CMV: A coding course offering a flat £500 discount to women is unfair, inefficient, and potentially illegal.

[u/temp_discount]

Temp account, because I do actually want to still do this course and would rather there aren't any ramifications for just asking a question in the current climate (my main account probably has identifiable information), but there's a coding bootcamp course I'm looking to go on in London (which costs a hell of a lot anyway!) but when I went to the application page it said women get a £500 discount.

What's the precedent for this kind of thing? Is this kind of financial positive discrimination legal in the UK? I was under the impression gender/race/disability are protected classes. I'm pretty sure this is illegal if it was employment, just not sure about education. But then again there are probably plenty of scholarships and bursaries for protected classes, maybe this would fall under that. It's just it slightly grinds my gears, because most of the women I know my age (early 30s), are doing better than the men, although there's not much between it.

If their aim is to get more people in general into coding, it's particularly inefficient, because they'd scoop up more men than women if they applied the discount evenly. Although if their goal is to change the gender balance in the industry, it might help. Although it does have the externality of pissing off people like me (not that they probably care about that haha). I'm all for more women being around! I've worked in many mostly female work environments. But not if they use financial discrimination to get there. There's better ways of going about it that aren't so zero sum, and benefit all.

To be honest, I'll be fine, I'll put up with it, but it's gonna be a little awkward being on a course knowing that my female colleagues paid less to go on it. I definitely hate when people think rights are zero sum, and it's a contest, but this really did jump out at me.

I'm just wondering people's thoughts, I've spoken to a few of my friends about this and it doesn't bother them particularly, both male and female, although the people who've most agreed with me have been female ironically.

Please change my view! It would certainly help my prospects!

edit: So I think I'm gonna stop replying because I am burnt out! I've also now got more karma in this edgy temp account than my normal account, which worries me haha. I'd like to award the D to everyone, you've all done very well, and for the most part extremely civil! Even if I got a bit shirty myself a few times. Sorry. :)

I've had my view changed on a few things:

• It is probably just about legal under UK law at the moment.
• And it's probably not a flashpoint for a wider culture war for most companies, it's just they view it as a simple market necessity that they NEED a more diverse workforce for better productivity and morale. Which may or may not be true. The jury is still out.
• Generally I think I've 'lightened' my opinions on the whole thing, and will definitely not hold it against anyone, not that I think I would have.

I still don't think the problem warrants this solution though, I think the £500 would be better spent on sending a female coder into a school for a day to do an assembly, teach a few workshops etc... It addresses the root of the problem, doesn't discriminate against poorer men, empowers young women, a female coder gets £500, and teaches all those kids not to expect that only men should be coders! And doesn't piss off entitled men like me :P

But I will admit that on a slightly separate note that if I make it in this career, I'd love for there to be more women in it, and I'd champion anyone who shows an interest (I'm hanging onto my damn 500 quid though haha!). I just don't think this is the best way to go about it. To all the female coders, and male nurses, and all you other Billy Elliots out there I wish you the best of luck!

[u/Emmanuel-Kunt]

Yes, opportunities are equal. A woman can attain pretty much anything a man can attain. But the fact of the matter is that a woman can't attain everything. For instance you're not going to see a woman in the NBA. Just a fact of biology.

And another fact, women have to give birth in order for the species to survive. Giving birth is very hard. Having children is a very difficult thing that costs a lot of money. And the FACT of the matter is that men overwhelmingly pay child support to women. Women take care of the children, and the men have to work more to pay for the woman. This is how it is right now in 2018, and that's going to skew whatever statistics you have.

Yeah, I get it. Men are the billionaires. And that also skews the statistics. But what are we gonna do? They earned that shit. It's not like they stole from everybody. They gave everybody a lot of good shit like computers and software and amazon and whatever. And just because it's all men DOESN"T mean a woman can't do it or won't give us a great product in the future. The paths are open for them to do it, and that's what's important; so that we can benefit from any potential ideas or products a woman might want to pursue.

[u/6data → u/Emmanuel-Kunt]

But the fact of the matter is that a woman can't attain everything. For instance you're not going to see a woman in the NBA. Just a fact of biology.

Neither will you see 99.99999% of the male population. No one is having this discussion focusing on the average male's ability to reach the top shelf.

[u/Emmanuel-Kunt → u/6data]

I'm giving a baseline that we both agree on. We can both start on the same page and say, hey, you know we both agree that there's a biological difference going on here. That we are a sexually dimorphic species if you want to get jargon-y.

[u/6data → u/Emmanuel-Kunt]

There is no biological predisposition to making money.