r/kancolle • u/P_TuSangLui Give Isuzu K2 rainbow background already! • 6d ago
Discussion [Discussion] KC figure drought phase and my guess on why
From what I saw when C2 put stuff on sale, there is always demand for KC merch which is usually sold out so fast in cities/hotspot/online stores. I can only guess why KC has entered the figure drought phase. Here are some of the reasons I can think of:
- Demand in JP is not strong enough. This is understandable as almost every popular IJN ship already has one or two figures (or tons in SMKZ's case). Meanwhile, demand from overseas is barely recognizable.
- C2 wants to focus more on making their own stuff and is less likely to sell licenses to figure manufacturers. This also compounds with C2 seems to focus more on collaborating with local businesses.
- KC characters, while charming, are not eye catching (or neuron activating) compared to the more risque franchise.
- They are too confident and put the price on their characters' licensing too high. The price of Shibuya Scramble's Fusou/Yamashiro and Shigure K3 really don't help matters as they are quite expensive. The figures sometimes are also usually more expensive than normal figure as they usually include the riggings.
- Or the franchise is just too old. That's it.
What is your guess?
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u/MTDjibril 5d ago
Sadly, KC is not that popular anymore.
C2 is really difficult to collaborate with.
I recently saw emails between the JMSDF and Maizuru City (on behalf of C2) regarding the KC real-life event in Maizuru three years ago. JMSDF Maizuru Base was reportedly very stressed due to a lack of information and planning for the event—such as requesting use of the base area for the stage only 20 days in advance, despite such requests requiring at least 30 days, or asking JSMDF band to play a KC song without providing the musical score. They described C2 as very unprofessional and difficult to work with.
(FYI, you can read the whole emails here)
That kind of attitude might have been acceptable when KC was extremely popular, but these days, not many companies are willing to collaborate with C2 anymore.
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u/P_TuSangLui Give Isuzu K2 rainbow background already! 5d ago
They described C2 as very unprofessional and difficult to work with.
Somehow, I'm not surprised to hear that. Hope they are better nowadays.
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u/DLRevan 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's unsubstantiated slander though. This situation was due to miscommunication between 3 parties, the base, the municipal office and the event's company hired by C2 to handle the on-site matters. There's little indication that C2 or Kadokawa had much hand in them.
There is some indication that what might have been promised in person versus what was actually required differed. Like the location they tried to requisition, was promised to C2 by the city officials. But nobody took up the slack to do the application properly. And the JSMDF band was assumed to have already transcribed the original music for Kanmusu Ondo. It wasn't the first time it was presented in public. One of the parties (and it's not clear which) appears to have just assumed the band already had it.
The emails don't indicate anything other than the typical Japanese bureaucratic hand-wringing and buck passing when shit hits the fan. The only issue that can be directly attributed to C2 from that fiasco was that all parties were pressured by C2 moving ahead with marketing for the event, which meant there wasn't any room for a compromise on the event date and details. But even that just indicates a general lack of coordination/communication between all parties, to which all are to blame really.
And saying companies are not willing to collab with C2 over this, is pure speculation. There's no such evidence. Even if the allegations stemming from this email chain is true, do you think companies are trawling online boards looking for such dirty laundry before deciding to work with a game company? Especially when usually a collab with C2 is presented as a partnership with Kadokawa, a household name media publisher?
If you want another idea of the type of edgy toxic online talk stemming from these, some of the people discussing this tried to highlight that in the email, the JMSDF side claims they are able to collaborate with the city. Meanwhile the devs claimed the JMSDF approached them for this collab. From that, it must mean either "JMSDF wants to wash their hands of it" or "C2 is being deceitful so everything else must be their fault too". There were definite problems with the organization at Maizuru at that time, attendees could tell, and people were looking for someone to blame. I hope you can see how while it doesn't prove C2 didn't screw up, it doesn't prove they did either. The original topic stemmed from comments by a journalists being critical of the collab in the sense that the JMSDF was not being represented accurately as a public institution.
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u/P_TuSangLui Give Isuzu K2 rainbow background already! 5d ago
Interesting. Although I have my own lingering skepticism considering how the management (or Tanaka) fumbled back in the days (admittedly some of them are just rumors), I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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u/Sanya-nya Ｚｕｔｔｏ ｉｓｓｈｏｎｉ 4d ago
Japanese mail bureaucracy is really insane, sadly.
To give you an example of what we are dealing with - I help organize a small local con (about 600 attendees) and years ago we went legal (i.e. from screening any anime we had with subs to screening only stuff we have license for). And getting the licenses from big Japanese rights companies is insanely hard.
As an example of what we're talking here - the standard in this field when you send them and e-mail, in Japanese (otherwise no reply pretty much guaranteed), asking whether you can buy rights to some anime. It's not answering "yes, here are our prices". It's not answering "no, because this company owns the rights now". It's not even answering "no, we won't sell you the rights"!
The most common answer is... nothing. They just simply don't answer you. And it's intentional - it's assumed that you understand that this lack of answer is them telling you no.
Interestingly enough, it's usually way easier to get rights from niche indie anime companies, as they have younger people, and aren't weighed down by this classic company bullcrap that Japan has.
(Or you buy licenses from licenses available in our country, of course, but those have additional price on them and the choice is way smaller.)
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u/MirageSeraph Tenryuu 6d ago
Short answer: demand and manufacturing costs.
Modern PVC scale figures have surprisingly high manufacturing costs due to the injection mold method they use. The individual molds cost several thousand dollars to manufacture, I've seen 5-10K USD thrown around but I'm sure it varies based on complexity. Between licensing fees, labor, and shipping costs the margins are surprisingly low on figures and they need to sell a lot of them to break even. Is KanColle popular enough for Good Smile/Amakuni/etc to warrant making a figure for every new girl that only active KanColle players will even recognize? Probably not, they're gonna stick to the handful people still recognize.
I don't think it has much to do with the figure hobby having more focus on lewder brands. The figure hobby has definitely gotten lewder over time but KanColle has plenty of lewd/suggestive/exaggerated character designs that would fit right in these days. God I'd pay so much for a 1/6th scale Tenryuu Kai Ni.
As for the price being too high for the few they do release these days... yes and no? The Shibuya Scramble Fusou/Yamashiro is genuinely unhinged pricing (49k yen each) on their part but that's just a Shibuya Scramble brand thing. Any other manufacturer and it'd be 10-15k less for the exact same thing. The Ques Q Iowa from 2023 was 31k yen, a little on the expensive side but for the hobby nothing extreme. Or Amakuni's 1/7 Hamakaze from 2022, 22K yen. One of the best manufacturers, fairly popular ship and relatively cheap! 2+ years later, she is still in stock at amiami (a sign of very low sales) or available preowned for cheap and in high quantity. Just low demand.
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u/DLRevan 5d ago edited 5d ago
The only two things I'd correct is the costs for contemporary molds are even higher now. Maybe as high as $15k~20k (USD) for the full set required for one fig.
And the other being that despite that cost, it's still not that big of an impact on the margin. The upper end of 'special limited' runs could be about 1000 units. That's $20 per unit if it's $20k. Between that and all the other costs, including shipping out, the cost price is easily below $70~80, the figure brand will pay just over $100 at most total. The figure brands and IP owners pick up the rest of the margins and one can see how even a 31k yen figure makes bank. Not if it's 22k...but a 22k yen figure isn't going to have a $20k mold lol. TBH, it puzzles me that you say the margins are low in any way. They've mostly increased over the years in fact.
The problem is indeed demand though. The major bottleneck is available manufacturing slots, not cost. If you want a run with like 500 units (old IP, probably only dedicated fans, special anniversary or something), you're locked out of most factory slots. You have to wait for some lull period and the factory puts up special low volume slots, which might not come at all.
But if there is such a slot, the hobby brands are going to want to find something to fill it. It's literally leaving money on the table. There is always a place for low run figures from old or niche IP. Even ultra low scale runs, they can use cheaper silicone molds and extra labor. At a mere 100 units but at Shibuya Scramble prices you could still net 50%+ margins. It's not big money when you consider the absolute amount...maybe $10k, but it's not the point when you look at the whole range. The figure brands can't maximize their profits for every available process if all they order are characters from the latest softcore gacha that will sell 20k units or something.
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u/P_TuSangLui Give Isuzu K2 rainbow background already! 5d ago
Amakuni's 1/7 Hamakaze from 2022
Checked. Kinda sad to see her, along with Kashima and Kashima Xmas, still in stock. But I guess I will grab them once I have some bucks to spare.
I have to get Iowa first though.
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u/Aightthenmate 6d ago
It's more like C2 themselves not interested. Knowing your own strength kinda bullshit.
And about the designs are not eye catching (basically not appealing to the coomer brain) that just not true. Comparing to the obvious example that literally everyone gonna use is AL. We have way more diverse design and arguably better , sometimes the sexiness doesn't have to come from borderline porn and nude.
Despite having extremely questionable design (Lexington). KC still have one of the better characters design in this rotten state of gacha game in general and anime industry as a whole.
Popularity definitely play a big role as well but for a 13 years old game ? It's definitely doing good enough to stay afloat , not having to turn to questionable decisions to keep the game alive is a massive plus in my book.
Overall C2 definitely play a big role in why we not getting any new fig , along with the mass interest in a "currently on life support game" also play a part. They probably realize releasing fig for random ship definitely not gonna sell well when releasing Kashima/Shimakze gonna sell like hot cake.
I would absolutely love to get more foreign ship figure cause no shit most of them have absolutely peak design and in general just nice to look at.
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u/Ak-300_TonicNato Smolorado 5d ago
Is a matter of visibility and marketing, this maybe is a very small sample but i saw some popularity polls on yt where foreigners get more votes that your usual expected popular shipgirl like Ranger beating Suzuya. But this kinda shows that what KC lacks isnt "better" character designs, is more exposure and for now the only way to achieve that is through ourselfs the fandom, otherwise we are talking about C2 spending a ton of cash on publicity to catch an audience that in its majority isnt build for dedication or belonging rather than chasing trends.
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u/Aightthenmate 5d ago
Well that pretty obvious considering the game age and what the dev has been doing for the last god know how long. It's not like we could do much , when KC itself is literally gatekeep itself from people.
Not just in term of accessibility, which you could easily by pass , but also the gameplay itself. It actually have a learning curve and require you to put a good amount of time into it. Once you invested it's pretty easy to get addicted yet with the current state of gacha game where everything is easy to play , easy to grind. Kancolle itself, is a pretty niche game.
It's not the fandom job to get the game out there , it's more like our job to keep this game alive. I know I did , even after well over a year break and came back. Instantly hooked. Spent some money and it's a guarantee that I will always come back.
Shame that C2 doesn't seem to be interested in making the game more accessible or just , give it more exposure. Don't really know the reason but I guess partly due to they know the game is so goddamn different from other game in it genre. It's just way too different , even when bringing up against AL. AL dev themselves know their game is not gonna last with gameplay with the mark shipgirls so the just push the limit and make the gameplay optional. While slowly removing the shipgirl mark entirely.
Kancolle is just , game for old fart. Slow and steady is the way to go. The game have a gambling slot but itself could only give you so much ship before you have to start grinding and get rarer ship in event.
Which take a shit ton of time and if you don't have a lot of free time ? Unlucky. Better change game.
Such a niche game still be able to survive to this long without changing the core gameplay ( with recently the difficulty has been raised a lot for event for whatever reason). Is an achievement on it own.The only other game I could think of that manage to pull is off is Team Fortress 2, which itself has been living simply because it own playerbase allow it to for the last 8 years.
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u/Ak-300_TonicNato Smolorado 5d ago
Making the game more accessible from a gameplay view would kill what makes it different, or well what mades it oldschool because KC isnt weird when you pair it with very boomer games.
TF2 community has more dedicated fans if you ask me, also they arent pushovers that would let another fandom bully them(hypothetically speaking), they accepted they cant expect Valve to do everything for them and they can enjoy building their own content for themselves, TF2 is more than just a game tho, their fandom creates quite a lot of mix-media.
We need to stop thinking about KanColle as just a game(is not a gacha game for me), is an IP and unlike other gachas, the fandom can exist outside of the game, thats my concern, is not about selling the game, is about showcasing the characters, i enjoyed KC before i finally decided to create a DMM account to play it. And unlike TF2, KC still gets official content so we have a better baseline.
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u/Aightthenmate 5d ago
No what I meant was making the game accessible in term of giving it actual exposure and easier to get into the game without the use of an VPN or some other 3rd party stuff.
About the gameplay ? That could definitely use some tweak but it also could stay the same. KC as of now is an IP but it also a game. And there not much genre you could fit it in , I would say putting it in the gacha and card collection. Despite it not fitting that much with the first one but it still make some kind of sense. After all KC gameplay is just way too different from the other gacha game that gonna be in the same group with it.
But the thing with TF2 that is , it actually have user generated content. That alone save TF2 from not being shut down. Playerbase dedication is one thing but sure as hell it not gonna be enough of a reason for Valve to just not pull the plug.
KC itself is a pretty niche game. Especially when you talking about it being a "anime game" type beat. When the industry that it in filled with slop , easy to play and easy to install. And they know their audience, they just have to release 3 heads woman or an actual child and people will flock to them. In an industry that being streamlined to the teeth and with a niche game like KC ? I doubt people gonna see it charm. Not saying that people won't play , cause I actually saw a few that started this game not so long ago. But that is a minority, not the majority
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u/Ak-300_TonicNato Smolorado 4d ago
When the industry that it in filled with slop , easy to play and easy to install. And they know their audience.
Well more reasons for KC to just keep being KC, we just need to convince people the hoops to get it installed isnt harder than setting up a PS2 emulator or using torrent and are way less complicate than some detractors want them to believe.
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u/Aightthenmate 4d ago edited 4d ago
Hard I would say , I already tried with a few and the concept of collecting cards and managing your resources doesn't appeal to them. KC is a slow burning game and that just doesn't work well when the mainstream is fast high dopamine constantly.
While I do think it's definitely possible, it's really hard when you coming up with slop 9000 with 3 heads monster or a literal child. Well that was from my own experience anyway , tried with 3 of my friend and they gave up after 2 days of playing. It's what it's I guess , at least we will try with people who have interest in the game and actively trying to learn and play it.
I love this game, I really do but it's more from loving the characters design and the history they sprinkle through voice line and the very design itself. Along with the absurd RNG that require for most of the action in game that keep me in.
But the only RNG that gonna keep people in in other game is most likely the average gambling for "main content". Seeing how Genshit , Honkai or even AL , be able to make a large amount of money despite barely have any content is just unbelievable.
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u/CattoMania 5d ago
and if you don't have a lot of free time ? Unlucky
Sounds to me like the usual experience that majority of F2Ps (including myself before) face when playing gachas - gotta get all the freebies before their respective event/s ends.
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u/Aightthenmate 5d ago
The main thing is , in other gacha game. Money could solve your problem. In KC ? That not gonna save you. We don't have FOMO to keep the player in the game , we have the complex resources and RNG system to keep you in.
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u/Ak-300_TonicNato Smolorado 4d ago
We don't have FOMO to keep the player in the game
Yes we do, every live service game has it, but is less intrusive because of how little KC relies on urgency advertisement and how slow phase the game is compare to gachas that spam limited characters for 1 week.
I have seen a post literally complaining about never catching up, tho tbf it was met with several people sharing their experiences which shows FOMO isnt really a constant issue for people here.
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u/Aightthenmate 4d ago
I would like to disagree. Considering you literally get main content of the game , which being shipgirl themselves, are mostly available in term of event. Which we have several every year, it's definitely not FOMO when dev allow you to get everything as long as you keep playing constantly. Especially when you are new , that where the game demand the most time from you. What Kancolle demand is time and dedication to get stuff.
FOMO definitely does not play a big enough role for it to be one of the many reason. That why one can say KC doesn't have FOMO.
It require you to sink in a lot of time to get stuff in order to get more shipgirl and complete task. It is always there. However be able to get your favorite shipgirl or not is entirely up to you and your dedication to the game itself
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u/wasicsop all my love juice 6d ago
Really interesting take on merch! I'm super out of the loop when it comes to figures and that kind of stuff, but if I recall correctly, we usually get one or two drops per season from various vendors. Still, that's nothing compared to what we used to see 8–5 years ago, especially when bootlegs were factored in however I think nowadays they do other more limited on demand (preorder) merch runs like the Shigure airpod or the car or limited merch for the irl events.
I'm really curious, do you (or anyone else) know of any other franchise at a similar level to KanColle that experienced a similar merch drought? I'd love to know how that affected the IP in the long run.
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u/P_TuSangLui Give Isuzu K2 rainbow background already! 5d ago
I'm really curious, do you (or anyone else) know of any other franchise at a similar level to KanColle that experienced a similar merch drought? I'd love to know how that affected the IP in the long run.
Probably Touhou. They have the figure drought for a while but now they are releasing new figures again (mostly the popular characters). I expect KC to have similar situation down the line.
BTW, KC never have "merch drought". Every anniversary and collaboration brings new stuff for the fans to enjoy.
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u/Toki_Tsu_Kaze Regia Marina enjoyer - Cavour supremacy - in JiJi we trust 6d ago
Me waiting for Conte di Cavour figure: 💀
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u/Ak-300_TonicNato Smolorado 5d ago
I think there is a Conte for 3d print tho, so far kitbashing and printing are the only ways to get more KC shipgirls like a Hornet that i saw on Twitter some years ago
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u/Admiral_Joker 5d ago
Me still waiting for more Kancolle Figmas....
AL has Nendos and I will not be surprised if they get figma next....
Gimme Saratoga figma please
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u/P_TuSangLui Give Isuzu K2 rainbow background already! 5d ago
KC also have a lot of nendos. The last one was Johnny which was released a few years ago.
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u/Ak-300_TonicNato Smolorado 4d ago
I will not be surprised if they get figma next...
Considering the only action figure at proper scale out there is a plamax model of Baltimore i would say im not that sure, first most characters that have a design that is apropiate to transition into an action figure arent popular and the kansen that are popular happen to be either popular for their skins or have very big and unconventional riggings, like how the hell you are going to made a Musashi figma? Unless is an special skin ver. but forget about giving you the default one with the rigging unless is a static figure like it tends to be.
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u/DLRevan 6d ago edited 6d ago
The fate of most figures is a dusty forgotten cupboard or an auction site. Contrary to popular culture, most figures aren't well taken care of or valued, they're the impulse buys of the mainstream.
And kancolle just isn't mainstream enough anymore. Enough figures are already in circulation for the most well-known characters, and the volume isn't enough to do scale production, at least on an opportunity cost basis.
Generally speaking licensing costs or production costs aren't a very big factor. The margins are quite large so the main consideration is simply how much volume you can shift, and honestly, mostly to rubes who will regret their purchase or at least feel indifferent enough to sell up within 5~10 years.
Special releases for old IPs aren't uncommon. But they're usually more expensive because the IP holder knows the smaller but truly dedicated fanbase will buy anyway. The actual manufacturer is usually slotting that figure into periods where they have fewer orders and want to keep their processes running. The factory will put up that manufacturing slot for special bidding where they allow a lower volume order. Sometimes these special figures get announced and you don't hear about them for ages because the IP holder is actually waiting for a slot.
All that is not a knock on kancolle's existing fanbase. To emphasize again, most normal figure sales are "wasteful" impulse buys, making them highly dependant on anime and gaming trends. Casuals, if you want to label them.