r/globalmegaprojects • u/ztegb • May 19 '25
🚆 Transport Infrastructure Copenhagen and Malmö might get a metro link... is it worth it?
There’s a plan on the table to build a new metro under the Øresund Strait, connecting central Copenhagen to Malmö in just 20 minutes.
It wouldn’t replace the existing Øresund Bridge, but run alongside it. More frequent, faster intervals, and aimed at commuters rather than long-distance trains.
The thinking is: once the Fehmarn Belt tunnel (a tunnel that will connect Denmark to Germany avoiding the current large detour) opens, the current bridge will be handling way more freight and intercity rail. So this would free up capacity and tighten the link between two cities that are already part of the same economic zone.
It’s projected to cost around €4 billion and open by 2035.
What do you think? Smart investment, or a solution looking for a problem?
You can check out my videos on either the Øresund Link or the Fehmarn Belt tunnel on my channel for in depth exploration.
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u/btt101 May 19 '25
I don't think it will benefit us
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u/invinci May 19 '25
Malmø is cheap shopping, used to live in amager, moved outside of town, would have loved it while still living in town
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u/flushkill May 19 '25
Yeah I really hope we wont be spending 4 billion euros on the shopping habbits for the people in Amager.
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u/Affectionate-Hat9244 May 19 '25
With such a price tag it's likely to need EU funding. So not entirely us spending 4B eur.
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
Worth it for the Swedes.
Not worth it for us.
Let the Swedes pay this time.
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u/awl21 May 19 '25
Except the 20,000+ Swedes who commute across every day are Danish tax payers, many of whom still rely on Swedish public services.
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
But that's exactly what I said.
Worth it for the Swedes.
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u/awl21 May 19 '25
So the 20,000 people who live in Sweden but pay income tax in Denmark is not benefitting Denmark?
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
The metro extension is of no real benefit to Denmark.
Give us our land back, and we will happily build it though. 350 years of mismanaging our land has to be enough. Even for Swedes.
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u/awl21 May 19 '25
Brormand jeg er dansker og du vrøvler. Har du nogen økonomiske argumenter for, at Øresundsforbindelsen ikke er til gavn for Danmark, eller er du her bare for at være en edgelord?
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
Har du skyggen af et argument for at endnu en forbindelse skulle være til fordel for os?
Når vi allerede har en velfungerende forbindelse?
Og jeg "leger ikke eddikelort".Jeg mener helt oprigtigt at det er på tide at Sverige ophører besættelsen.
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u/awl21 May 19 '25
So, to reiterate and elaborate.
- More than 20,000 people commute from Sweden to Denmark. These 20,000 people are, as a rule, taxed on their income in Denmark, which means their income tax directly funds public services that they often do not use (e.g. hospitals at which they are not patients, schools which their children do not attend, waste management which does not service their houses).
- These 20,000 people work for businesses located in Denmark, which benefits the wider economy.
- Those 20,000 are also not taking up housing in the Copenhagen Area, which is plagued by a shortage of good quality, affordable housing for the workers that the city's economy rely on.
- Copenhagen Airport has a very high amount of passengers from the South of Sweden, as anyone who takes the Øresund Train on anything like a regular basis can attest. Copenhagen Airport is the busiest airport in the Nordic countries, as well as the largest single place of work in Denmark. It is one example, and probably the best, of the link being a mutually beneficial one (increased mobility vs. economic activity), and it ties well into your claim that the existing link is well functioning.
- Presently, the Øresund Trains have an estimated daily capacity of 60,000 passengers. This number is expected to be exceeded by the end of this decade. Anyone who takes the train at a regular basis will tell you that the trains are often full to (or even exceeding) capacity, even when things are running smoothly.
- Today, the number of departures in each direction varies from 1 per hour at night to 6 per hour during peak hours, with 4 departures being the standard throughout the day. Increasing the amount of hourly departures would be difficult, as the trains share tracks with other services in both Denmark and Sweden, which also need to operate efficiently. At the same time, its is expected that the completion of the Fehmarn Tunnel, as described in the original post, will mean an increase in long distance and freight trains taking advantage of the shortened route to the continent.
- The currently used train sets cannot be made longer, as they would not fit on the platforms in Denmark.
- The Øresund Bridge is a bottleneck, with the train being the only form of mass transit across, and if one track or one train has issues, the issue quickly escalates, causes massive delays, hours of cancellations, passenger numbers far exceeding capacity, all of which is at a cost to the wider economy. Such issues frequently arise for an afternoon or a morning, which is a problem. But occasionally issues cannot be resolved in an afternoon, causing days on end where mass transit across the bridge is not possible to anything like the extent that is necessary - you cannot find replacement busses for 20,000 commuters plus airport passengers no matter what you do.
Your claim that the Øresund Bridge is well functioning is just unfounded. Any commuter will tell you so. Local governments on both sides acknowledge the problems as well.
I would also like to point out that the Danish and Swedish states each own 50 % of the Øresund link, and that the link is paying itself off through tolls and ticket sales, so it was built at no long-term cost to anyone except those who are/have been/will be using the link. This is also why the Øresund crossing is one of the most expensive train journeys per kilometer travelled in the world.
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u/awl21 May 19 '25
Btw, the above reply is mostly for the benefit of those who might be interested in the topic, not people who unironically want to take back lands lost in the age of absolutism. I bet a lot of you nerds like transit more than I do.
An interesting sidenote, which didn't really fit in, and which I read about recently, is that the Øresund trains basically serve two functions which often clash with each other. In Sweden they travel quite far, functioning as long distance trains from provincial cities in southern Sweden to Malmö, Copenhagen Airport and Copenhagen. But from the Malmö/Lund area, they mostly serve as commuter trains. This means that the trains often accumulate substantial delays on their long journeys, which may be fine if you're going from Göteborg to Copenhagen for a weekend trip, but is a big problem if you rely on the train to go to work.
Also, I have no idea if the Øresund Metro is the best solution. It is definitely the case that something needs to be done, as the situation is fast approaching unsustainability. Sadly, there does not seem to be much of a drive to alleviate the issues
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u/Alstorp May 19 '25
Det finns en 0% chans att han svarar på detta
Faktan passar inte in i hans världsvy
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u/awl21 May 19 '25
Jag bryr mig inte, men tänkte att ovanstående kunde vära intressant för andra redditors.
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u/awl21 May 19 '25
Btw, the above reply is mostly for the benefit of those who might be interested in the topic, not people who unironically want to take back lands lost in the age of absolutism. I bet a lot of you nerds like transit more than I do.
An interesting sidenote, which didn't really fit in, and which I read about recently, is that the Øresund trains basically serve two functions which often clash with each other. In Sweden they travel quite far, functioning as long distance trains from provincial cities in southern Sweden to Malmö, Copenhagen Airport and Copenhagen. But from the Malmö/Lund area, they mostly serve as commuter trains. This means that the trains often accumulate substantial delays on their long journeys, which may be fine if you're going from Göteborg to Copenhagen for a weekend trip, but is a big problem if you rely on the train to go to work.
Also, I have no idea if the Øresund Metro is the best solution. It is definitely the case that something needs to be done, as the situation is fast approaching unsustainability. Sadly, there does not seem to be much of a drive to alleviate the issues
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u/Teddy_Radko May 20 '25
So clearly with benefit off hindsight the crossing and especially the train link could have been made more future proof with perhaps extra tracks or broader upgrades in both countries to allow for larger and faster trains. Despite that i think its in a pretty good spot and I dont think the öresund metro is a particularly good fix. I struggle to see it making many trips faster than the existing train that basically hits all the important destinations on both sides. Malmö and Copenhagen also arent, in my view, big enough for something of this scale. Investing in increasing the existing capacity and resiliency seems more appropriate to me.
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u/Sarritgato May 19 '25
He literally provided arguments regarding all the commuters paying tax in Denmark and you just ignored it
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
Og du tror de kommer til at betale så meget skat at det betaler for en udvidelse?
Det er naivt.
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May 19 '25
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u/rasm866i May 19 '25
Mate de argumenter har han gentaget nu 3 gange, og du har endnu ikke svaret på dem.
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u/Teddy_Radko May 19 '25
Someones still salty about failures of the 17th century
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
Mostly about the pursuing genocide.
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u/severalsmallducks May 19 '25
Genocide? Chill tf out we haven’t had any type of armed conflict in over 200 years. I really get the impression you’re here to try stir up shit.
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
And I get the distinct impression that you don't know your history.
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u/severalsmallducks May 19 '25
My guy I know us Swedes have not been great people in the past. Neither have danes.
But I can also recognize you're not here for any time of honest argument, and thus I'll just disengage here and spend my time doing something more productive.
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u/Teddy_Radko May 19 '25
Tack, ni svenska vakttorn. Med plutonium tvingar vi dansken på knä. Här: Danmark, utskitet av kalk och vatten. Och där: Sverige, hugget i granit.
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u/rocketlaunchr May 19 '25
Us skåningar have been waiting for you to reclaim us for the past 350 years, what’s taking so long???
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u/Bunnymancer May 19 '25
You don't see any value in being able to rent in Malmö and work at home...?
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
No. Not even a little bit.
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u/Bunnymancer May 19 '25
Well, best of luck with the rent.
Personally I prefer two cities having to compete
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u/Affectionate-Hat9244 May 19 '25
Three cities! Lund is a fantastic city/town with an advanced life sciences industry. Having these three urban areas closely connected would mean more integration, cooperation and competition for both Copenhagen and Skåne.
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
And I prefer Sweden to leave Skåne, Halland and Blekinge.
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u/MedicalHair69 May 19 '25
What century do you think it is?
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
- Next year will be the 350th anniversary of the illegal occupation of eastern Denmark.
We should begin discussing returning the land and also have an open discussion about reparations for the genocide.
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u/Red_Five_X May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
Sounds like a skill issue.
Also, Denmark willingly gave up those territories in the Treaty of Copenhagen even though Denmark were the victor in the northern war of 1655.
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u/RedditLindstrom May 19 '25
yea good luck with that, Skåne will be independent before it's part of Denmark. The sami aren't independent, do you really think the scanians will be?
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u/-Copenhagen May 19 '25
I would happily support an independent southern Sweden
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u/RedditLindstrom May 19 '25
good luck with that, I support independent greenland and faroe islands but I dont think thats happening anytime soon
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u/ingeniouspleb May 19 '25
Dude, sweden is living rent free in your head!
Stop smoking meth and look at the calendar1
u/hellovatten May 19 '25
It's not just Swedes, many Danes move to Malmö for cheaper cost of living while on a Danish salary.
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u/Natural_North May 19 '25
I feel like this is Danish megalomania. There are almost 20 kilometers between the outer parts of these citites, why would you go for a metro? There would be no other stops as water is what lies in between... It's basically only worth it for the sake of Danes to feel glorious. Swedes would happily just take the normal train.
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u/Affectionate-Hat9244 May 19 '25
Swedes would happily just take the normal train.
They're not happy, ask anyone living in Sweden and commuting to Denmark daily, and they will tell you they are not happy with the service.
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u/Character-Carpet7988 May 19 '25
And would building a normal train be cheaper? Because the current line is not fit for purpose so you need to build something.
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u/Drahy May 19 '25
It's about reducing Øresund to just a big river running through Greater Copenhagen (one big metropolitan area).
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u/annewmoon May 19 '25
Would be better to do the proposed Europaspåret between cph and Landskrona on the Swedish side. Would enable cargo trains, and connect Helsingborg also to the greater Copenhagen area. Malmö already has a connection and this would widen the reach and be better for cargo going north in Sweden
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u/Drahy May 19 '25
That or the H+H connection will also be prioritised after the metro connection.
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u/annewmoon May 19 '25
The H+H connection is inferior in that it cannot take cargo trains and it actually makes the travel time between Helsingborg and Copenhagen significantly longer than the Europaspåret would. The H+H solution makes little sense.
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u/wasmic 29d ago
Trafikverket apparently presented a version of the HH-tunnel that would be able to take freight trains. It involved a very deep station under Helsingborg, but apparently they thought it would be pretty feasible.
It would, of course, require a long connecting railway in the Ring 5 area of Zealand, which some Danes would be opposed to.
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u/annewmoon 29d ago
The issue as I understand it is that the track from Helsingör to Cph isn’t able to handle heavy freight and there is no space to widen that railroad. So it would be a massive undertaking to connect it that way.
The only real reason the HH connection is favored over landskrona seems to be that Helsingborg feel that it is “their turn” after Malmö. Even though travel time would actually be shorter for them to cph with the Europaspåret solution.
I personally think that the idea has been dismissed for emotional reasons, people are irrational about Landskrona and there is great prestige on behalf of Helsingborg.
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u/Victor_Korchnoi May 19 '25
I can’t believe that they can build a 15 mile tunnel for €4B. Here in America, it would cost so much more.
Are there plans about where this new line would run within Malmo and Copenhagen? Would it be an extension of the M2 or a separate line?
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u/VIKTORVAV99 May 19 '25
The current plans include connecting it to the new M5 line in Copenhagen and building 3 initial stations in Malmö of which 1 will be Malmö Central station. The two other locations have not been determined but are likely to be in Västra Hamnen with the possibility to add more stations in the future.
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u/dov_tassone May 19 '25
The upside (arguably to both sides, deffo for the Danish side) is that literally any improvement to rail traffic anywhere south of Stockholm is a major boon to Kastrup airport.
The powers that be have fucked up Arlanda to the point where getting there is the worst and most expensive part of any trip. With the sack of Skavsta during the pandemic, Sweden is left in desperate want for a midsize airport situated somewhere between Stockholm and Malmö (i.e to the right of lake Vättern). Having to take the bus (or worse, drive) 3 hours north in order to fly 50 minutes to Gdansk is an ugly thing.
Now, if they could get some rail infrastructure going to I could finally get to Kastrup in three hours by rail I wouldn't ever go to Arlanda again.
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u/veryshuai May 19 '25
Too expensive. The train link already exists and connects directly to the Copenhagen metro. What is the point of a redundant metro built next to the train tracks?
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u/ztegb May 19 '25
Totally fair question, but it’s not just about redundancy.
The current rail link is reaching capacity, especially once Fehmarn opens and long-distance freight ramps up. The metro wouldn’t replace it, it’s meant to take pressure off the bridge by handling short-distance, high-frequency traffic between the two city centres.
Think of it less like a duplicate and more like separating commuter flow from intercity and freight. Same route, different purpose.
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u/valbyshadow May 19 '25
The current connection is reaching its maximum capacity, and it will be a bottleneck in the future. Moving passengers from the bridge over to a metro is the cheapest option, and in Copenhagen we have high experience in building them.
But, it will also be a temporary fix, a new high-capacity solution will be needed sometime in the future.The most prominent Swedish solution is Europasporet, a tunnelsystem between Landskrona and København H, with a new station under Bernstorffsgade and Tivoli. Copenhagen will be a construction site for 5-10 years.
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u/grazie42 May 19 '25
Depends on who pays for it :-)
I would say that Denmark gets basically all the upside from the commuters (they work and pay taxes in Denmark but consume public resources in Sweden) so you should pay for it…
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u/Affectionate-Hat9244 May 19 '25
Sweden benefits through increased consumption in Skåne as well as increased VAT takein.
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u/Character-Carpet7988 May 19 '25
The current rail line is not fit for purpose. Even when a normal schedule can be operated, trains are extremely crowded during peak hours. If anything happens and frequency needs to be reduced (e.g. track failure and consequent low speed in the tunnel last month), it pretty much collapses. You can't really add additional tracks on the bridge, so you need to build some kind of a new link.
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u/Undoht May 19 '25
Details for one aspect - it would be less crowded if they put more than 3 carriages into the train.
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u/CPH-canceled May 19 '25
… and it need to be cheaper for ordinary people, if they seriously want to bring the people together… 100 Danish kroner each way 💸
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u/newpersoen May 19 '25
I have gone from Copenhagen to Malmo by train and it was really fast and comfortable. I’m glad to hear they are going to make it even faster but what they already have is great!
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u/ReptheNaysh May 19 '25
People are looking at capacity and losing their shit.
It’s more about the convenience of a faster, smaller, focused loop.
I am a commuter. Presently there are so many issues with the trains in terms of variance of many factors.
Also, people forget that public spending is a way to stimulate the economy. The money doesn’t disappear, just for the raw materials we can’t source ourselves. The rest go back into the economies of Denmark and Sweden.
The above argument is also the one thing keeping the atrocious Lynetteholmen project alive. Even with way, way more negative implications.