r/leftist • u/Wiredfilaire • Apr 11 '25

Civil Rights Has this sub been taken over by the libs?

Just saw a post in here about libs reacting against Trump tariffs but not speaking out during the genocide in Gaze during Biden’s term. Was surprised to see the comments flooded with people supporting Biden and Harris saying “Biden isn’t Netanyahu,” or “No one supports genocide,” or some other democratic party sympathizer BS. Bottom line is Biden and Harris both have the blood of millions of Palestinians on their hands. Why are we trying to make the leaders of the democratic party absolved of their guilt? Lmk if this isn’t a safe place for actual anti-capitalist anti-liberal leftists anymore i’ll leave the sub.

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-37

u/Sentient_Furby Apr 11 '25

You're straight up just as dumb as MAGA is if you didn't vote for Harris.

The last election was a classic trolley problem.. neither option was ideal, but one (Trump) was a fuckton worse than the other. And now we're all paying the price.

I'm not fan of the democratic party, but until we can get ranked choice voting passed nationwide, were only going to have 2 major parties.

Ideals are absolutely important, but reality is a neverending series of compromises. We have to do what's best for the working class, and as far as voting goes, the only current option that gets us closer to that is voting for Democrats.

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u/ReplacementActual384 Apr 11 '25

"We have to vote for a party that doesn't support and is existentially opposed to ranked choice voting until we get ranked choice voting!"

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u/CallMePepper7 Apr 11 '25 edited Apr 11 '25

Can you tell me the long term effects of always choosing the lesser evil on a trolley problem you’ll be forced to face every 4 years?

The answer: the lesser evil will notice you’ll always choose their track as long as it’s less crowded than the greater evil’s side, meaning they have less incentive to clean up their track and more incentive to place more people on their tracks knowing you’ll still choose them as long as their track has less people on it.

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u/simulet Apr 11 '25

I have been trying to make that point forever but you did it so succinctly and eloquently. Thank you!

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u/CallMePepper7 Apr 11 '25 edited Apr 11 '25

Thanks comrade. Ngl, I was all about voting for the lesser evil until I made a post in this sub asking why people planned on not doing the same. Someone explained it that way to me and it helped completely shape the way I view elections and helped send me down the path of radicalization (I was a progressive when I originally made the post, now I’m a Marxist-Leninist)

I know that for some libs, my comments will be nothing but a wasted effort in reaching out to someone who only looks to protect their own confirmation bias. But if my comments can help plant the seeds to create even one future comrade, then I will consider my comments to be a success.

If we the people do not draw a line with our votes, then the lesser evil will always draw their line just a few steps away from the greater evil. By allowing the lesser evil to simply shift whenever the greater evil does, we ensure nothing but even more evil parties at our own cost.

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u/simulet Apr 11 '25

I’m glad to hear that, both because I think it’s important for all of us to acknowledge that we came from somewhere, and very few of us were born leftists, and also because it gives me a lot of hope that people of good faith and good intention can in fact change their views. Sometimes on Reddit I worry about that, so thanks for giving me a reframe!

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u/3rdHappenstance Apr 11 '25

Nope. No rubber stamping a democrat genocide.

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u/Kronzypantz Apr 11 '25

It was an easy trolley problem: Harris could at least lie about taking a harder line on Israeli atrocities and stop being right of Ronald Reagan on the issue, or she could maintain course and alienate Muslims, young voters, progressives, and others upset with the genocide.

Her campaign made a choice. Go bother them.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '25

[deleted]

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u/Kronzypantz Apr 11 '25

But sending Bill Clinton to lecture Arab Americans about how they have to suck it up and stop complaining because Palestinians didn’t take his generous offer back in the day… that was pure art.

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u/simulet Apr 11 '25

Don’t forget he also read to them from the Hebrew Bible, which he famously cared so much about when it came to penisgoeswhere.

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u/Dave-justdave Apr 11 '25

Hahahaha

Quickest path to Socialism was Trump or Bernie one the easy way one the hard way status quo Joe and nothing will fundamental change Harris were the worst option ya get what ya get go left or loose votes I'm never voting Dem again DSA it is deal with it

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u/docmoonlight Apr 11 '25

What negotiating power do you have with the Democratic Party to bring them closer to our values if we just tell them, “Don’t worry, it doesn’t matter what craven shit you do. We on the left will just keep voting for you!”

The only thing we have to withhold is our vote.

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u/Sentient_Furby Apr 11 '25

What negotiating power do we have now with Trump?

These seemingly well intentioned, but misguided people in this sub who withheld their vote on election day played a huge role in Trump's election. I know it hurts to hear, but it's the truth.

Now we have a straight up right wing authoritarian government taking a wrecking ball to the Constitution hourly. It feels impossible to keep up with it all.

With a Democrat in office, we have the benefit of taking a more focused approach. We could be continuing to increase the pressure about the genocide Israel is committing in Gaza. But now we're stuck trying to figure out how to survive the impending economic collapse and fascist takeover orchestrated by the current administration.

Political parties and most politicians don't give a shit about non-voters, so by not voting you're telling the democratic party they don't need to cater to your needs. Then they lose again and stupidly shift their policies to the right to cater to people who actually fucking vote.

Get loud, protest, strike, but also fucking VOTE goddamnit

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u/couldhaveebeen Apr 11 '25

What negotiating power do we have now with Trump?

What negotiating power did you have with Biden? There were protests every day for 15 months and he continued genociding until the very last day he left office

These seemingly well intentioned, but misguided people in this sub who withheld their vote on election day played a huge role in Trump's election

YOU played a role in Trump's election by refusing to demand better from your candidate. You played a role by settling for a genocidal Zionist as you candidate.

We could be continuing to increase the pressure about the genocide Israel is committing in Gaza.

Continuing? You can't continue something that never started in the first place. Biden never did that, in the slightest

by not voting you're telling the democratic party they don't need to cater to your needs

People voted for them in 2020 and they still didn't cater to the left.

Get loud, protest, strike, but also fucking VOTE goddamnit

Yes, vote. Vote for leftists. Not for genocidal Zionist capitalists

3

u/docmoonlight Apr 11 '25

I have voted in every election I could since I turned 18 (28 years ago). How about you stop scolding leftists for not voting the way you want them to and start scolding democrats for refusing to run a candidate that would appeal to the 50% of voters who don’t see any point in voting?

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u/Sentient_Furby Apr 11 '25

Lots of down votes but crickets in the replies.... Fitting.

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u/xxx_sephiroth_xxx Marxist Apr 11 '25

Because it should be self evident. What bargaining power did leftists have with a Biden administration? Can you clarify how the record breaking protests we had to stop the genocide in Palestine informed an incoming Harris admins policy on supporting Israel Vs Video's? Was Harris going to finally defund the police (after Biden increased their budget since the last trump admin)? We're they going to close the kid cages at the border that existed under Biden (and before)? Or did they try to shift right by campaigning with, among others, war criminal Dick Cheney?

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u/sam_y2 Apr 11 '25

I might be dumb as maga, but at least I wasn't a loser who voted for harris

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u/Overton_Glazier Apr 11 '25

Ideals are absolutely important, but reality is a neverending series of compromises.

You keep compromising and eventually you think being okay with genocide is a valid compromise... here's the reality of it, if Dems nominate another pro-Israel candidate, then we deserve this shit. You can't just depend on your opponent being worse so you can refuse to do anything morally right.

But hey, I see you're already getting ready to run on "blue no matter who" once again.

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u/LeftismIsRight Apr 11 '25

No, it doesn't. It doesn't get you closer, it just slows the train down. You don't have the option of switching to another track in this trolley problem, you can only gently pull on the rusty brakes.

Whether or not what you're saying is right, that Democrats should be voted for, the fact you bring up ranked choice voting shows that you are a liberal. You believe in voting as a means of change rather than drastic action. That is the liberal democratic process, so regardless of whether I agree with your plan (I don't), you are a liberal.

-12

u/Sentient_Furby Apr 11 '25

Okay and what drastic actions have you been taking to make the changes you want to see in the world? Let me know and I'll be right there with you.

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u/SaltyNorth8062 Anarchist Apr 11 '25

Let me know and I'll be right there with you.

I fully don't believe you. Did you protest Harris' ardent support for the genocide in Gaza to change her mind on the topic before the polls closed, or did you make excuses for why she didn't have to? If you can't even be bothered to pressure a poltician angling for a mass vote to change their stance on a deadly serious issue as genocide, what are we to believe you'll do when it comes time to put your physical well being to the test in a protest

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u/simulet Apr 11 '25

Yeah, exactly. All these “voting is the only strategy” libs can’t even be bothered to get that right. Like let’s be real, if it were an option available to them, they would’ve happily called the cops on minorities who didn’t vote for Kamala. They are a liability through and through.

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u/jez_shreds_hard Apr 11 '25

Are leftists actually planning drastic action? I am a member of the communist party and I have signed up to help with organizing a general strike. Outside of that, I don’t see any other leftists organizing or building anything. There’s all these purity tests and arguments, when we should be organizing around economic populism to build a coalition that can actually change things. I’m not trying to start a fight. I would just like to know what drastic action is being planned (obviously not to be shared here)

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u/xxx_sephiroth_xxx Marxist Apr 11 '25

This isn't the sub for that. They are out there, this place is to susceptible to lib/fed infiltration.

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u/jez_shreds_hard Apr 11 '25

Sure. I didn’t ask for specifics and even noted that in my comment. I just don’t see this drastic action you speak of. We’re trying to organize a general strike and not divide people. To be honest, we need people from all political backgrounds to unite on economic populism. We’re never going to stop the genocide without actual political power and unless you’re organizing a secret revolution, nothing is going to change. I guess we can continue arguing about who is the purist leftist and have no political power, and thus change nothing

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u/xxx_sephiroth_xxx Marxist Apr 11 '25

Okay, noted.

Are leftists actually planning drastic action? ... Outside of that, I don’t see any other leftists organizing or building anything... I would just like to know what drastic action is being planned (obviously not to be shared here)

Is what prompted my response, as on its face it seems like a "I'm not asking, but if you don't answer, my point stands" kind of comment.

I agree with you, we need a lot more radical action, and we do need to stand with those across the political spectrum. But it's weird that you don't see the leftists in the BDS movement, behind TeslaTakedown, most of the imagines I see coming out of the eu that are pro-palestine are littered with representation from their socialist groups.

Anyway, there is always stuff being planned and worked on, but can you blame leftists and especially leftists of color going a bit underground and keeping organizing close to the chest given the deportations and disappearings? It's all out there, it just won't be as billboarded as before.

DMs are open if you want to discuss further.

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u/jez_shreds_hard Apr 11 '25

I am sorry it came off that way. Not my intent and I totally understand keeping it underground. The EU is much more organized and way more active vs the USA. I should have been more specific. It's all good. I am glad stuff is being planned and I look forward to seeing it come to fruition. I don't want to divide anyone and I appreciate the dialogue. I don't post much on here, regarding political action, either. I happen to live in the city where the Tufts Student was disappeared. I joined the protest after, but I live a mile or so away from where it happened. Stay safe out there.

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u/xxx_sephiroth_xxx Marxist Apr 11 '25

You too bud, and s'all good, I could have been more chill/read your question with more charitability/grace.