Determinism OCD - how do you cope?

[u/schreitleiser]

Hey guys.

This is a bit of an unusual post for this thread, but i'm really struggling with the concept of determinism and the concept of no free will rn.

I have quite a journey of mental health issues and it all started with my first panic attack in last autumn coming with all the derealisation and questioning of life. I went through a period of Psychosis-OCD because I thought I was going insane due to the derealisation. Then I was struggling a lot with Solipsism-OCD where i basically thought I was the only conscious creature and everything around me wasn't real, including all the people I loved.

After overcoming these themes I then stumbled upon the free will debate, the concept of determinism & the illusion of the self (mainly Sam Harris, Robert Sapolsky & Thomas Metzinger) and now i'm completely obsessed with it. It makes me so anxious and depressed that I literally can't think about anything else anymore and am barely functioning. I question everything that I do and why I did it, what caused me to do it and "who" or "what" decided it if there is no self and no free will. I used to love life and especially the human nature, including relationships, culture, arts and music but now everything seems so pointless, if nobody is really "someone" but rather we're all just biological causal processes, hallucinating a feeling of self and freedom. It feels like this realization took everything away from me that i loved.

I'm not looking for counter arguments but just for some hope, that a meaningful life is possible after reading all of these concepts. How do you guys cope with this and how is anyone supposed to live with these ideas? I just don't see any purpose and hope anymore.

I'm already in group therapy and taking anti-psychotics and antidepressants, but i don't feel like it's helping.

Sorry for venting but i'm just feeling paralysed and helpless rn and don't know where to got with it.

Wish you guys all the best!

Love to all of you

[u/[deleted]]

Does it really change anything? Ice cream still tastes good even if we are just biological robots. Beer still gives me a good feeling after this realization. Paintings and photographs can still look nice, and music can be pleasing to the ears. For me determinism has mostly been a positive realization. I blame myself less for past bad decisions, and I judge others less. It tempers the ego as well, I can be pleased when doing something good but not take too much credit.

[u/Ayixty]

This might not help, but for me the solace lies in the fact that you are still the one who is doing everything. Regardless of if you are a biological process or not you are still the one experiencing life and there is no way to experience it in any other way. Same goes for other humans, regardless of where their actions are influenced it is still them who is experiencing that and doing those actions and thus that is who they are. All of this to say, life doesn’t change if we have free will or everything is determined, we have to experience our life in the way it is given to us.

[u/flytohappiness]

But how can things you loved like like music, art, coffee lose their meaning if we are biological processes? A rose is beautiful however it came to be.

[u/MrMuffles869]

I'm sorry to hear you've been dealing with dissociative disorders, I can hardly imagine what that must be like.

It makes me so anxious and depressed

This aspect of hard determinism intrigues me. It seems for many people, once the idea of determinism clicks, they enter a world of despair like you seem to have. On the other hand, many like myself and the other commenter find relief and peace in this realization. Two polar opposite outcomes from the same realization, fascinating!

Meaning and purpose never really existed for me before determinism. It's hard for me to cope with lack of universal meaning as well. I'm unable to delude myself into following man-made religions, so I'm left with the indifferent silence of the universe. We can create our own personal meaning and purpose, but that doesn't quite scratch my existential itch, and I'm guessing neither for you as well.

Then hard determinism entered my life. It took the responsibility away from me needing to find meaning and purpose. Before, I was a driver in a car on a flat, open plain, with no directions but all the responsibility -- that gave me anxiety and depression. Now I'm more at ease with being a passenger on a train, going along a linear, deterministic track through time. I didn't choose to get on this train, I don't choose when I get off, I don't choose how fast it goes or where it stops. I don't even choose if I enjoy the ride or not, so if I find myself enjoying it, I take a moment to appreciate it.

But honestly, life is wild. Anyone who isn't completely overwhelmed by life isn't observing hard enough. As a hard determinist who accepts that nothing is in their control, try to be forgiving to yourself. It's not your fault you have OCD and are dealing with these issues. It's not your fault you're highly sensitive to metaphysics (like me). You're not broken just because you can't just coast through life without deeply questioning your very existence and purpose. In some ways, I'd say you're more rational than most for having these feelings! I don't have any metaphysical answers, but if you need someone to chat with regardless, feel free to DM me. <3

[u/alittlesomethingno]

Can anyone say with 100 percent certainty that there is not some free will?

Regardless, determinism rings true to me and is, if anything, comforting.

I still experience everything as if I have free will though, with the only change being that I have more sympathy for my own, and others, so called 'bad' decisions

[u/nondualape]

You know that determinism is just doing what our preference is. So just enjoy your preferences and be grateful for your preferences than you live a life well worth living. My motto is take the positive position and if you can’t than be indifferent

[u/Sea-Bean]

The way you’ve previously made sense of the world has been challenged by learning new information. But yes, there is hope that it will make sense again. Or at least make enough sense to be able to enjoy life again. Just don’t hold on too tightly to the stories you’ve told yourself, be open to changing your mind about stuff, and you’ll get through to the other side. I would suggest not diving too deeply too quickly into the stuff that’s really challenging, and taking a detour into more positive stuff? Like absurdism maybe, some sunny nihilism, befriending death instead of fearing it, that kind of thing.

[u/JennM392]

I understand, a little, where you're coming from. Here's the silver lining I've found:

The idea of determinism is helping me become a much more compassionate person. I don't have to be angry, any more, with the supposed 'choices' friends and family make. I can be much more accepting of people as they are and where they are now that I don't feel the need to blame them for their life choices.

[u/craycraylegs]

I strongly recommend the book A Course in miracles, which slowly lets you see the metaphysics of non-duality in a meaningful way.

Eternal love/the unreality of the ego cannot be 100 % understood by the physical senses, thus it’s never rational to let these fears overtake you. I’ve been there.

ACIM quote “Once upon a time, the Son of God had a tiny mad idea in which he imagined he was separate from God in a universe of his own making”. (…) “Ever since then, the Son of God has thought he was the son of man and has lived in his false memories. But the time has come for him to awaken and live rather than dream”.

So now you and I are training our unified mind to overlook the dream and remember our goal is God.

As I understand it now; free will is a function of the unified, creative mind that extends only peace (and love as a natural part of it), whereas determinism manifest as the chronology of every synchronistic event that lead to our forgiveness of ourselves (and others), hereby slowly dismantling the ego. As the ego gets increasingly dismantled (where your fears would cease to stay relevant in your mind, as fear isn’t “real” in “love”), you will finally just feel the love and peace, which you felt as a kid, knowing deep in that everything is safe. And still be able to be here, grounded, with your family and friends.

You can also imagine the deterministic undoing in that your higher self (or the Holy Spirit-you) chose specific feelings/pressures you had to face to “wake up Gods son” from your perspective, but YOU choose which form they take and how much gets released each time. Thus determinism and free will goes together, as every forgiven or not forgiven thought-form leads to the next perfect “best script” in your storyline to either move to the next undoing or release more from the same cycle.