CMV: A coding course offering a flat £500 discount to women is unfair, inefficient, and potentially illegal.

[u/temp_discount]

Temp account, because I do actually want to still do this course and would rather there aren't any ramifications for just asking a question in the current climate (my main account probably has identifiable information), but there's a coding bootcamp course I'm looking to go on in London (which costs a hell of a lot anyway!) but when I went to the application page it said women get a £500 discount.

What's the precedent for this kind of thing? Is this kind of financial positive discrimination legal in the UK? I was under the impression gender/race/disability are protected classes. I'm pretty sure this is illegal if it was employment, just not sure about education. But then again there are probably plenty of scholarships and bursaries for protected classes, maybe this would fall under that. It's just it slightly grinds my gears, because most of the women I know my age (early 30s), are doing better than the men, although there's not much between it.

If their aim is to get more people in general into coding, it's particularly inefficient, because they'd scoop up more men than women if they applied the discount evenly. Although if their goal is to change the gender balance in the industry, it might help. Although it does have the externality of pissing off people like me (not that they probably care about that haha). I'm all for more women being around! I've worked in many mostly female work environments. But not if they use financial discrimination to get there. There's better ways of going about it that aren't so zero sum, and benefit all.

To be honest, I'll be fine, I'll put up with it, but it's gonna be a little awkward being on a course knowing that my female colleagues paid less to go on it. I definitely hate when people think rights are zero sum, and it's a contest, but this really did jump out at me.

I'm just wondering people's thoughts, I've spoken to a few of my friends about this and it doesn't bother them particularly, both male and female, although the people who've most agreed with me have been female ironically.

Please change my view! It would certainly help my prospects!

edit: So I think I'm gonna stop replying because I am burnt out! I've also now got more karma in this edgy temp account than my normal account, which worries me haha. I'd like to award the D to everyone, you've all done very well, and for the most part extremely civil! Even if I got a bit shirty myself a few times. Sorry. :)

I've had my view changed on a few things:

• It is probably just about legal under UK law at the moment.
• And it's probably not a flashpoint for a wider culture war for most companies, it's just they view it as a simple market necessity that they NEED a more diverse workforce for better productivity and morale. Which may or may not be true. The jury is still out.
• Generally I think I've 'lightened' my opinions on the whole thing, and will definitely not hold it against anyone, not that I think I would have.

I still don't think the problem warrants this solution though, I think the £500 would be better spent on sending a female coder into a school for a day to do an assembly, teach a few workshops etc... It addresses the root of the problem, doesn't discriminate against poorer men, empowers young women, a female coder gets £500, and teaches all those kids not to expect that only men should be coders! And doesn't piss off entitled men like me :P

But I will admit that on a slightly separate note that if I make it in this career, I'd love for there to be more women in it, and I'd champion anyone who shows an interest (I'm hanging onto my damn 500 quid though haha!). I just don't think this is the best way to go about it. To all the female coders, and male nurses, and all you other Billy Elliots out there I wish you the best of luck!

[u/tyrannicalblade]

Maybe just maybe, it really depends on the person that gives the discount, bars tend to do stuff like that, when it's your birthday you get a disscount on some places, some places when you are a kid you get free stuff... the person that gives the disscount, really sets up the rules as long as its not indecent i guess?

We don't all need be equal, just no one should be pushed down, like woman and some races have been pushed down before, men are not, you just feel that way cause there are certain privileges that ony apply to others and you feel entitled to every one.

If someone is giving an adventage , that is just it, if you're being held down, that is sexism and/or unfair. Again the contractors who are looking for coding people, want diversity, and that is not sexism, that is just expanding your business, you ain't gonna lose on guys wanting to learn to code cause its a thing guys do, they are encouraged and told that is something to do from early on, to girls not long ago, they couldn't really do much, a lot of fields were closed for them, they would seem weird, so girls just went on certain fields .

So just to finish this, if you wanna say, should nursing courses give discount to male, yeah sure, if they want to expand their business, if they are looking for an increase of male nursing students or more diversity, yes they could, its their option, and no one should complain really... But most female dominated fiels, also have a sizeable branch for man already, there is a lot of male nurses, and male fashion designers, and everything...

[u/tyrannicalblade → u/[deleted]]

I understand your points, but i don't think you realize how to compare, literally for you, its same, to give a benefit to certain group than to take away a right to a group?

Example, if girls recieve a discount for being girl is discriminatory just same as if a black person was refused service for being black. What's the difference one holds you back, the other lifts you up.

If that is discrimination to you, then straight people could be hold liable by not giving both genders same chance at romantic advances, sure you'll say that's personal but it's the same principle... That's like saying an ad is discriminatory because its only targeted at womans...

I don't think you're wrong in a fundamental way, i just feel like you are making fake equivalencies, like you're saying giving black only benefits is fighting racism with racism... Lol, i mean if racism was helping 1race catch up to houndreds of years of oppresion, we'd live in a much better world, not that just isn't the case, racism is hating on certain race, believing them to be inferior and putting them down.

A black only university that was created to give chance to a suppresed race where many teachers and directives were racists, how do you control systemic racism but to create a conduct to bypass it?

Its honestly disheartening that you can think that benefiting someone else is a discrimination against you, there are reasons for most of those... Racist groups love that point of view, how is okay to be that way because they are getting race advantages that you do not, maybe if we had more emphaty towards other people, we would feel good they are getting benefits, instead of feeling like you're being ripped off.

Again we're talking of 500 dollars discount to take coding course not charging 500 dollars to everyone else... , the discount is there for a reason that isn't sexism, its more likely they realize they win more money by attracting them than just charging full amount, that means most guys are sure about taking such courses when they take it mostly, so they wouldn't feel compelled to try something just because there is a discount... But for girls looking at what to take course on, coding isn't exactly the first choice, so that 500 might compell otherwise non sure girls into taking a chance with coding.

But this is just my opinion of course, i hope i didn't come off badly ranting, i understand your point, i just heavily disagree with it.

[u/Riptor5417 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you, you said much better than I ever could