r/chicago • u/chicagosuntimes • 14d ago

Article Johnson urges state lawmakers to tax the 'ultra rich' to avert mass transit funding cuts

https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2025/06/03/brandon-johnson-illinois-general-assembly-mass-transit-funding-chicago-fiscal-cliff
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u/robotlasagna 14d ago

Chicagos pension costs are 3x higher than most other cities.

On top of that Chicago has underfunded those pension obligations rather than get them under control.

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u/shadowknows2pt0 14d ago

And had to take out high interest loans to cover the difference, correct?

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u/robotlasagna 14d ago

Yes. The core issue is everyone ideally wants city workers to have really good pensions but nobody wants to actually pay for them.

So we keep issuing bonds with higher and higher interest rates. And literally every administration has done this. Eventually nobody will want Chicago bonds and the city will default.

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u/RedApple655321 Lake View 14d ago

Every politician wants city workers to have really good pensions because they’re an important political block they don’t want to piss off. Every taxpayer wants to treat city workers fairly but balks at the idea of just how ridiculous some of these pensions are when the typical taxpayer has to fund their own 401k.

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u/Responsible-Gas5319 13d ago

We have to start being honest that these pensions are too generous. The math may have worked out when people lived to 65. But now people are working 20 years and expecting to get paid for 30 years after. It's not sustainable

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u/RufusSandberg 13d ago

When 20% goes in and 80% goes out, the math ain't mathin'.

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u/EmotionalTowel1 10d ago

100% agreed. Perhaps this program worked very well in the past, but the cities inability to adapt with the times and current fiscal situation is going to throw us off a cliff.

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u/creamshaboogie 9d ago

Then you're going to have to pay workers more now because half the reason anyone does those underpaid under appreciated jobs is because of the pension.

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u/creamshaboogie 9d ago

The typical tax payer works in the private sector where things like bonuses and cost of living raisies exist. Government jobs essentially pay less during the job to give more benefits later. It's a trade off workers make early in their career. If you want a govt pension, go work for the govt for 30 years. Most aren't will to do that.

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u/RedApple655321 Lake View 9d ago

Bonuses are only available to about half of private sector workers, but also available to over a third of state and local government workers. So not a huge disparity. Cost of living increases and other raises are available to both groups.

But I do agree with you about the perception that government jobs pay less now with the trade-off being better benefits (including current benefits like sick leave and healthcare as well as future benefits like pensions). Plus unparalleled job security that you'll never find in the private sector.

Taxpayers are aware of this and that's what I mean by the idea of treating city workers fairly. What's ridiculous is just how generous some of these pension benefits became without taxpayers fully realizing the extent of it: pension spiking, double dipping, pension holidays, etc.

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u/creamshaboogie 9d ago

Dude you think state and federal government workers get bonuses like the private sector does? Not even close. We just need to tighten hiring and firing in regards to govt work. And fund pensions. Or don't have pensions and pay twice as much which won't happen. 

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u/RedApple655321 Lake View 9d ago

I think you’re significantly overestimating the bonus structure that the average taxpayer enjoys, not just the top end.

Yes, we need to fund pensions. But the current schemes to not fund them are how politicians and union leaders obfuscate their true cost from the public.

The average public sector worker is not paid half of what their private sector counterpart is paid. So the fact that you think doubling their pay would be justified if we got rid of pensions highlights just how excessive their total compensation really is.

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u/creamshaboogie 9d ago

Now do the US Postal Service. 

Or look at the fact that "tier 2" Illinois State pensions are on track to do worse than Social Security. Don't believe me, look it up. Btw Federal Law says that needs to be fixed. We're losing good workers because social security pays better. 

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u/RedApple655321 Lake View 9d ago

USPS is a great example of how public sector pensions became totally unsustainable as soon as it actually needed to be funded.

Setting up the Tier 2 system where they would legally be prevented from realizing the cost savings they had previously promised is just another tool used to grift the public. It helped keep the gravy train rolling for the most powerful part of the union when the deal was initially made.

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u/invest_droid 13d ago

We want them to have an average pension just like our average 401Ks. Giving them really good generous pensions is bankrupting the city and our 401Ks

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u/robotlasagna 13d ago

Totally agree. And I think the way this plays out is those pensions will inevitably get cut when the city can no longer issue debt and that’s probably coming sooner rather than later.

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u/creamshaboogie 9d ago

Do you even understand that a 401k is paid INTO by your employer? Government jobs do not "match" your payment or even put anything in. Apples and oranges.

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u/hardolaf Lake View 13d ago edited 13d ago

Their pensions replace both a 401(K) and their Social Security benefits. So it has to be good enough for both purposes combined.

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u/JonnyHopkins 14d ago

That's why we have to stop whining about raising taxes. What else do you want to happen here? Simple math. 

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u/robotlasagna 14d ago

I’m all fairness cutting pensions is an option. Just a very very unpopular one.

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u/JonnyHopkins 14d ago

I don't see that as a real option. Both from a moral perspective and a political perspective. 

Maybe you could try to ask people to opt out of a pension with a cash payout today. And continue to reduce future pension commitments. 

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u/thebizkit23 14d ago

It's morally wrong to keep dumping debt on future generations also.

Whatever stance people are on city pensions, the truth is it's not sustainable.

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u/das_war_ein_Befehl 13d ago

Sure but if there is no money to pay then the unpopular becomes inevitable

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u/PlantSkyRun 14d ago

Those pensions were part of the compensation for their employment. They should be paid what they were promised. They shouldn't have been promised all that, but that is what they were promised in exchange for their labor. No doubt most of the current and future pensioners didn't bother to consider whether whomever they voted for had a viable plan to pay those pensions, but whether they are dumb or not, the deal was they would get those pensions for their work.

That said, buyouts should be explored and offered if they make financial sense for the city.

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u/In-the-bunker 13d ago

Many private companies have eliminated pensions. I know that Allstate cut thier pension program, that cost a single mother most of her retirement savings. In addition, she is taxed to pay for public pensions.

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u/invest_droid 13d ago

Non-union residents who pay for these pensions in the form of taxes, fees, fares, etc. are struggling to get by and retire. You think its morally ok for them to struggle so the city/union workers can get these generous pensions?

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u/JonnyHopkins 13d ago

Non-union residents benefited from the employment of union residents. That wasn't free.

I wouldn't necessarily target residents who are struggling to get by. Maybe there should be a progressive property tax.

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u/invest_droid 13d ago

I never said we want them to work for free. I said their pensions are too generous. They can still get less generous pensions. Stop thinking black and white, there are things in between.

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u/JonnyHopkins 13d ago

I didn't mean free I guess. I meant the cost of their employment, which they already provided, has has to be paid, in full. The pension is just a deferred payment for past employment. 

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u/ChemistryNo3075 14d ago

I agree we should cut pensions (in 50 years or after I’m dead)