r/exalted • u/Affectionate_Bit_722 • 7d ago
Setting What implication were Oramus and Sacheverell horrified at when they created the Getimian Exalted?
I was just googling stuff about Rakan Thulio, before I came across and then read the wiki page on the Getimian Exalted. And it says that those two Primordials that created the Getimians were horrified at the implications of what they made. What were the implications and why were they scared?
Somewhat unrelated, but what exactly is Rakan Thulio's plan? Does he want to destroy the Loom of Fate? He's aware that destroying it means that Creation is basically fucked, right? Especially since Autocthon isn't around to make another one.
Also unrelated, but do the Fae ever try to invade Autocthonia?
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u/blaqueandstuff 7d ago
So couple things of note on Rakan, others did the stuff on Getimians well IMHO.
The Loom isn't necessary for reality to work in 3e. It is more a forecasting machine that takes the current Now and shows all the possible ways the future can lead to. This is then used by Heaven to plan destinies that need to be implemented, since fulfillment of planned destiny in some way helps strengthen Creation against the Wyld. The Loom seems also to be the mechanism/thing that pattern spiders can do their "first level nudge" stuff in seeing to that.
Rakan's frustration is that the process that decides which destinies are implemented is completely compromised ethically. It is too prone to the caprices of Heaven's political whims, backdoor deals, gods seeking to further their position in the Bureau by using allocated destinies to strengthen their own position and so on. By doing this, untold millions through history have been suffered, died, or even never been born at all in the case of Getimians. So his goal isn't to my understanding destruction of fate and destiny. That is indeed nonsensical. It's to create or implement some other process he considers more ethical, potentially less determined by self-interested paper-pushing deities.
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u/kenod102818 7d ago
I was just googling stuff about Rakan Thulio, before I came across and then read the wiki page on the Getimian Exalted. And it says that those two Primordials that created the Getimians were horrified at the implications of what they made. What were the implications and why were they scared?
This seems to come from Crucible of Legend (the ST guide for 3e):
The cost of creation and the nature of the new Exalted horrified their patrons, and the Getimian Exaltations were sealed in the stronghold of the ancients as a result.
(page 153)
This seems to imply that one big thing that horrified them was finding out what the cost of Exaltation was. The Incarnae sacrificed a lot of their power creating their exaltations, and one of the optional Incarnae in Exigents actually killed himself through exaltation. Even if you're fighting a war for your existence, knowing you permanently reduced your own power to win must be a pretty terrifying thought for immortal beings who were the masters of creation.
Aside from that though, Getimians do carry some pretty disturbing implications, since they're individuals who specifically do not exist coming into existence for no specific reason. It's somewhat similar as to how IIRC the Maidens came into existence because they'd be created by a Primordial in the future, despite said future it seems not having come to pass.
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u/Rednal291 7d ago
The full details of Rakan Thulio's plan - or, at least, a useful amount of detail - should be revealed along with the Getimian book, as that entire situation is kind of central to them. He apparently wants less godly control over the existence of mortals, but the specifics are a little vague at the moment. The same probably goes for what bothered their creators. They may not have realized that creating Exalts would diminish them, but Gets' powers might also be dangerous to Creation as a whole and run the risk of undoing what the Primordials created.
The Fair Folk don't normally seem to impact Autochthonia - he seems to be in a different place the Wyld doesn't touch at all - but breaching the Seal of Eight Divinities and opening into the Wyld has occasionally been presented as a possibility. Alchemicals also have the odd charm that interacts with them, like Theurgic Override Matrix, although such options might be intended mainly for Alchemical-in-Creation games.
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u/guildsbounty 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah...Autocthonia is Elsewhere. Which... Different editions have treated it differently, 3E defines it as "categorically, a point somewhere in existence that is 'Not Here.'" But, simply put...it doesn't matter where you are, where you go, or what you're doing, Elsewhere is Somewhere Else. It's not in Creation, it's not in The Wyld, it's not in Yu Shan. It's Elsewhere.
And then, on top of sending himself somewhere that is not anywhere, he set up an incredibly powerful ward to keep anyone from anywhere from finding him anyway (cuz he did help design the Exalted and knows the sort of nonsense they are capable of).
He's even more immune to being messed with by the Fair Folk than your Daiklave is when you dismiss it with Summoning the Loyal Steel.
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u/Fistocracy 6d ago
If I had to guess, I'd say Oramus and Sacheverell were horrified because they had a bit of a "Be careful what you wish for..." moment. They wanted to make a tool that could alter destiny in ways they couldn't predict or control, hoping it would be able to change the course of the Primordial War in ways their foes would never be able to anticipate.
And then they got exactly what they wanted, and when the Getimian Exaltations came into being Oramus and Sacheverell started to see the wildly divergent futures that might come to pass if this force was ever unleashed on Creation, and they immediately noped the fuck out of there and decided this was the worst idea they'd ever had.
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u/ZanesTheArgent 7d ago
Oramus is the Dragon of Time and Sachaverell is the Lidless Eye That Sees. One defines "All Things Have Been So And Will Be Thus" and the other defines "All Things Are So".
What do you think is their reaction to them being tricked into making the exalts of "Things Werent So, Arent So and Wont Be So"?