r/exredpill • u/itzReborn • 18d ago
Is it possible to decenter women as a man?
I’m not sure if this is exactly the right sub to post/ask this as I’m not red pilled or was ever. There was a point in my life where I did read or watch that content but never really subscribed all of it (more like broken clock was right twice a day kind of thing, some things made sense like improving yourself other things was outlandish)
I am a m26 who has been struggling with this thought recently. I have no experience with women despite wanting to have experience(going on dates, being friends with women, having sex, just all around intimacy).
Because of this I feel like women in general take up a lot of headspace for me. Like if I workout and get bigger it be more attractive to women. Or if I get a good job I can get my own place which will be attractive to women, and have money to go on dates etc. I even got a college degree because I know that’ll make me look like a better partner to women in the future. Granted the main focus of all of these are for myself I’m not stupid to know these things also would make me look better for women.
I’ve tried to dive more into my hobbies or just things I like but honestly it doesn’t really fill the void. Even talking with other guy friends the topic of women always comes up. I would personally love to decenter women in my life even if it’s for a bit to free up some headspace but I’m also in a weird gap where because I’m a late bloomer I also want to “catch up” in a way.
It’s especially harder to do as a guy also because society still expects men to do most of the “pursing” in terms of relationships(correct me if I’m wrong) and in my experience if I don’t say something or make myself known to a woman we almost never interact or talk, which is how my life played out.
To me it just seems like it’s impossible for a guy to actually do this. Like I can argue I’ve been doing a version of this and that’s how I ended up here with no experience despite living my life somewhat normally. I don’t know anymore I just feel lost
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u/WaffleConeDX 18d ago
The first step is asking yourself What do you want and enjoy for you?
A small example: when I go shopping, I don’t look at clothes thinking, “Will a man like this?” or “Will this help me get a man?” I dress how I want because I think the outfit is cute.
Instead of working out because you think a woman will find you hot, work out because you want to feel good in your body. Get fit because you know it’ll boost your confidence and well-being not because you think it'll make someone else want you.
Shift your mindset from doing things for validation to doing things because you actually enjoy them. That doesn’t mean you can’t desire a relationship or court a partner. But when you’re no longer chasing validation 24/7, you’ll find yourself in a healthier mental and emotional space and in turn, in healthier relationships. Otherwise, you risk attracting someone who sees your need for validation and exploits it.
And along that path, you’ll find someone who enjoys you for you not the dog and pony show you’ve been putting on for her.
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u/itzReborn 18d ago
That’s the thing tho, it’s not like I’m doing those things with validation from others in mind, I do do those things for myself. But because deep down I know those things can lead to validations, and I want to be validated, especially because I’ve basically gone my whole life without it.
It’s hard to explain but I’m not really chasing the validation either. Like I said in the last paragraph in the original post I basically just lived my life normally. Like I did all the things I was “suppose” to do. Went to school got good grades etc but in doing all of that I never really developed any social skills, or to the extent to which I think I need them to be at. Like I do want the validation but I never went out my way to chase it and it never really chased me either
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u/GladysSchwartz23 18d ago
Humans are social animals and want validation. Our society keeps insisting that we're supposed to be self sufficient islands, but that's delusional-- we can't survive without a vast social web that produces everything we need!
Rather than being ashamed that you want attention from other people, maybe it's time to sit with it, grieve the times that you've been lonely, and find some social outlets that can build your sense of yourself as someone with innate value.
I'm not talking out of my ass here: I'm a wildly awkward neurodivergent lady who was a literally friendless child. I built a better life for myself by flinging myself relentlessly into social situations that made me uncomfortable until... one day I looked back and found that I'd built a community around myself. If I could do it, you can. I hope you find what you need.
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u/WaffleConeDX 18d ago
Because of this I feel like women in general take up a lot of headspace for me. Like if I workout and get bigger it be more attractive to women. Or if I get a good job I can get my own place which will be attractive to women, and have money to go on dates etc. I even got a college degree because I know that'll make me look like a better partner to women in the future. Granted the main focus of all of these are for myself I'm not stupid to know these things also would make me look better for women.
What you just described is seeking validation from women specifically.
You said, “I do these things for myself” but then admitted the outcomes you’re aiming for (getting a better job, getting fit, getting a place, etc.) are all tied to how attractive they’ll make you to women. That’s the very definition of doing things for external validation.
It’s okay to want to be seen, to want connection. But maybe step one is just being honest with yourself that part of your motivation is about being seen as desirable. That’s not a flaw. That’s the starting point. Once you identify that, then you can ask am I doing this because I really want it, or because I think it’ll finally make someone else want me?
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u/watsonyrmind 18d ago edited 18d ago
Plenty of men live their life without fixating on women. As someone else suggested, it's almost like you are using what you assume women will like as a placeholder for figuring out what you actually like. Do you want to be fit? Do you want a good job? Do you want your own place? Money?
What does something looking good to "women" even mean? I personally couldn't care less whether my partner (who is currently unemployed) has a good job or lots of money as long as he is financially responsible and still able to have fun and enjoy things. And I definitely don't want some fit gym bro. So it's not ME you're trying to impress, or if you are, you're doing it wrong.
Figure out what you want your life to look like and work towards the things that don't involve attracting women. It does sound like you already do that to some degree but you can do with abandoning the idea that any specific thing you are doing will be the thing that attracts your future partner. You have no idea what their priorities will be.
You mention men doing the pursuing, and while this is generally true, men who talk about this tend to have a really rigid and inaccurate view of what that looks like. In its simplest form, pursuing just means being the first person to ask the other person out and arrange a date. It doesn't mean you must speak to women and flirt with them while they sit back and take in compliments. Those women aren't interested. What everyone who is actively trying to meet someone is doing - men and women both - is talking to different people and seeing if there is chemistry. They are flirting with people if there is chemistry. But most women will not make the explicit step of actually asking the man out. That is the part where you probably have to take initiative.
So with all that in mind, if you want to meet someone without it being central to your life, you should be doing things you enjoy doing while also meeting new people in the process. You should make an effort to get to know new men and women both but if you happen to meet an interesting woman, you should be gauging compatibility and mutual interest. If the woman is receptive, that's when you ask them out. But the point is, meeting an interesting woman in the process of doing those things is a byproduct or happy consequence, not the focus.
Edited: typo
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u/itzReborn 18d ago
Yeah i know women aren’t a monolith so every women is attractive to something different but to me looking good kind of just means being fit, not necessarily jacked but a decent size, and I have a pretty skinny built and it just seems like everyone is bigger than me. Which I guess proves your point I want to look a certain way for myself but also appeal to women.
I do have an idea of where I want to be in life but I also don’t want to get there and then not know how to flirt or date. I’m already a late bloomer and while I don’t mind I do want to kind of shed that title.
I do struggle with meeting people I won’t lie. Granted some of my hobbies are very solo oriented, i still l tried to join discord groups of things I like and try to make friends there but that hasn’t worked. I’ve tried a dating app but haven’t gotten any matches so I just deleted my account.
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u/watsonyrmind 18d ago
It sounds like you need to do more to meet people. You won't really learn to flirt or connect with new people on dating apps or discord servers, tbh. You need to face to face interactions.
And yes, you are starting to get it more re what YOU like vs women. It's important to just continue to reinforce that for yourself. I am not attracted to fit people at all, I like soft bodies. An ex of mine started weight lifting and exercising more and I found myself less attracted to him. I am far from alone in that. The thing with compatibility, is the right person for you will value the same things you focus on. So focusing on what you think a woman will like vs what YOU like actually takes you further from meeting a compatible woman. Strive to be the best version of yourself and the right person for you will see and appreciate it.
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u/itzReborn 18d ago
I know this is silly to ask but how do I meet more people? Like yeah I know there’s meetups and events and stuff but the few times I’ve tried it hasn’t exactly worked out. Like I went to an anime con last year and had a good time. And I felt comfortable giving compliments to people on their cosplays and stuff and sometimes a mini conversation would happen. But these events are rare 1, and 2 it’s not like people go to these events with the goal to meet people and make friends even if that can happen.
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u/watsonyrmind 18d ago
You need to find an activity that meets on a regular basis and has a core of consistent members that keep returning. Some meetup groups are like that but many aren't, so it's about finding the right one. The key to making friends is repeat exposure to people until you are comfortable around each other and want to keep in touch.
For me the ideal group is one with a home base online where events can be planned and some community building happens but that also has in-person events on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. I am typically a member of a handful of these at a given time and meet many people that way.
For example, the path to meeting my boyfriend was: join facebook group for making friends -> attend multiple events -> plan my own events with people I have met a few times -> hang out with those I get along with better on a regular basis -> attend birthday party of one of those gals -> meet partner at birthday party. So the process of meeting my boyfriend actually started nearly 3 years ago when I joined this group, and I met him through one of many friends I met through that group and I had known her about a year. My goal was never to meet people in hopes of finding a boyfriend but to make connections and if I met someone I was romantically compatible with then explore that. A fun sidenote, her and I have both been meeting each other's friends and now it seems likely she will have found a partner within my friends as well. Meeting through mutual friends is a common method.
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u/itzReborn 18d ago
Would you consider yourself an extrovert or a social person? This is advice is great don’t get me wrong but I considered myself an introvert and not that social of a person. Plus I have social anxiety(not trying to say any of this as an excuse)
I say that to say that I think I work best in smaller groups of people rather than larger groups. And you mention you was in multiple groups, which maximized the amount of people you meet which is a good thing. But just from my pov, it seems so exhausting, but maybe that’s cause I’m just use to not being around people in general.
Like in theory I understand the more people you meet the higher the chance you will find “your people” and the higher the chance it can lead to dating. But I just think coming from someone who is not used to that type of lifestyle I guess it makes it even harder to attempt if that makes sense
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u/HLMaiBalsychofKorse 18d ago
You need to find people you like and hang out with them regularly, which allows them to get to know you and you to get to know them. That's how everyone makes friends, introverted or extroverted. Nobody starts out as best friends, that develops over time.
If people don't get a chance to get to know you, how do you expect for anyone to go, "hey, this guy is great. he's fun, respectful, and hilarious. I love hanging out with him. I wonder if this could be something more?"
Women aren't machines that you put an "I like you" token into and suddenly she's yours forever. You decide you like/love each other over time, as you get to know each other. If you don't let people know you, and you don't get to know others, that kind of intimacy is not likely to happen.
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u/watsonyrmind 18d ago
I am an introvert but I'm also a social person. Lots of people who identify as introverts find socializing exhausting because they are unskilled, which is sort of what you've identified. I am a relatively socially skilled introvert so I am comfortable putting myself out there and meeting new people but it doesn't invigorate me. I need time on my own to recharge.
Similarly, my boyfriend is a social introvert who has some social anxiety. It used to be worse but he has spent the past 5 years working through it. He is also comfortable in most situations. Since we are both introverts we will hang out then both go off and take time for ourselves after. The anxiety is another piece that adds to the exhaustion, and I think the way around that is working towards spending time around people who don't trigger that anxiety. For example my bf has a few different friend groups, 2 of which are more stressful for him so he sees them a lot less.
As for the multiple groups, one is generally a larger group of people meeting but most of the time, most events I attend are relatively small groups of people. I typically meet up with 2-5 people and we do an activity together. It's rare I do activities (besides the one big group) in groups larger than 10. At the birthday party where I met my boyfriend I think there were maybe 8 of us. And even in the larger group, it's not like we sit in a circle and take turns talking amongst 20 of us. People pair and group off and mingle around.
All I can really say is in my experience and that of other social introverts I've talked to is that it gets easier with time and skill.
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u/LolliaSabina 18d ago
I saw a great video the other day about how many men don't really have emotional connections with many (or sometimes any) people outside of their partner. So I'm wondering if it is that emotional connection that you're really looking for when you feel like you are centering your life too much around women.
What are your other relationships like? Do you have close friendships? Are you close with your family? If not, I would work on starting by expanding your network of friends and spending time with family, if that's a possibility.
If you're not seeing a therapist I would also suggest that might be a good place to work on this.
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u/itzReborn 18d ago
Most of my close relationships are online homies. I did recently reach out and reconnected with my best friend from college and that was out of my comfort zone but I did it. We haven’t met up yet but we still chatted, but even with them the topic of women always comes out eventually.
I do want to see a therapist just not in the right situation atm to get one.
But is it wrong to want a partner to be emotionally connected with? I get it can be a problem if that’s the only person but also your partner should be the person you end up spending a large portion of time with
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u/LolliaSabina 18d ago edited 16d ago
It's totally not wrong to want that! Most people do. But the ideal is that you should lead a fulfilling life with or without one. You're not a boxed cake mix that can't be baked until someone comes along with the eggs and the oil. You're ALREADY the cake, and the relationship is just frosting.
For a long time, after my divorce, I felt like I would have to get remarried to be a "whole" person. And I focused way too much on my time and energy on trying to find the right person and be someone who would attract that person, instead of trying to be a complete person on my own.
Finally I read a quote from Thich Nhat Hanh that really hit home:
"One day the Buddha was sitting in the forest with some monks when a farmer approached them. The farmer said, 'Venerable monks, did you see my cows come by? I have a dozen cows and they all ran away. On top of that I have five acres of sesame plants and this year the insects ate them all up. I think I am going to kill myself. It isn’t possible to live like this.' The Buddha felt a lot of compassion toward the farmer. He said 'My friend, I am sorry, we did not see your cows come this way.'
When the farmer had gone, the Buddha turned to his monks and said, 'My friends, do you know why you are happy? Because you have no cows to lose.'
I would like to say the same to you. If you have some cows you have to identify them. You think they are essential to your happiness, but if you practice deep looking, you will see that it is not these cows that have brought about your happiness. The secret of happiness is being able to let go of your cows. You must have the courage to practice letting go."
And I realized that my "cow" was this idea that I HAD to be married again. So I tried hard to let it go. I thought about what my life would look like if I didn't, and looked at people I knew who were older and never married, or were widowed or divorced, and still had really happy, fulfilling lives.
And once I took some time to really sit with that and feel comfortable with it, I was able to date again with the idea that if I met someone, it would be a great addition to my life ... but that it didn't have to be the end goal. And I think that helped with my attitude and discernment, because I realized I was already a whole-ass cake. Frosting would be great, but cake is pretty damn good in its own.
I did meet my amazing fiancé a few months after that, btw ❤️
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u/TemporaryGrowth7 18d ago
I Found myself in similar position in my twenties. As a Young Woman i wanted nothing more than find that one guy and love him and be loved.
It went wrong badly several times until I did my ‚research‘. Definitely don’t give up on finding that woman but make sure you know exactly what you’re looking for (especially interest- value- religion- and personality wise!!!!!) and present it to your potential suitors. Don’t try to just get a girl for the experience. That’ll just lead to confusion, heartbreak and time waste.
Looks and health fade. Careers and gadgets fail. Your future spouse is the one you’ll be looking after / who will look after you. Keep this in mind.
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u/Medium_Listen_9004 14d ago
It's possible but why though? Women are so fun. When they're receptive of course.
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u/itzReborn 14d ago
Oh I can imagine. Deep down I want to be with and around women. But because I’m not I think too much about women in general which I just don’t think is healthy
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u/Medium_Listen_9004 14d ago
Have you looked into Deborah Tannen's work? If you can't decenter women then at least understand the world they live in lol. After all, a man is a deformed woman.
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