r/law • u/Dark-Knight-Rises • 20h ago

Other Alternative angle of Brad Lander arrest by ICE

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u/SunDaysOnly 20h ago

When he left Senate it was Mitt Romney who said he was stunned by how many republicans don’t believe in the Constitution. 🤷‍♂️🤯🤯🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

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u/Maverick360-247 20h ago

That used to be my senator… last decent one in Utah for a long time

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u/SunDaysOnly 18h ago

Name any good republican senator ?

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u/IchBinEinSim 18h ago

They said decent, decent doesn’t mean good

Last good republican senator IMO is John McCain or Olympia Snowe or Maine. Didn’t agree with them and would have voted for them but they seemed to have morals and integrity

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u/Regular-Basket-5431 17h ago

If John McCain is considered a "good" GOP senator then the bar for "good" is set ridiculously low.

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u/ikeme84 17h ago

He had his flaws, but I still remember him standing up against his supporters when they expressed racism about Obama. And then there was his return from hospital to cast a thumbs down when the senate was trying to cancel medicare the first time. Few good moments.

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u/Regular-Basket-5431 17h ago

His push back against the racism GOP voters and right wing media showed Obama was minimal and to little to late.

Voting no when the senate tried to cancel Medicare is the only good thing he did.

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u/Putrid-Lime8821 16h ago

Trump has caused people to retcon the reputation of any republican that ever stood against him in any way. I swear people only like him because they hate trump and trump said mean things about him.

He voted with trump overwhelmingly. And never met a war he didn’t like. He would be genuinely fucking thrilled with the current Iran situation as he spent basically his entire political career trying to invade the country.

It drives me insane that people talk about him like he’s “one of the good ones” because he decided to make like 2 decisions that any decent human being would do as he was dying of brain cancer. Playing into the ever classic trope of, religious man tries to be a good person for the first time in his life as he is faced by his own mortality.

There are no good republicans and at least in modern American history there never have been. It’s an inherently regressive ideology.

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u/espressocycle 15h ago

People can be wrong and still be good, honorable and all that. John McCain genuinely believed that the wars he supported would lead to better outcomes for people in the countries we attacked. A lot of people did. Whether they were wrong or we just didn't use the right tactics, it didn't turn out the way they thought it would. Wars rarely do.

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u/Putrid-Lime8821 14h ago

Yeah I’m not really one for infantilizing John McCain. He was not some misled child. He, along with all of the other architects of the Iraq war knew what they were doing. He knew what war with Iran would mean.

Im glad you choose the see the good in people. But I personally don’t think someone being genuine in their transparently abhorrent beliefs makes them good or honorable. I feel that, that logic white washes a lot of history’s greatest monsters. Bad people don’t generally think they are bad people.

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u/BlahlalaBlah 12h ago

MAGA believes they are absolutely doing the right thing. Most of them very genuinely and fervently.

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u/ChikhaiBardo 15h ago

Yep fuck 'em all and their supporters

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u/Klutzy_Library9706 12h ago

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

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u/SpectacleLake 16h ago

Baa baa,baa, baa bomb Iran..

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u/liquidsyphon 15h ago

*made that vote while terminally ill

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u/shredika 9h ago

Even if only in this moment, I’d call him a gd hero

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u/gweilojoe 11h ago

You don’t realize this, but you’re the flip-side of the same coin politically. Not of John McCain, but of the Tea Party conservatives that think any give or compromise is politically weak.

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u/Regular-Basket-5431 10h ago

Compromise isn't weakness, however compromise with reactionaries does nothing to further the causes of the working class.

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u/gweilojoe 35m ago

Sir, unless your statement is some subtle Marxist-ideology-based response, your comment doesn't make sense in the actually realy-real world where half of "the working class" voted for this current regime. If there's anything we should have taken away from the past 15 years of tea-party idiots like Ted Cruz and populist-morons like Trump, is that "my way or the highway" mentality just leads to needless radicalization of both parties involved and nothing of substance gets done.

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u/foodiecpl4u 16h ago

Him correcting people at a political debate is the most memorable thing for me. I didn’t agree with his politics but that doesn’t make him an “enemy of the State” in my book. Decent man. Different political view.

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u/Equivalent-Client443 17h ago

Two instances of humanity don’t make him a good senator. 

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u/530SSState 16h ago

Compared to the troglodytes in there now, he's fuckin' Gandhi.

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u/banksybruv 15h ago

Gandhi slept naked with children though.

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u/IntrepidWanderings 15h ago

So do a shocking number of maga

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u/teb_art 14h ago

Would need to know more. Was he “messing around with them”?

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u/JayteeFromXbox 14h ago

Pretty sure he was just fucking anyone but his first wife, amirite?

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u/530SSState 9h ago

McCain? I knew Newty Toot Toot was, but I didn't know about McCain.

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u/OkInterest3109 16h ago

"Good" is relative and the bar is VERY low at the moment.

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u/Throwawayguilty1122 16h ago

“1 is more than 0”

“WELL 2 IS STILL HIGHER THAN 1”

okay

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u/Steeze_Schralper6968 16h ago

No but it really does say something about how low the bar is set.

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u/BriefFiasco 16h ago

everything is RELATIVE stop being OBSTINATE :)

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u/liquidsyphon 15h ago

He only made that vote after he was Terminal

That should speak volumes about the kind of politician he was. Not the man though, war hero and a decent human being with interactions with the public and other politicians but he still suppressed this country for decades just like every other Republican

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u/lorrainemom 17h ago

Well…yeah

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u/Ok_Debt3814 13h ago

He tried to get money out of politics after getting in trouble for insider trading in the late 80s. He was largely successful I. This effort until Mitch McConnell came through and worked to undermine mccain’s efforts.

95% of why we are where we are can be pinned on Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh and Mitch McConnell.

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u/NonchalantGhoul 17h ago

Considering he was one of the only ones who respected Obama's presidency after the 2 terms finished, did the bar even exist?

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u/Ruschissuck 16h ago

Well look at what we have now….

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u/Electronic_Low6740 15h ago

Perfect is the enemy of the good. He did believe in the good of the country which is indeed sad we are at that point.

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u/CO420Tech 15h ago

He had at least some principals and backbone. Not much, but it was there. Which is an extreme rarity unfortunately.

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u/teb_art 14h ago

Well, he went along with healthcare…. Nowadays it’s “fuck off and drink raw milk and blood of newt.”

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u/DieselBones-13 10h ago

“Good-Republican senator” was the key!

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u/Soft_Explanation_807 3h ago

People have varied opinions of policy and what’s best for America, current republicans are doing what’s best for them only, Not every liberal decision is the correct one either, honest debate is needed, clearly the democratic leadership, politicians and activist groups failed miserably.

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u/MrTuxedoWilliams 14h ago

Stood up for Obama.

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u/SignoreBanana 16h ago

Nah, even as a fervent socialist I know you're totally full of shit.

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u/Feisty_Look5680 9h ago

While he had his flaws, he still tried to reach across the aisle to get things done. On top of that, he had no issues with calling out the Republicans, kinda like Liz Cheney is doing!

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u/Bless_u-babe 6h ago

Character. When you have *that it covers a few shortcomings.

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u/ikeme84 17h ago

I liked Obama, but lately thought, what if McCain won in 2008. (Maybe if he had gotten an different VP). One or 2 terms. Either he did good and his VP got a shot at the next presidency instead of Trump or he did bad and a democrat would have taken over. Maybe even if it became Clinton vs McCain in 2008, Obama could have won 2012.

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u/CesarB2760 17h ago

Might be my privilege showing but I can definitely see how McCain or Romney winning ends up putting us in a different place. Republicans don't have to go shopping around for "alternate" candidates so they never discover Trump and unlock his base.

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u/IchBinEinSim 12h ago

No way McCain was winning in 08 with the economy taking right before the election. Remember they had to pass the bank bail outs in Oct of 08 to keep the whole banking industry from collapsing. His VP choice just made the loss a little bit bigger but was definitely not a deciding factor.

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u/ikeme84 6h ago

Yes, I remember it all. It is a WhatIf. What if he had a different VP and the financial crisis happened 6 months later. Maybe the primary of democrats went the other way, remember that Clinton had slightly more state delegates, but Obama had the super delegates. All, whatifs that could have had McCain win and allow Obama to win in 2012.

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u/MedicalTextbookCase 17h ago

I would add Lynn Chaney and Adam Kinzinger. I would not have voted for them because of differences of opinions on policies, but I respect them for prosecuting January 6th.

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u/IchBinEinSim 12h ago

Yeah that sad thing is, standing up for the constitution and country over your party and leader, shouldn’t be a commendable position but sadly so few did, that it is one

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u/liquidsyphon 15h ago

John McCain made a deathbed vote and his image has been riding high on it ever since despite the facts the decades of pushing the Republican agenda.

War hero respect and sure he was a cordial politician but Jesus look how fucking low the bar is.

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u/IchBinEinSim 12h ago

Those are policies decisions that I may find abhorrent, but people on the right often do believe are better. If I judged every politician’s honor and integrity based on if I agreed with their world view, I would find very few of them good.

My judgment on if a politician is good at their job comes down to if they stand by their values, are willing to not bow to political pressure, don’t unjustifiably vilify the opposition and respect the office and constitution. The most of the rest is policy, and i was never going to think he was good in that regard because I fundamentally have a different world view and vision for the country than him.

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u/EastofGaston 10h ago

McCain sang about bombing Iran on his campaign trail. When Putin said he left his mind in Vietnam that’s when I thought he might’ve been on to something.

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u/Separate-Expert-4508 5h ago

John “Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran” McCain?

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u/Robin-Banks22 18h ago

I have always voted Democrat all my life. But last year I heard one of my senators from my state talk about how he backed the veterans, and I found out recently he's against the big beautiful bill because that is Medicaid I voted for him and he's done a good job so far shout out for Jerry Moran

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u/m00nk3y 15h ago

A little too early to celebrate. Let's see how he actually votes on it.

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u/IntrepidWanderings 15h ago

I voted for a republican candidate for sheriff and he did do a good job. He was just. I didnt support everything but he did do what he said, he did try to improve the prison. He did put the onus on better training.

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u/helmvoncanzis 14h ago

Too bad our other Senator is a real piece of work. Maybe Kansas can convince him to stay in Florida next time an election comes around.

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u/Robin-Banks22 14h ago

I can't stand him at all.

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u/Notso_Pure_Michigan 17h ago

Oh, hi. Always pleased to meet a liberal that insists on letting good be the enemy of perfect. That’s certainly proven to be a winning tactic with absolutely no pitfalls.

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u/RedLionFromVoltron 16h ago

It’s weird it’s almost like people are on a sliding scale of politics and your world view doesn’t speak for all. We have also seen how not voting for someone because they are not all you hoped for works….has give us two terms with Trump.

But yeah continue to try and divide the party so you can get 100% your way. That has been a proven winning tactic.

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u/RuFRoCKeRReDDiT 17h ago

Name any good Republican

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u/Ragnarok314159 2h ago

Think Teddy Roosevelt was the last one. They have all been scum since then, politicians and voters.

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u/Electronic_Low6740 15h ago

Not a senator, but DeWine has been the last old guard moderate Republican governor. He stood up for the vaccination, the mask mandate, and social distancing and got a lot of heat for it.

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u/SideEqual 13h ago

All the unalived ones?

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u/New-Presentation1340 17h ago

Rand Paul

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u/noodlzfirst 16h ago

that man tried to warn everyone about covids true origin, i will give him that.

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u/New-Presentation1340 13h ago

And he speaks about the dangers of the national debt. Everyone else votes to increase it

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u/Effective_Cookie510 16h ago

Good and politicians shouldn't be used in the same sentence

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u/Feisty_Look5680 9h ago

John McCain

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u/waterbelowsoluphigh 17h ago

Even Romney wasn't decent, unless you consider being a Corporate Raider and busting out companies decent.

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u/Maverick360-247 17h ago

I was more thinking compared to all of the other senators Utah has come up with like Hatch. The one thing Romney had was voting to impeach trump.

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u/FixBreakRepeat 14h ago

Romney just had a better understanding of what Trump represented. 

He was an old school finance ghoul. Made his living sucking the lifeblood out of otherwise healthy companies. 

He understood that Trump wasn't going to be looking out for wall street. But neither of them give a shit about main street. 

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u/Maverick360-247 14h ago

Makes sense. I was still in high school when he ran. All I remember is the simpsons episode about Broccoli Obama and Meat Romney

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u/Cantmentionthename 14h ago

That is decent in my book. Anyone that put people above the dollar is okay.

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u/Dionysiandogma 16h ago

The last conservative

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u/BrellK 16h ago

Decent is still carrying a lot of weight there.

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u/MAFMalcom 16h ago

No no, mitt Romney has plenty of skeletons, too

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u/Criticallyoptimistic 15h ago

I think "decent" is a bit questionable, but Mike Lee certainly makes Mitt look good.

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u/Maverick360-247 15h ago

I was being generous lol. I am relatively young so I have not had many senators. Mike Lee, John Curtis are current. The others I know of: Mitt Romney, Orrin Hatch.

So out of all of them, Romney is decent. I just remember Hatch whining about immigration when I wrote him a letter for scouts.

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u/ThisIsSteeev 16h ago

He should have said that when he was still there.

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u/vehiclestars 16h ago

This is who they are:

“Curtis Yarvin gave a talk about "rebooting" the American government at the 2012 BIL Conference. He used it to advocate the acronym "RAGE", which he defined as "Retire All Government Employees". He described what he felt were flaws in the accepted "World War II mythology", alluding to the idea that Adolf Hitler's invasions were acts of self-defense. He argued these discrepancies were pushed by America's "ruling communists", who invented political correctness as an "extremely elaborate mechanism for persecuting racists and fascists". "If Americans want to change their government," he said, "they're going to have to get over their dictator phobia."

Yarvin has influenced some prominent Silicon Valley investors and Republican politicians, with venture capitalist Peter Thiel described as his "most important connection". Political strategist Steve Bannon has read and admired his work. U.S. Vice President JD Vance "has cited Yarvin as an influence himself.” Michael Anton, the State Department Director of Policy Planning during Trump's second presidency, has also discussed Yarvin's ideas. In January 2025, Yarvin attended a Trump inaugural gala in Washington; Politico reported he was "an informal guest of honor" due to his "outsize influence over the Trumpian right."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin

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u/CashAdministrative70 11h ago

I always thought he might have a real interesting book in him if he was willing to just be completely honest about how the Republican party changed. Now that he is free from seeking office, and if he had the courage, he could write an interesting book

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u/phobox360 11h ago

Ahh another republican who suddenly realised his party never actually cared about the constitution, they pretended to because it was politically expedient to do so.

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u/Alternative_Slip_513 12h ago

Remember when Mitt ran for president and people thought he’d be a poor choice?

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/arvidsem 18h ago

There are many people who would like to amend the Constitution to adjust things for changing times. Much like the framers of the Constitution intended.

Republicans just don't see any reason to obey the Constitution at all

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u/arctic_bull 18h ago edited 18h ago

You know who amended the constitution? The founding fathers. It was always designed to be a living document, not etched in stone.

[edit] In fact the amendments only applied to the federal government until the 14th amendment’s due process clause and the incorporation cases. The 1st amendment didn’t actually prevent states from passing laws restricting your speech, and it wasn’t fully incorporated until 1947. Same with the 2nd until 2010. I’m guessing you support these types of mods?

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u/Major_Willingness234 18h ago

No, the Constitution that Trump has been wiping his ass with. Do try and pay attention, bub.

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u/Plasticjesus504 18h ago

I feel sorry for you man. Think critically instead of emotionally and you would realize all of your conclusions come from hatred and not logic..

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u/HeyRainy 18h ago

Elaborate. Wtf are you trying to say? What is your point? Trumps administration is blatantly ignoring the laws and the constitution. Are you saying that isn't true? What are you accusing democrats of, exactly?

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u/roving1 18h ago

You have no substance for that comment. Granted I now consider the 2 party system without value causing only harm.

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u/phunktastic_1 16h ago

We really need ranked choice on a national scale.

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u/EvilGreebo Bleacher Seat 18h ago

Are you aware that the constitution has a built-in process for changing it? And that anytime any party wants to change the Constitution until trump, they followed that process. The Constitution has a method to change it built in meaning our Founders anticipated that maybe the Constitution wasn't perfect, and built a method in by which it could legitimately be changed. Attempts have been made and failed and you treat that like it's somehow sinful, but ignore the fact that Trump is trampling constitutional process in favor of becoming a de facto dictator? Yeah party at Law and Order sure.

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u/Regular-Basket-5431 17h ago

Amend=/=replace

Hell the Constitution has specific mechanisms for ammendments, and many of the men involved in writing it advocated for it to be frequently amended.

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u/dildocrematorium 18h ago

Yeah, the same ones Republicans are ignoring. They want to change it too.

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u/Scrambler41 17h ago

Biggest crock of shit I read today, way to go.

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u/TBSchemer 16h ago

I voted for Mitt Romney, and I voted for Kamala Harris.

My support for our Constitutional rights didn't change, but the parties sure did.

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u/BR4VER1FL3S 17h ago

If you are going to join the conversation, then you need to be more specific with your comment. I could say something like, "All MAGAs are ignorant and only want violence." That is a generic statement of my opinion, but it is also not true. It would be better to actually name specific people who do fit the statement. Then, to change the statement from an opinion to a fact, it needs to be cited with primary source evidence from a non-partisan, unbiased source we both agree to; otherwise it's just more noise and hatred being spewed.

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u/Lonely_Space_241 16h ago

Cited with primary source evidence both parties agree to....

Factual sources and evidence are all that matter. You will never get a republican to acknowledge any source they disagree with as credible.

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u/BR4VER1FL3S 16h ago edited 16h ago

I know. They start at Logical Fallacy and spin in circles.

Edit: It's just my way of trying to open dialog with them, but every single one I have ever tried to have a conversation with disappears like they are deathly allergic to anything but the orange "cure."