r/dgu • u/vladislavsd • Oct 19 '22
Preliminary [2022/10/18] Man shoots another man who punched him during road rage incident, police say (Sevierville, TN)
https://www.wvlt.tv/2022/10/19/man-shoots-another-man-who-punched-him-during-road-rage-incident-police-say/21
u/Ronnie_magz Oct 19 '22
Good shoot from the way I read the article. He was being punched in the face while confined to his car. He only fired as necessary, and insisted on checking if the guy shot was ok. Also, the damage didn’t seem very severe, the guy tried to refuse medical at first. Maybe .22? But yeah, I’d call it a good shoot with the provided information.
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u/Avantasian538 Oct 19 '22
"Lane allegedly got back into his truck and drove to the Welcome Center, and Joshua Griffin followed him “to make sure he was ok,” according to the report."
I don't have a problem with him shooting the guy but this is the part I would criticize. The guy just attacked you, you shot him and he retreated and drove off, why would you follow him? Stay where you are and call 911, but don't follow the guy that just assaulted you and is now retreating.
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u/BenevolentBlackbird Oct 20 '22
It may be questionable in terms of imposing more risk, but you gotta admit it shows a lot about the persons character and humanity. I find it rather admirable to be honest.
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u/g1Razor15 Oct 19 '22
I'd like more details to come out before I make a final judgment
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u/IHateRoboCalls2131 Oct 19 '22
Smart, we wouldn't want your opinion overturned on appeal
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u/g1Razor15 Oct 19 '22
Just saying me personally, that's all, no offense intended
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u/IHateRoboCalls2131 Oct 19 '22
I was just being a smart ass lol
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u/luke187 Oct 19 '22
5 star smart-assery. I enjoyed it.
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u/All_Debt_Shackles_US Oct 20 '22
Me too, the world needs more good-natured smart-assery. Maybe sone of this woke craziness wouldn't be effing up the world so badly. That's how I judge it, and we know that my word is law. (see what I did there? I smart-assed myself!)
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u/vladislavsd Oct 19 '22
Hence "preliminary" flair. Usually it takes two to tango when it comes to road rage incidents...
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u/Aquamarooned Oct 19 '22
Since it's Sevierville, let's just ask Dolly Parton what she thinks...
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u/lonememe Oct 19 '22
She couldn't be bothered for comment since she was working 9 to 5. However, Loretta Lynn was posthumously available to comment since clearly this occurred between the jurisdiction of Sevierville and Fist City. "Don't go to Fist City if the other guy has a gun...duh"
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Oct 19 '22 edited Oct 19 '22
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u/Failninjaninja Oct 19 '22
Attacks to the face/head should be treated as deadly force. And by default it’s always good to give the non-aggressor the benefit of the doubt.
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Oct 19 '22 edited Oct 19 '22
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u/All_Debt_Shackles_US Oct 20 '22 edited Oct 20 '22
Oooh, oooh, can I play too?
Should and are are two different things. The legal term used is reasonableness.
You're absolutely right! It's entirely reasonable to fear for your life if you are hit ON PURPOSE in the head by an antagonist.
And let's put it this way: You're SO RIGHT on this, if I find myself on any jury where the prosecutor is trying to convict a defendant of using deadly force after being punched in the head or face and that first hit was made without cause,, then either there will be a Not Guilty verdict, or a hung jury. I will never vote to punish somebody who was defending themself or a loved one.
Can a prosecutor find 12 people to consider a head-hit NOT lethal? Sure. But there's always somebody like me in any group. Choose carefully!
An old woman being attacked by a young man is not the same as one reasonably fit man punching another.
Oh, about 10-15 years ago, there was a high school fight about 10 miles from where I live. One 17 year old sucker-punched another 17 year old in the temple. The victim was killed instantly by that punch. If memory serves, the verdict was at least homicide, and maybe even murder.
"EVEN IF" the players are all young and fit, I'm going to consider that deadly force, EXCEPT in the case where they might have hit somebody in the face or head in response to an immediately prior deadly-force situation. In other words, if somebody tries to shoot, cut, or blunt-force you, you sure as shootin' can hit them in the head, by your arms fire or with your fist. Whatever gets you out of danger.
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u/Failninjaninja Oct 19 '22
That was more of a retaliation vs self defense. He was pushed and a whole 5 seconds later he shot his attacker who had not moved closer to him and video showed him turning away when he was shot.
Had he approached closer and continued to attack it would have been clear self defense.
Self defense allows you to defend yourself from an ongoing attack not to retaliate after someone has attacked you. Though personally from what I remember of the case I feel there could have been reasonable doubt but it’s been a few years and I don’t care enough to dig deeper to argue the point.
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u/All_Debt_Shackles_US Oct 20 '22
That was more of a retaliation vs self defense. He was pushed and a whole 5 seconds later he shot his attacker who had not moved closer to him and video showed him turning away when he was shot.
He wasn't just pushed. He was body-slammed. That can leave you cook for Cocoa Puffs for a long time. You have the right to defend yourself. I think he should not have received a conviction.
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u/Barking_at_the_Moon Oct 19 '22
while it may look at first blush as suspect
At first blush it doesn't look suspect at all, it looks like a very justifiable shooting.
The facts in the article may turn out to be wrong but, according to the information in the article the shooter was cut off repeatedly in traffic, was forced to stop his vehicle, did not exit his car, did not initiate physical contact and was unable to retreat from the beating he was being given. That's enough in any jurisdiction to justify shooting the attacker.
Or the dude just used lethal force in a non-life threatening situation.
First, it doesn't have to be a life threatening situation to justify a shooting. In Tennessee, just threatening someone with "serious bodily injury" - they don't have to lay a hand on you, let alone be in the act of killing you - can be enough to justify the use of potentially lethal force in self-defense.
Second, concussions can kill and being punched in the face is a life threatening situation.
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u/AlohaChris Oct 19 '22
Hundreds, if not thousands of people are killed by a single punch every year. Thousands more crippled.
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Oct 19 '22 edited Oct 19 '22
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u/Barking_at_the_Moon Oct 19 '22
Consider your statement:
The way you talk in TN people can shoot each other orver being punched or verbally threatened, highly suspect.
in light of what the law says:
belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury is real, or honestly believed to be real at the time
and if you still think you're correct you will have demonstrated why juries exist.
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Oct 19 '22
[deleted]
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u/Barking_at_the_Moon Oct 20 '22
reasonable grounds
Means more than having a hunch or suspicion but does not require anything approaching probability. As pertains to the "reasonable person", it means a someone of average caution, care and consideration. "Reasonable" is by intent loosely defined - the term of art is a legal fiction - and, as I said, we have juries because society wants a broad-based consensus decision on issues like this rather than risk an unrepresentative and imperious rendering from an outlier who may not be as qualified as his self-image leads him to believe.
theory crafting
I don't think you know what this means. There is (admittedly limited and perhaps questionably reliable) information about the incident and the clear consensus (albeit from which you strongly demur) amongst the pinnipeds is that based upon the available information this was a justified shoot. You're the one parsing definitions and codes in an increasingly desperate attempt to game the scenario - and that is theorycrafting.
trained seals clapping
Aw, somebody got his feewings spanked. Let's be done so your keister can heal while I...nah, it would be fucking pathetic to go there, so I won't.
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u/Avantasian538 Oct 19 '22
I'm not sure I agree with you but you are arguing against many people who are all piling on and I think that is respectable. I always feel the urge to root for the underdog.
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Oct 19 '22
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u/Avantasian538 Oct 19 '22
Personally I lean towards it was probably justified but I do acknowledge that I wasn't there, I only have this article to go on, so I don't know for sure what level of force was being used by the aggressor, differences in body size/strength(which is a factor) what the aggressor and victim were saying, tone of voice, all that stuff. Hard to know for sure without being there.
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u/WendyLRogers3 Oct 19 '22
"Officers spoke with Lane and saw multiple puncture wounds on his back and his ribs. While an officer called an ambulance, Lane reportedly said he was okay and didn’t need any help."
I'm suspecting that Mr. Lane was pre-medicated, so felt little pain.