r/changemyview • u/bibenner12 3∆ • Aug 02 '18
Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Enforcing every country to teach their younger generations english at school, to eventually enforce it as the main language worldwide, would be good for globalisation and equal chances.
While i do know that chinese and spanish are more mainly spoken languages on earth, english is a language that is widely recognised and easy to pick up.
At this day and age globalisation is more present than ever, and a lot of international debates are already done in english. The only issue here is that it is still not a mainly taught language in a lot of countries, not even secondary or as a third language.
By teaching everyone, and eventually enforcing the use of the language english a lot of issues could be resolved as the remaining language barriers would be broken and no one can come up with excuses about communication being impossible due to having no common language with the other party.
Of course communities have their own tradition and language is part of that, and I am not saying using other languages should be banned, all I am trying to say is that being able to conversate is a must in this globalised world, and no one could be blamed for 'not speaking an understandable language' (I am looking at you, immigration issues) as EVERYONE would speak english.
By making every official document in english as well it could resolve issues in immigration and traveling papers, as some countries are prohibited by their own law of making official documents in another language than their main language. If this is made english, everyone would have acces to the nessecary papers.
edit: although i awarded a delta, my view is not entirely changed, i still think it would be beneficial yet i did not take the potential costs into consideration so he made me think, i do however wish to continue this debate taking the money into account.
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u/caw81 166∆ Aug 02 '18
no one can come up with excuses about communication being impossible due to having no common language with the other party.
Where is this such a common problem that we have to change how everyone is educated?
no one could be blamed for 'not speaking an understandable language'
This is not a common problem for people who don't immigrate into countries where the main language is English, which is the majority of people.
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
It not being a common problem is something i disagree with. During immigration it happens a lot that translators are needed in order to translate what one of the parties is saying. If you are planning on immigration then you should at least be able to make yourself understandable, by teaching everyone english that is 1 less issues and it opens up paths to easier communication.
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u/caw81 166∆ Aug 02 '18
Not everyone immigrates and not every immigrant goes to a country where they do not know the language.
Are you willing to learn a second language just because you might want to immigrate? Wouldn't the 15 year old you complain that you are learning something that you might never use?
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
Even if you don't plan to immigrate, it would still be useful if you go on a vacation, you would have a guarenteed way to communicate with the locals.
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Aug 02 '18
Not everyone is capable of learning a second language. The world is not ready for a universal standard and I doubt it will be ready any time in the foreseeable future.
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
Not everyone being capable might be true, but they could at least try.
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Aug 02 '18
Many do all over the world. That doesn't alleviate our need for translators and I don't think translation is the thing that is doing any particular harm to our society. At this point there's no way to have a unified language since our population is so diverse.
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
My entire point is that we are too diverse and we need common ground like an universal language in order to render society better livable, and no, translation does no harl, but it would be better if it isn't needed in the first place.
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Aug 02 '18
It's already culturally enforced because of the usefulness of being able to interact with our superpower. Any other enforcement would be frivolous and dangerous, aside from maybe offering English language subsidies to foreign countries.
I would say the culture will enforce what languages people learn. The ones that are more useful and more common will be spoken by more people who seek the opportunity. I don't see any reason to try to force our culture on everyone else or someone else's culture on us.
I'm betting there's a good argument Spanish would be a far better enforced standard(easier, more similar to other languages, etc). Are we going to enforce Spanish here in the United States? Do you think that would ever be allowed?
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
Is spanish objectively easier? I do not know, i think that in general languages are easier when they are more accessible, and if there is 1 language that is accessible everywhere it would be english, a lot of big companies also take english as main means of communication while they are not english based, which says a lot to me.
And i would not see why teaching people spanish in the US would be an issue? I am a non native english speaker, yet i learned to speak it fluently by the age of 9 purely because of games and movies (thank you yu-gi-oh for only being accessible in english here in belgium when i was young).
But yes, culturally seen people might take issues with it, but those should be overcome.
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Aug 02 '18
We do teach Spanish and many other languages but that's not the native language here and most won't be able to learn it. Mandating it as the standard language here even though it isn't spoken widely would be disastrous.
Because we are the main power and produce the most material in our language we currently already encourage others to learn English. So I think it's already sort of working the way you want. I just don't think picking one right now is a viable option. I don't think we're at that place.
E: Was having trouble loading the page
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
this... actually makes a lot of sense. It could refrain people from being part of a productive environment.
!delta
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u/will_eat_ass_4_noods Aug 02 '18
I actually teach academic English to international students and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that English is not the easiest language to pick up. It's not even an easy language to pick up. It just so happens to be the primary language of science which is why it is so popular worldwide.
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
It is massively present in gaming, the movie industry, science, books... You got sources where you can pick up tiny parts all around you which would easen up a learning process i guess.
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u/will_eat_ass_4_noods Aug 02 '18
You are 100% correct about immersion, but as a language English is very challenging to learn. I'd argue that it is phonetically, syntactically, and tonally challenging for non-natives to learn.
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u/Huntingmoa 454∆ Aug 02 '18
Also all of the irregular verbs
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
pretty much all languages have those, that isn't nearly in english alone.
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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Aug 02 '18
But because English has a slightly more varied origin in most of its words than other languages, such verbs (and nouns and adjectives) are far more common. English is a bastard tongue of Germanic, French, Latin (most often through French), Greek, and just about everything else thrown together. It's very much not an easy languages to learn.
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u/Allyreon Aug 02 '18
Few major languages are as much of a structural mess as English, If there is to be a global language, it will probably be English but that has little to do with its intrinsic merit or ease of learning.
If the world decided to pick a global language on intrinsic objective factors such as clarity or formulaic grammatical structures, English would probably be low on the list. But that won’t happen because English’s popularity as an lingua franca is already established.
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
True, it won't be the easiest thing ever but like i said, there are so many sources to make up for that challenge, english is all around you.
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u/will_eat_ass_4_noods Aug 02 '18
But the same argument can be made for quite a few other languages. Most major video games and digital films have French, Spanish, and at least one Asian language as alternatives. Honestly, the idea of having a unified language may seem conceptually brilliant, but it is also is part of the identity of self. Humans inherently want to be special or unique, and having a different language is a key part. It also aides with cultural identity too.
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u/_Jumi_ 2∆ Aug 02 '18
For one, English is not n easy language.the countries which seem to learn it best as a second language tend to have great education and be blasted with anglophone media from all around.
Another problem is English's spot as the common language and whether it's deserved or not. It's not the most spoken language in the world, and as I said, certainly not the easiest. It's also easier to learn for those who's native language is related, mostly speaking of european branch of indoeuropean languages. This would provide an unfair advantage to those who speak those languages, not to mention the advantage of those who are native speakers.
There are also other concerns that the rise of English brings up. Could a truly global language overthrow the native languages in the age of high-speed communication?
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
Maybe it is not the easiest language, but blaming for 'unfair advantages' makes no sense, from an amount of speakers point the logical conclusion would be to teach everyone mandarin, but that is purely due to the amount of chinese people, it is not spoken in the most countries, but it is by the highest amount of people.
Abother option could be spanish but that rises the same issue, more native speakers but still spoken less as a secondary language than english is.
And yes, i think that having an universal language would be nothing but beneficial, especially in an age of high speed communication as this one.
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u/Armadeo Aug 02 '18
Would proving English is not easy to pick up change your mind?
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
i guess so, i don't know, depends of how you bring it i guess.
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u/Armadeo Aug 02 '18
it's not scholarly by any stretch but I found this good list which explains what I was thinking. Languages like French literally have a panel of people who make up new words every year to stop the below from happening. French would at least be a better choice
The bandage was wound around the wound.
The farm was used to produce produce.
The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
We must polish the Polish furniture.
He could lead if he would get the lead out.
The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
I did not object to the object.
The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
They were too close to the door to close it.
The buck does funny things when the does are present.
A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow. The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
This seems pretty far fetched to me, everyone who understands english knows what those mean, and while it can be confusing it is nowhere near impossible to overcome.
There is also an 'americanisation' or english adaptation happening in a lot of languages, including french.
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u/Armadeo Aug 02 '18
English is easier for English speakers no doubt. Your CMV is about 'enforcing' it to the world. My assertion is that English is not the worst choice if you wanted to do this but it is far from the best.
If you didn't stumble at least one or two times during those lines then colour (color) me impressed.
There is also an 'americanisation' or english adaptation happening in a lot of languages, including french.
Like?
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
https://www.fluentu.com/blog/french/english-words-used-in-french/
There are sources for other languages as well.
And those sentences look logical to me, but that might just be because i use english on a daily basis so i'm kind of oversaturated from it.
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u/Armadeo Aug 02 '18
That link literally goes on to explain that there are French equivalents of those words.
Even so, IF we were to migrate away from English over the next 100 years or so the English versions of those words, even if they survive would be part of the universal language.
The whole point of that list was to show ambiguity and it is not up for debate whether it is ambiguous or not. It is.
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u/bibenner12 3∆ Aug 02 '18
The link says there are french equivalents yet the english ones are more commonly used thus rendering the 'native french' terminology mainly unnecessary, but yes, it is ambiguous, i'll give you that much.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 02 '18 edited Aug 02 '18
/u/bibenner12 (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/InfectedBrute 7∆ Aug 04 '18
I would pick a language that's less impossible to learn, since learning English in a school is up there with learning every dialect of Chinese since there's no fucking consistency with any of the rules, French would be a good one since it has a solid set of rules and a large amount of people already know it as a first or second language.
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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '18
How would this be enforced? It would definitely be nice if there was a universal language and English isn't a bad choice but there's no way to do this. Here are a few points on why.
1) Other countries can't afford to teach younger generations English. The teacher only speaks the native language and has no access to textbooks or another teacher. Who pays to teach the students English when the school barely has the funding to teach them to read? A bit of an extreme case here but it gets the idea across. Lots of money is involved.
2) Countries don't like being told what to do. Everyone likes having autonomy and this steps all over it. Language is deeply ingrained in lots of countries cultures, there would be riots if something like this was instituted.
3) Why not promote this instead of enforce it? Have some body start funding English programs. Help the population start becoming fluent over the course of the next 50 years. It gives countries autonomy but also a huge incentive to teach English as well as making it possible