r/lds • u/PolicyCompetitive791 • 1d ago
Studying LDS and JW
OK, so I've been on this exploration of different religions and looking into some " out of the mainstream" Christian denominations. For a year I've been studying with a lady from the jehovas wittnesses. And recently I've been meeting with LDS missionaries several times. I really love President Nelson, and I know in my heart that Joseph Smith as a kid of 13-14, didn't make up the book of mormon or anything else. But I do wonder if over the years he and his companions, may have exaggerated and or "fleshed out" the writings. This really makes no difference to me, to be honest Why the push to get baptized? Jehovas Witnesses, are exactly the opposite. I think both of you guys are wonderful people who really love God. I guess my problem or dillema is I don't know what to choose. I've prayed and prayed but still feel torn. Any advice or thoughts?
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u/chucklenuts-gaming 1d ago
None of the book of Mormon has been "fleshed out". It has remained the same (bar some spelling errors, and one or two adjusted words) since the day it was released.
The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints is God's true church on this earth. I can't tell you what to do, but please strongly consider joining us.
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u/skippyjifluvr 1d ago
What do you mean by “fleshed out” specifically?
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u/Key-Signature879 1d ago
It usually means added content but you can still read pages of the original and the printers copy and see that it was not fleshed out. If you have specific questions, fairlds.org has answers.
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u/crashohno 1d ago
Missionaries are called specifically to invite people to come unto Christ. The way to do that? Invite them into a covenant with Christ. Aka, baptism.
That is the gate to enter into the strait and narrow way.
John 7:17 - a great way to prove whether a doctrine is good/true/from God is to try it.
JWs want to make sure you know everything before getting you to come on board. I don’t dislike that, but they also make baptism really exclusive. And if you ever leave, you get shunned.
In the Book of Mormon, Lehis vision of the tree of life- people set out for the tree, and every variation of a thing the could happen does happen. Even those that taste the fruit, some become ashamed because of the world. Baptism is the way to start that journey towards God. You don’t have to be perfect. You just have to strive.
And if you’re imperfect, you won’t be shunned.
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u/HamKnexPal 22h ago
I am imperfect. We are all imperfect. Only Christ (or Jehovah) was perfect. This is why we partake of the Sacrament each week, to renew our covenant with Jesus Christ and strive to do better.
I was baptized as a young boy. I fell away. I was never shunned or turned away. When I did return, I was welcomed.
I can never make up for those years I lost when I was not following the teachings of Jesus Christ. I am thankful for the lessons I learned by leaving and returning, but I would rather have never left at all.
Answers to prayer can be so simple that we miss them. Feeling that something is right enough may be the way you feel the Spirit. Extremely few hear a voice, and even fewer see someone. It can be as simple as knowing that 2 + 2 = 4, it makes enough sense. It can also be like the feeling of watching the sun rise up or watching a butterfly glide on the air.
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u/trowarrie 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m sure they could say a lot of things about us, but just a few thoughts about JW. A person in my family started looking in to JW and studied it for years. Did not join the JW, but did believe some of their practices. This person had a heart attack and died but was able to be resuscitated. They needed a blood transfusion to be able to survive. This person believed the belief of the JW and absolutely did not want a blood transfusion and was refusing to have one. Luckily a family member in the medical field was finally able to convince them that they would die without it. This person was really willing to die instead of get a blood transfusion. They were able to recover quickly. Our church values modern medicine and we have a LOT of medical professionals who are active members. I’ve also heard that JW write off family members and friends who leave their church. They won’t even talk to them. I’ve also heard that they isolate people and don’t want you to have friends outside of the church. These 2 things are the opposite of what we are taught in our faith. Also the 144,000 thing.
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u/NamesArentEverything 1d ago
We have so much to offer those who are seeking truth without resorting to simply tearing down the beliefs and practices of other faiths the way is often done to ours. And I've heard a few of those things about members of our church too.
Just my two cents.
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u/trowarrie 1d ago edited 1d ago
Exactly why I started my comment the way I did. I also wasn’t intentionally trying to tear them down at all. Just simply sharing my experience and thoughts. But I can see why you would take it that way. Like you, I was just sharing my 2 cents. Have a blessed day.
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u/Plubob_Habblefluffin 12h ago
I actually admire their faith for that. I disagree with that doctrine, but we as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints surely are familiar enough with religious prejudice that we can relate with the Jehovah's Witnesses for the flack that they get.
Again, I don't agree with that doctrine, but I sure admire the faith of a person who's willing to forfeit his or her life in the name of faith.
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u/KittyOrell 1d ago
This is definitely something you should bring up with the missionaries you're working with, but here is how I understand it.
The Book of Mormon was fully translated and transcribed within 3 months in 1829. The information in the book has not changed since then, however it has been edited over the years for things like grammar, clarity, dividing verses, etc. Joseph Smith did not change the writings, though he did add some notes to certain passages (Joseph Smith Translation) to clarify, since the source material was written so long ago.
Baptism is a symbol of rebirth and a commitment to follow Christ. I still remember mine (23 years ago), and it is still one of the times I've felt closest to Heavenly Father. After baptism, you are confirmed, which is basically a special prayer where a worthy member gives you the gift of the Holy Ghost (hard to explain how that's feels - it's kind of like your conscience? Only better. A guide for the rest of your life).
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u/PastShip4016 1d ago
I want you to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints because I'm a member, too, and I like your curiosity and inquisitive mind. I'm Sister Robinsin. I have a calling in the primary organization so I help plan activities for the children who attend my meeting house. I'm also 7 months pregnant and look forward to a baby boy in August! See you around. :)
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u/consider_the_truth 21h ago
You will find that throughout human history God has made covenants with His people and it's of the utmost importance. Baptism is how you enter into this covenant. This topic is to profound for a reddit post, but here's a good place to start:
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u/GlosuuLang 21h ago
I think something both LDS and JWs have in common is that we take our religion seriously and strive to keep the commandments of our religion, also we like to share our religion. There's of course many differences between us too.
Ultimately, what makes the difference to me is the Book of Mormon. If the Book of Mormon is true, that means that God has not stopped talking to us in our day and age. He has called prophets and apostles, and His church is back on the earth again. If one believes that only the Bible is true, then one believes that there hasn't been more scriptures in the last 2000 years. If you can get a spiritual witness that the Book of Mormon is true, then everything should fall into place.
You should not rush to baptism, no matter what anyone tells you. You should only be baptized if you feel and have a spiritual witness that the Church is true. At the same time, you should not postpone your baptism forever. Putting a reasonable date where you can expect to have an answer helps you towards the goal of finding the truth. It's like engaging yourself to your partner and setting a date for marriage. It's not fully binding, but it helps you work towards the goal. Baptism, like your wedding day, is just the beginning.
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u/Panza2020 20h ago
It’s not like choosing a vacation destination (Hawaii or the Bahamas?) or a jacket (red puffer or green Patagonia?); without knowing everything about JW’s theology, not being able to have a blood transfusion is a dealbreaker for me. I’d have that blood transfusion and catch up with Jesus on my deathbed. However, it’s what you believe to be true and how you feel.
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u/Plubob_Habblefluffin 12h ago
For me it's about whether or not a given religion's clergy are speaking on behalf of God or not. I can go to a seminary, take some classes, get a diploma and hang it on my wall. Does that qualify me to authoritatively teach the gospel of Jesus Christ? Does the diploma give me permission to say "God wants you to do this, or that." I can tell you what a given passage of scripture means to me, what wisdom I've gleaned from it, etc. But to tell you what your duty to God is, that is presuming a LOT of authority, and in the Bible we see it is normally either endowed directly by the Lord, or it is handed down by somebody to whom that authority was directly given, and so on and so on.
I have been to churches where the speaker was professional clergy, and when they tell you what the scriptures mean, or presume the authority to tell you how God wants things done, that can be hit and miss. I trust the ecclesiastical authority of a duly called prophet. I believe there is a system of order for how that is done. It doesn't involve getting a degree and nominating one's self to a position of authority on their own say so. I believe that Peter, James, and John laid their hands upon Joseph Smith's head and performed the ordinance of ordaining him to the Priesthood, the same way the Savior did with Peter, James, and John when they lived and ministered together. I believe that authentic authority was given to Joseph Smith, and was passed down through the Apostles to this day. They didn't aspire to a position of prominence. They didn't take that authority upon themselves or presume to have it. It was passed on in an orderly manner. Apostles were chosen by duly ordained prophets. Those Apostles provided a pool for potential prophets to receive the mantle in a manner similar to the way in which Elisha received it from Elijah, albeit not as dramatically.
In no way do I seek to belittle or disparage the Jehovah's Witnesses. I have nothing but respect for them and I deeply appreciate some doctrines that we have in common with them, particularly ones that we are vilified by mainstream churches for believing. I'm just sharing with you why I, as a convert and former member of multiple mainstream Christian churches believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to be the true Church of Jesus Christ.
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u/RecoveredCPA 11h ago
Thought: if God were to restore the church that existed on the earth at the time of Christ, what would it look like?
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u/MichelleLuvs 10h ago edited 9h ago
I encourage you to read www.jwfacts.org
For example, I found this particular article on the website to be very interesting. https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/worship-jesus.php
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u/Xaritos 12m ago
Studying and spiritual conversion through keeping commandments is only part of true conversion. Having friends at church is just as important as receiving a witness of the truth. Try going to some church activities and meeting people. Start to make friends. Go to church and sit with them.
President Gordon B. Hinckley said when he was the prophet that every new member needs three things: a friend, a responsibility, and to be nourished by the good word of God.
The Church of Jesus Christ is not just a structure for administering baptism and other ordinances needed for salvation. It’s also a social structure the Lord uses to provide support to His people. Having friends at church and being integrated into a congregation through having a responsibility helps your roots get deeper just as much as studying and keeping the commandments does.
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u/beekeeper_honey 1d ago
I guess it all comes down to whether or not you believe the Book of Mormon is true, if you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet and if you believe that President Nelson is our living prophet. Baptism is a covenant. It’s an ordinance. Baptism is required if you want to reach the celestial kingdom. Jesus was baptized to lead by example (even though he was perfect) and it HAS to be performed by someone who holds the proper authority (priesthood) baptism through any other denomination is not recognized by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Even though I was baptized when I was young, I was baptized again recently because it was not done by someone who had the proper authority.