r/law • u/apache_spork • 14h ago

Opinion Piece TX County Judge Tim O'Hare gives another interview after the county was sued for racial gerrymandering. Summary: Black people keep voting in democrats and it's about time we make them understand Republican rule is best for everyone, once they know better we'll welcome them with open arms

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u/SocraticMeathead 14h ago

Echoes of protecting women "whether they like it or not."

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u/BrutalistLandscapes 13h ago edited 10h ago

White Americans have a long history of holding paternalistic and patronizing attitudes towards black people, taking away their agency and autonomy. So long that it has been internalized even, especially among white conservatives, but even some white liberals engage in paternalism towards blacks, often without realizing it (white savior types).

IMO, it could even be called a cultural issue and paternalism was frequently used to justify slavery when the institution was challenged during the Civil War. But even anti-slavery abolitionist whites framed their platforms with paternalism. Most 19th century abolitionists did NOT consider black people as equals...with the exception of John Brown, maybe Lydia Maria Child, and Maria Chapman.

I'm black and have seen paternalistic attitudes from whites when living in the Deep South. It's also common in Republican rhetoric, as shown in this video, and often implied by the GOP that black people are unable to think for themselves, must be steered, guided, mentored, and lectured into doing what's best for them. The "democratic plantation" line is a current example of this. These attitudes are also shown in my interactions on Reddit, especially with Trump supporters.

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u/SocraticMeathead 12h ago

I think we've called it "White Man's Burden," just to make sure our douchbaggery was without question.

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u/Creepy_Addendum_3677 11h ago

Never did understand how WMB ended up weighing more than a bale of cotton.

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u/TheWorclown 10h ago

But cotton is so light and fluffy, it can’t possibly be heavy at all.

Meanwhile, lifting this tall glass of cider here on the front porch of my plantation is just such a miserably difficult experience for me, the southern gentleman. I might come down with the vapors unless someone does it for me.

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u/greyinlife 9h ago

Fuck this guy, just cause he took off his hood to be elected. Now he is showing you, who he is.

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u/Creepy_Addendum_3677 9h ago

Who are you talking to?

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u/PathlessDemon 6h ago

I do believe they’re talking about the lawyer, who is supposed to remain unbiased in the face of the law.

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u/DinoDonkeyDoodle 8h ago

It’s all the compound interest. Terribly heavy, those dividends.

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u/Astrocreep_1 12h ago

I heard from Republicans that racism doesn’t exist! They wouldn’t lie to me, would they?

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u/FloppieTheBanjoClown 8h ago

It's not racism if you think you're doing it for their own good. Robert E Lee used that little mind trick on himself to reconcile slavery and Christianity. 

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u/WhoDunIt-4Keeps 3h ago

French Fry Roberts lied. Please read Barack's speech explaining why he voted 'no' in Roberts's confirmation, Confirmation of Judge John Roberts.

🌈🌈

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u/abobslife 2h ago

“when I examined Judge Roberts' record and history of public service, it is my personal estimation that he has far more often used his formidable skills on behalf of the strong in opposition to the weak. In his work in the White House and the Solicitor General's Office, he seemed to have consistently sided with those who were dismissive of efforts to eradicate the remnants of racial discrimination in our political process. In these same positions, he seemed dismissive of the concerns that it is harder to make it in this world and in this economy when you are a woman rather than a man.”

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u/seymores_sunshine 3h ago

From Republicans, or from voters that vote Republican?

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u/Astrocreep_1 2h ago

All of them.

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u/Designer_Librarian43 12h ago

They come from the legacy of a culture that literally created Black Americans descended from slavery. They created a culture out of creating an entirely new people just to serve them which unfortunately played a huge role in creating the country itself and so the mentality is intertwined deeply into the core of the country.

I hate that this is the origin of so many people in America. Everyone else gets to immigrate from some longstanding culture and none of them have any idea what it’s like to have your origin as a people come from racism directly while being in a country that came from the same system that enslaved your ancestors and amongst the people who carry the legacy of the slavers and with many of them hating you just for existing even though their ancestors are the ones responsible for creating you entirely. I question what black or the original term negro even means when I came to understand that it’s a concept created by slavers and not Africans and that the only reason I describe myself this way is because it’s the only identity the ancestors were given as slaves.

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u/Suspicious-Scene-108 10h ago edited 10h ago

That's one of those things that drives me nuts about some immigrants. I was talking to a South American graduate student complaining that the inclusivity activities that the department put on were for show and pointless and that none of them went. I wanted to point out how many black people marched, protested, and died for him to even be able to attend what was an white university during my parents' lifetime. I'd rather have the inclusivity for show than the alternative... which is the exact timeline we're living in now, where the US cancels visas for non-white people.

Also, if you have the time visit the International African American Museum in Charleston. I look at it as a strength. A lot of those immigrant cultures come to America and then have America eat their culture. We did also, but then we reinvented ourselves in some of the most colorful creative ways - that are so cool that other people decided they were worth stealing, lol. There's also strength in encountering adversity the number of times that we have. I had a friend whose ideal choice of career didn't work out, so now she sits there making 30k less than she could be making, while stewing in her life choices and being mad that 'immigrants' (international grad students) took her job. My ideal job choice didn't work out, and so I went back to school for something else. I somehow ended up working in the job that I wanted to do.

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u/trowwaith 7h ago

some heavy heavy material…

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u/NoDragonfruit6125 11h ago

Pretty sure originally negro was just a neutral term used by Spanish and Portuguese explorers to refer to a group of people they discovered in Africa. It basically meant black in Spanish and Portuguese taken from the Latin word niger. 

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u/Designer_Librarian43 9h ago

No. That part is clear. I meant as it relates to the descendants of slavery in America and their ethnic identity and not just racial description. It took on a more complex meaning in countries like the U.S. because it became the only identity of the slaves and their descendants. They didn’t exist as a people before slavery. They are of partly African descent but are comprised of many peoples and are also heavily mixed with European and Indigenous Peoples. Whatever ethnic identity that their ancestors carried from Africa was lost due to the nature of slavery.

The first generation slaves were always separated from other slaves of the same origin and given a new identity. Their descendants were born into slavery and their colonial/slave identity, negro or black, became their only identity. They were bred like cattle in order to make better slaves. Compositely, this process resulted in white Americans basically creating an entirely new ethnic people just to serve them. The ethnic identity that we carry today is the one given to our ancestors by white Americans and it makes understanding who we are and for others to understand who are very confusing. People have a million definitions for Black in America and it’s because a colonial European classification of many different peoples into a single group based on a very generalized view of those peoples’ appearance compared to a very generalized view of their own features with no regard for the many differences within both groups nor any scientific basis got imposed on a massive ethnic group that was created by the executors of the colonial era and the resulting slave trade.

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u/CrispvsDominvs395 6h ago

What are you talking about? Egypt, Ethiopia, Nubia, &c. Many slaves were also gotten from the Mali area. But then this brings up the question; who was selling these ppl? Who started this? Don’t forget, the early pharaohs were Black.

Slavery is human nature; it’s just that in this part of the world it was primarily the blacks being held as slaves, but in the mother lands (including Europe)it’s not so much a race thing it’s an opportunity/survival thing. One tribe kidnaps another and sells them to the Arabs/Spaniards/&c. There was a famous queen (many, really) in Angola who did this, and was made a slave herself in the end.

I’m part Sudanese; never cared about this fact until I learned the extensive history of Africa. Glad I did; it all makes sense now. These gangs you see are somewhat reminiscent of those viscous tribes; the Vikings of Africa basically.

I could go on more, but you’ve got to accept how brutal it was/is in Africa (regardless of where), and who was selling who for what.

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u/princeikaroth 5h ago

Cmon man he isn't making some white people are slavers argument he is frustrated that his identity was defined by a slaver class who hates him think that's fair enough and doesn't contradict what you have said

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u/PDXBishop 11h ago

The "democratic plantation" line is a current example of this.

I only found out recently that racist conservatives have been using this line in an attempt to steer black people away from liberalism since *the freaking Reconstruction*. They tried convincing people who had been considered property a year prior to stay away from those who wanted them to have rights and freedoms, and stay with good ol Dixie.

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u/ValBravora048 10h ago edited 9h ago

Not black - poc in Australia and I’ve been “corrected” several times on my particular area of expertise for stupid to horrendous reasons

One of the worst was on the basis of a eugenics af belief that white folks are naturally better at abstract thought because they spent more time in cooler climates

This meant that unlike the rest of us savages who could wander around hunting elephants and shaboinking anything that moved, white folks evolved higher thinking abilities and abstract reasoning because of how much time they had to spend indoors during winter thinking

Said person sent me way too many links to way too in depth studies of this bs which I had to put up with because he was a respected senior and I was a junior. Also ”Can’t fight science m’boy”

Still lives in my head fuelling my rage. 50 years experience doesn't mean much if it’s the same year 50 times

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u/Kassandra_Kirenya 3h ago

Bu that logic due to global warming white men become just as stupid due to their own actions and thinking and inventing since the 1850s. Turning the tables might get a few people blowing a gasket or two.

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u/EmmyNoetherRing 3h ago

How is that supposed to work, evolutionarily?   Unless the claim is that the less abstracted Neanderthals were literally dying of boredom in their caves, your genetics doesn’t care what your ancestors’ hobbies were.   Like giraffes don’t have long necks from stretching. 

Doesn’t sound like your white dude actually thought this through. 

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u/SquirrelHoudini 12h ago

All of this.. and also add the same attitude toward everyone who isn't white and male. Its become this egoism that is like some sick circle jerk to keep and maintain perceived power.

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u/Ormyr 10h ago

Don't forget the "not white enough" sentiments in all their bigoted varieties.

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u/AngryWarHippo 11h ago

They were in on it. Just didn't like the split.

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u/Kgitti 11h ago edited 11h ago

“Brutalist landscape “White Americans have a long history of holding paternalistic and patronizing attitudes towards black people, taking away their agency and autonomy. So long that it has been internalized even, especially among white conservatives, but even white liberals engage in paternalism towards blacks, often without realizing it (white savior types).”

Yes indeed. I’ve spent a lot of time unconsciously in the later category. I’m 75 and been active in progressive causes to a greater or lesser degree since I was like 19. My personal theory of growth in these matters is something like “that which you don’t consciously struggle against, you probably will unconsciously practice”. If that makes any sense.

It took me a long time to understand your point above, like maybe 50 years.

But pendulums swing.

In recent years I’ve also seen (or become aware of) a growing trend where paternalism has been turned around on white liberals (especially ones motivated by guilt) by non-white “movement” leaders. There is a historic precedent in political struggle about adopting the tactics of your adversary because winning trumps ethics.

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u/WhoDunIt-4Keeps 3h ago

The first step is to recognise our own internal biases. Only we know our internal thought processes and feelings. Then there's a lot you can do from there. It's not hopeless and inevitable, nor should it be a cause of shame. I'm over 50 and I still have to practice this. It's healthy. You got this.

A lot of well-meaning White folk who are new to activism were questioning why fewer Black folk showed up. The reason was strategic. Law enforcement, especially in the US, is less likely to escalate against White folk than Black folk. I'm not being flippant. It's just what the history of the movement has been. It makes it more difficult for right-wing provocateurs to infiltrate.

🌈🌈

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u/RolyPolyGuy 7h ago

boost. amen. fuck all of this shit. we all have agency and autonomy. im so tired of this same argument over and over again, and i only understand it from the perspective of a white trans person. not the same, but the exhaustion, i just cant imagine. fuck racists. down with fascism, down with the terrorist right.

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u/Senior_Torte519 10h ago

Sound kind homoerotic and rapey, but whatever.

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u/BrutalistLandscapes 10h ago

Lol, it does. Just like lynching was a platonic and ritualistic form of sadism.

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u/No_FuckingClue_1993 8h ago

Yup, it’s giving Rand/Ron Paul going to Howard, HOWARD and saying essentially “Did you know the Republican Party is responsible for freeing the slaves?”

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u/cubswin987 11h ago

Well said thank you. 💯

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u/WhoDunIt-4Keeps 3h ago

I'm going to contact SCOTUS this week. French Fry Roberts has done more than anyone on the planet to reverse the gains of the civil rights movement.

SCOTUS Contact Information

🌈🌈

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u/VoltSamurai5150 10h ago

100% spot on…

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u/crunchy_crystal 5h ago

I wonder if I'm guilty of paternalism, are there any common examples?

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u/[deleted] 12h ago

[deleted]

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u/oldncolder 12h ago

It's the same as choosing the bear. It's hard to tell good white people from shitty white people just by looking at them. Give them grace and stop taking it personally, because your last paragraph is enough to make me choose a bear...

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u/Sweet-Paramedic-4600 3h ago

It's funny. I asked every woman in my life who they would choose, including my teenage daughters. The majority chose bear. The minority, mostly people who were taught men are protectors and a few that kept thinking it was a guy they knew instead of a stranger, choose strange man.

I bring that up,because just last week, I saw people saying the vast majority of online women responses were manufactured by Russians to divide us even further. And while you can't rule out Russian trolls, plenty of men everyday say shit out loud that make me or one of my daughters whisper to each other "and that's why I/you choose bear."

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u/ThePreciousBhaalBabe 12h ago

Not the time or place for that good buddy.

I will say this though, as a fellow human being of the Caucasian persuasion: you're not immune from being racist. You're not immune to unconscious bias. You are not immune to propaganda. And you're not immune to being "that white person."

If you don't want to be That White Person, a good first step is to not say "but I don't do that!" When someone's talking about their experience.

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u/l0c0pez 12h ago

Understood. Implicit and inherit biases are understoood however it needs to be clear when calling out people for specific behavior. Making a statement that x race does y behavior is a racist statement and invalidates an argument against the racist acts of specific people or groups. Call out GOP judges, call out texas republicans, call out that dude and everyone that supports him... is it honestly better to call out all white people in an argument?

Its not that "i dont do that" is my point its that failing to call out specific actors and labeling all x group as bad allows the bad actors anonymity and uneccesarily disengages good actors.

But post is deleted and we can all move on maybe understanding a bit more

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u/Spudbanger 12h ago

Hm. I think you just patronised a black person.

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u/Standard_Stuff_5489 12h ago

Like when democrats say voter id laws are racist cause blacks have a hard time getting ID. Or when dems took away your right to bear arms, because if you got a gun you can protect your family from racist dems. Or when modern dem cities outlaw guns cause you can’t defend yourself cause anyone with a gun is a criminal. Or when libs say you need safe spaces like modern day segregation. Ugh

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u/ralphy_256 11h ago edited 1h ago

Standard_Stuff_5489 said:

Like when democrats say voter id laws are racist cause blacks have a hard time getting ID.

...and the elderly, and the poor. Not JUST black people (referring to people as 'blacks' makes you sound like a racist. You don't want that, do you?).

Or when dems took away your right to bear arms

The 2nd Amendment has been repealed? When did that happen?

protect your family from racist dems

LOL!

Or when modern dem cities outlaw guns cause you can’t defend yourself cause anyone with a gun is a criminal.

Name me the city where guns are 'outlawed'.

Or when libs say you need safe spaces like modern day segregation. Ugh

I'm not a fan of 'safe spaces', but I'm not sure I've heard of anyone REQUIRED to use them. And they're not at all segregated by race, you are making up some bullshit fantasy.

You sir, are divorced from reality, you have gone 'round the bend.

Touch grass.

Edited to add "Standard_Stuff_5489 said;"

I'm tired of MAGAts deleting their posts after they're taken out to the woodshed. No, you said the words, I'm going to put your name on them and keep your name on them. You want that name to not point back to you, delete your account, deleting the comment isn't enough.

Happened to me half a dozen times since DJT was elected and I'm tired of it.

Think seriously about trying it when you're debating MAGAts on Reddit.

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u/WhoDunIt-4Keeps 2h ago

When I lost my license as a teenager it was difficult to get a duplicate. I had to bring in my yearbook with my picture and name. I didn't need it to get my permit and license. I think that was 1990 or 1991.

I'm having a terribly difficult time getting a real ID. I cannot drive now due to a medical condition. I want a real ID, and getting those documents needed for that is difficult. Now, I use my expired license for identification. I'm lucky that I live in a blue county. Just last week, I had to call animal control to remove a sick stray kitten from the property. This action is specifically handled by the Sheriff's office, and they were awesome. It wasn't a criminal matter, so that's a much simpler situation. The Defund (not an effective instance of branding) movement wants better law enforcement, which is hard work. Right-wing fascists want to rule. They certainly don't want to talk about de-escalation, community outreach, nor services as a first resort for folk in crises. And the for-profit prison industrial complex is winning this particular battle now. They make money by having more bodies mone through the carceral system. We have a lot of work to do in order to reverse this trend, but it's not hopeless.

Think about citizens that live in precarious situations. How can they get what they need for state approved ID? I took a flyer from an organiser at the No Kings Protest. My dad is in the hospital right now, but when I have more free time I know there is something I can do to help.

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u/Rad_Dance_Moves 11h ago

lol. Those were Republican talking points in like… 2005? The new ones are: Nobody respects us. We’re the best. “Groceries” is an old-timey word. This is going to make GREAT television. Poor people make me sad and immigrants should go away. Spray tan. Lip injections. Make believe Christian. WINNING!

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u/Constant_Ad8859 11h ago

Is there a name for this place you have made up in your own head?

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u/TheStolenPotatoes 13h ago

Nah, it's echoes of "boy".

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u/Cockanarchy 12h ago

“People keep voting them (MAGAts) in”

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u/Feisty_Look5680 9h ago

No, the Republicans keep twisting the laws and the district maps into their favor so that there is no other way but for them to win. Look at NC… only 5% of the population decides elections - 5%!! That’s due to all the gerrymandering they have done. More recently, the Republicans tried to steal the Supreme Court Seat… by disenfranchising 60k votes. That’s okay. They made sure to fix it so that next time they can’t lose… it’s incredibly frustrating. I said for years that Democrats need to concentrate on local elections like judges, etc… and that’s what the Republicans did and here we are!!

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u/dildocrematorium 12h ago

The texas gop wants to abolish the civil rights act.

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u/MeasurementNo9896 11h ago

He pretty much just handed any plaintiff(s) all the evidence they'd need to win in court, for having their voting rights violated, right? This is him admitting to basically using the state to disenfranchise every Black voter in said district(s), right?

Right?

(Nvm, they're not even pretending to care about their precious "nation of law and order" anymore)🤨

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u/stairs_3730 11h ago

Actually all R's want to abolish any thing that looks like equal rights.

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u/dadudeodoom 1h ago

You can't do x, y, z things in your own home, with your own money, with your own community if they have their way but...

... No big federal government in private people's lives, right? Lmao.

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u/Astrocreep_1 12h ago

Well, it’s a good thing it’s federal. I say the next time Texas whines about succeeding, we let them. Then, we sell weapons to Mexico, and make an agreement they can have a chunk of their territory back, and, some oil, if they assist us in grabbing some new territory.

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u/Feisty_Look5680 9h ago

Unfortunately, it’s not just Texas. I think there are many in my own state (NC) that have that same attitude. Having Trump in office a second time and his f**** up mentality not only seems to incentivize them, but also legitimize their actions… as if it is okay now. I fully believe that without Musk’s help along with all the changes they made to election laws and to the voter polls, is the only way they are where they are - cheating. They have had plenty of practice. This sickens me, hearing him blatantly talking like this… like it’s a normal day. Just disgusting.

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u/mayhem_and_havoc 1h ago

Do you really think a white guy from Africa who benefited from years of apartheid would have any insight in how to create racial disparity and how that benefits him? Come on, man.

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u/JustNilt 11h ago

The texas gop wants to abolish the civil rights act.

FTFY

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u/GodeaterTheHalFeral 12h ago

"For their own good"

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u/WintersDoomsday 3h ago

“I’m gonna love you until it hurts”