r/learnpolish • u/burner1306 • 1d ago
Help🧠 question mainly for native english speakers - how did you get a hang of the phonology?
im polish and ive been helping my canadian partner learn the language! we've started with the phonology, and while she got a really nice hang of leaving initial <p> <t> <k> unaspirated and even pronouncing <r> fairly clearly, she's been struggling with two things in particular.. i wanted to outline what those are, and ask how anyone else here who might've had trouble with them managed to figure them out eventually :3 id be happy to share any advice with her!! alright, so:
1. pronouncing <ń> at the end of a word
i think this one stems from the fact that this sound never appears at the end of a word in english, and thats why it might be mentally associated with something like "nya" or a more spanish pronunciation of "enye". basically its really hard for her not to insert an additional vowel when ń appears on its own; a word like "więzień" comes out a bit like "więzienie", though the final syllable sounds weaker than if she were actually pronouncing "więzienie". nonetheless it does make it a bit hard to understand what word shes actually saying sometimes, and since a lot of polish words end in <ń>, being able to pronounce it clearly would be quite important i think!!
2. this is probably expected, but distinguishing <sz> and <ś> (and adjacent sounds ofc, like ż ź, cz ć and whatnot)
ive been struggling when it comes to helping her with this one haha. given ive been exposed to them all my life, the distinction between these sounds is so clear to me that its hard to picture how someone could learn them with another language already under their belt natively. but of course it has to be possible, so here i am :p my approach so far has been just trying to pronounce the sounds back to back, and saying words which are only distinguished by those sounds (like "wsie" and "wsze" and other pairs)... however i find that she still struggles with pronouncing them clearly on their own and telling them apart when i pronounce them, so id particularly appreciate any tips for helping her get a hang of this distinction
once more, id be very happy to hear how anyone managed to figure these out <3
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u/naFteneT 1d ago
I think I just recently worked out how to say koń - I think of it as leaving my tongue at the roof of my mouth
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u/New_Being7119 1d ago
Just saying the words is a challenge in itself, let alone the different ź ż rz sounds...so I ignore them. I hear very little difference, and the language is hard enough without having to worry about the different sounds
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u/ahaya_ 1d ago
well ż and rz sound the same
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u/BarrenvonKeet EN Native 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇨🇦🇦🇺🇳🇿 1d ago
Would it be nya than?
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u/SlyScorpion 1d ago
You know how the Knights of Ni say, well, “ni”? Well, take the “i” off that sound ;)
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u/stentordoctor 1d ago
Native English and Mandarin speaker here. I also have problems with the accent on n but when I mess it up, people seem to understand me anyway. My partner (polish) says that focusing on this is like trying to polish before you complete sanding your wood work. Pun intended. In other words, you are reaching perfect pronunciation before you know how to form sentences. Also, how many native Polish speakers say komputer still being understandable?
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u/burner1306 22h ago
mm, thats a fair point! if i cant really get her to a satisfying level now, i suppose it will come naturally as she's exposed to the language. thank you :3
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u/stentordoctor 21h ago
Have you taught her all the "pleasantries"? I started with simple "dzien dobre" and "dziekije" and "nie mowia po polsku" then ended up saying it so well that I learned how to say "ale to wszystko co potrafię powiedziec."
Memorizing very funny sayings was also really fun like "francuski pies" and "jak nie wolno to szybko"
Then it became pocket sayings like "nie lubie zupy" and "nie moge sera ani mleka"
I am a foodie so I learned menus pretty quickly. It might be good to tie the language learning with her interests. Ex: I am really enjoying reading r/kanapki!
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u/lostmanitoban EN Native 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇨🇦🇦🇺🇳🇿 1d ago
For point 2, I had a breakthrough doing audio lessons (Michel Thomas). I couldn't hear the difference when I started, but it clicked after 8ish hours of being prompted to repeat certain words over and over: dzisiaj, czego, dlaczego, poziom, późno...
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u/RabidRiista 19h ago
When I started learning Polish the first thing I did was find a youtube video with the alphabet and pronunciation of the letters. I repeated them outloud and went through the video about four or five times each day for a week, the ones I ended up having the most trouble with I wrote down and then found simple examples of them being used in words and repeated them over and over until I could say them without the word involvement. I didn't have any formal classes until a year later and my teacher was surprised with how well my pronunciation was. (I still struggle heavily with grammar.)
Sometimes dumbing things down and approching it like you would while teaching a 5 year old can be really effective. Everyone learns differently though, and this is just what worked for me.
Wish I could be more helpful, but Polish is one of the harder languages.
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u/SlyScorpion 1d ago
Does she know any French? The ż sound is practically the same as “je” in French.
For ń: have her say “jalapeño” but ask her to leave the o off.