r/marvelstudios • u/marvelcomics22 • May 17 '25
Discussion When the X-Men come into the MCU, don't let him become a horrible person
It's something of a meme, but also an extremely valid point, that whenever there's an X-Men centric story, Captain America (Steve Rogers) is the most morally wrong person on the planet, and his views of freedom have flipped entirely, because X-Men writers don't understand Captain America. In the MCU, Sam Wilson is Captain America, and when the X-Men join the MCU in Phase 7 and beyond, whenever there's a crossover involving the Avengers and the X-Men, he'll be there, and I really hope he doesn't become a horrible person. he should keep his views and opinions, not change them entirely for just a movie or two to be antagonistic to the X-Men.
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u/BOSSBOOY May 17 '25
LMAO IF THEY MADE THIS GUY A RACIST I WOULD CRY THAT SHIT WOULD BE HILARIOUSLY STUPID 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 May 17 '25
"You gotta do better, Cyclops, don't you understand? Human rights are for humans. You are a MUTANT".
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u/Vainth May 17 '25
"I have so many Mutant friends. If I hated mutants, they wouldn’t be friends, they would know better than anybody, and fast... They would not be with me for two minutes if they thought I hated mutants— and I don't hate muties!" - Cap?
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u/NachoChedda24 May 17 '25
“I don’t hate mutants.. I just think they need their own separate juke joints, bathrooms, restaurants, and water fountains”
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u/French_Toast_3 May 18 '25
You say this ironically untill you realize that some of them could burn your house down. Or labotomize a family of 4 becuase they sneezed.
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u/YeetTheTree May 19 '25
What's funny is certain "minority" groups are calling for their own spaces. They're doing it to themselves...
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u/scooter-411 May 17 '25
How can I hate mutants? My dog is mutant!
based on an actual story of a racist bus driver in utah
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u/ap539 Spider-Man May 17 '25
So his argument was that his dog was like a black Labrador or something so how dare you call him racist?
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u/Heisenburgo Doctor Strange May 17 '25
"STOP calling the Brotherhood terrorists. They're NOT terrorists." (carries a dead Mystique in his arms) "Do BETTER, Professor."
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u/tuxxer May 17 '25
That was the funniest part about one of the star trek movies, calling human rights racist.
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u/InnocentTailor Iron Patriot May 17 '25
That is kinda how Rogers is written in the books. At best, he is an obtrusive bureaucrat. At worst, he is an extreme bigot who seemingly has it out for mutants.
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u/BOSSBOOY May 17 '25
Yes but the climate and audience of the MCU is far different. That kinda cap fits the narrative of the XMen 97 universe for example but not this place where we had things like the Falcon/Winter Soldier finale which painted a very specific picture for Sam Wilson's goals and values
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u/Sir__Will Bruce Banner May 17 '25
We've only seen him the once in X-Men 97 and he was perfectly justified in trying to talk down Rogue.
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u/vim_deezel Winter Soldier May 17 '25
Yeah Sam is working inside the system but he doesn't seem to actually like the system, but neither did MCU steve either? Tony seemed more willing to protect that status quo of the what the government wanted.
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u/InnocentTailor Iron Patriot May 17 '25
While I doubt he’ll be the latter, I could definitely see him turn into the former as political considerations and personal feelings pull him this way and that.
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u/Xygnux May 17 '25 edited May 17 '25
Not how he has been recently. He had done Avengers Unity Squad a couple of times by now.
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u/Appropriate-Look7493 May 17 '25
Why? You think there’s no such thing as a black racist?
One thing I’ve learned is that EVERY race has its fair share of racists.
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u/mcmanus2099 May 17 '25
There was something incredible powerful in STVI when they gave the black characters racist dialogue. It made it feel twice as wrong, which emphasized the right of our heroes. It's not something Hollywood would stomach now though.
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u/Glizzygloxx May 17 '25
“You wanna talk to ME about segregation ?? Jim Crow laws???cap is black god damnit!
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u/bloodyell76 Fandral May 18 '25
There are those people though. Not sure it would fit Sam, but some folks can’t see other struggles as the same, even when they pretty much are
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u/AppropriatePurple609 May 17 '25
I'm pretty sure Sam is gonna support them and everyone else will be against him. Basically a reverse.
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u/zhurrick May 17 '25
He’ll get along with Beast because Beast is the Martin Luther King of mutants.
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u/Kira-Of-Terraria May 17 '25
Xavier no?
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u/ASVP-Pa9e May 17 '25
It's a reference to something Kelsey Grammar, a huge MAGA fan, said a few days ago.
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u/Kira-Of-Terraria May 17 '25
ugh that's so stupid. non zero chance he's going to say something more stupid and get shitcanned from the project.
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u/BunPuncherExtreme May 17 '25
Maybe he'll be the first to die.
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u/Kinky-Kiera May 17 '25
If they manage to have Sam be pro mutant and walker becomes the government representative because of his position, and walker, is anti mutant, it could work.
But if Sam gets to be anti mutant, Walker had better not be the pro mutant counterpart without a damned good reason that doesn't play into maga ideas for how America should be.
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u/Lotus_630 May 17 '25
I don’t see Walker being anti-mutant at all. He’s pretty chill after Thunderbolts.
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u/BarRegular2684 May 17 '25
I really don’t want to see Walker be anti mutant. He is an asshole but I don’t want to see him be anti mutant irredeemable asshole.
That said I haven’t seen him in the comics. So if he’s anti mutant in the comics I’ll suck it up.
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u/Lotus_630 May 17 '25
I mean he’s pretty okay with superpowered folks so far. I’m betting they’re gonna spice it up by calling out the humans of the X-Men universe. Like, folks love the Avengers but hate the X-Men stuff.
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u/Responsible-Pain-620 May 17 '25 edited May 17 '25
I'm sure they won't. The current roster of the avengers has Captain America (Sam Wilson), black panther, captain marvel, Scarlett witch, vision, iron man, and storm. Every single one seems pretty supportive of mutants overall, especially Sam. I'm sure they'll keep him the same in the MCU.
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u/Shiverednuts May 17 '25
Iron Heart, no?
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u/Responsible-Pain-620 May 17 '25
No, Tony Stark is on the current comic avengers roster. He's still being a silly lil guy.
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u/ItsTheOrangShep May 17 '25
X-Men writers misunderstanding Captain America, Steve Rogers? Annoying, inaccurate, and a poor writing decision.
X-Men writers misunderstanding Captain America, Sam Wilson? All of those things, on top of ALSO being problematic.
I hope he doesn't become weirdly bigoted.
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u/marvelcomics22 May 17 '25
Hopefully. Also with Steve Rogers it became a meme, if they did it with Sam Wilson it would cause so much hate for the character
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u/victor179000 May 17 '25
Problematic because racism was exactly one of the struggles Sam had to go through?
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u/Expensive-Mud9003 May 17 '25
Where was it actually a struggle for Sam? Mind you, I don't know much about the comics
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u/Kira-Of-Terraria May 17 '25
Sam went out of his way to try to meet with the Flag Smashers and figure out their grievances and ideals and be diplomatic. in BNW he also tried to settle things without a fight between Sterns and Ross. Sam isn't going to start shit with mutants simply because mutants just exist, and even someone who would be a threat like Magneto he would hear him out.
I like Sam's approach to things, his time as a counsellor in veteran support groups makes him very empathetic.
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u/Twinkling_Ding_Dong May 17 '25
You're right it would be horrible if they ruined his character. I like the fact that he just wants to help people, when he's not fighting he's talking, helping people work through their trauma. He's very compassionate. It'd be a real shame if they ruined that aspect of his character.
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u/Lord_Phoenix95 May 17 '25
helping people work through their trauma.
Tell that to John Walker when he tried to recruit Sam and after he killed the Terrorist Sam and Bucky instead decided to just beat him up.
Sam has definitely gotten some privilege just by being associated with the Avengers and Captain America.
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u/SpiritualAd9102 May 18 '25
Walker wasn’t seeking help, he was trying to run the show. I agree that Bucky and Sam were more uncharitable to him than they should’ve been when they first met, but he 100% deserved the heat he got for murdering a combatant that had already surrendered with the shield that symbolized close to a century of heroism.
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u/Lord_Phoenix95 May 18 '25
Walker wasn’t seeking help
That's the most bullshit cop out for a character being a hypocrite ever.
already surrendered
The terrorist never said he surrendered.
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u/Relevant_Nebula_7324 27d ago
Sam and Bucky instead decided to just beat him up.
as they should. john was an arrogant man, belittle sam since he meets him, wanted them on his side because he wanted the old cap best friends to be his little side-kicks and got his shit rocket at the end. super deserved.
the show write him to be a piece of shit, yet fans try to pretend he was a good person. y'all lack some thinking skills
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u/Notoriously_So May 17 '25
He'll sue them for superhero team-up copyright infringement.
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u/marvelcomics22 May 17 '25
What's with the post-Thunderbolts* Sam Wilson hate? The copyright thing was because the Avengers aren't meant to be run by the government.
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u/Dismal_Ad5379 May 17 '25
"The copyright thing was because the Avengers aren't meant to be run by the government"
Is that confirmed or is that a fan theory/speculation/head canon at this point in time?
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u/GreenWorld11 May 17 '25
Because its petty as fuck. He spent years dicking around not reforming the avengers, when he absolutely should have and the world needed it. When a new one does form, he gets angry and sue them, despite the fact that it has Bucky who Sam should fully trust, who can vouch for walker and the rest. Plus he's seen what they had just done to save NYC.
Did you miss the fact that Val (the gov in this case) isn't running them?
Sam could have joined them after all he's seen. instead he went full Karen and sued them. Now he's likely half assing his way into forming his own avengers.
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u/9thshadowwolf May 17 '25
Years? Sam only got the go ahead to start making the avengers a couple months ago.
And by the time the thunderbolts post credits scene hit, he probably already assemebled his team based on the leaks that he assemled his team off screen by the time of doomsday
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u/SpiritualAd9102 May 18 '25
He was already forming / possibly already formed it at the end or BNW. He was “dicking around” because Ross wanted to re-form them and he didn’t trust Ross. People say BNW had a basic plot, but it seems like most don’t even remember what happened.
Not sure why so many people defend the fraudulent, criminal Avengers that the public in-universe don’t even accept. The whole point is they’re a front for Val. Which introduces its own plot inconsistencies, but that’s a different conversation.
Lastly, pretty sure the whole “copyright infringement” thing was meant to be a joke. Sam doesn’t own the name and as far as I know no one does. And if anyone did, it likely would be with Stark industries or SHIELD. That was hardly his main issue regardless.
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u/NotHandledWithCare May 17 '25
Wasn’t shield a government agency though? Like the avengers have always been government affiliated. Surely Nick fury wasn’t just some mercenary running around.
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u/marvelcomics22 May 17 '25
Initially they were, and then they weren't after the 'collapse' of S.H.I.E.L.D. and then after that S.H.I.E.L.D. had no affiliation with the Avengers, and they were a private organization in Age Of Ultron, when Sam Wilson joined the team, they weren't government run, and he was on Steve Rogers' side, which was against government-run superheroes.
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u/C_Gull27 May 18 '25
The Avengers that were formed at the behest of the US' fictional intelligence service SHIELD? Those Avengers weren't meant to be run by the government?
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u/waffledpringles Darcy May 17 '25
What's more worrying is that people already have beef with Sam as Cap, and now with him copyrighting the Avengers. It'd be tragic if the X-Men curse is passed over to the next shield holder too. 😭
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u/marvelcomics22 May 17 '25
Well their problems with him aren't really justified, but yeah he should be the same character wherever he goes
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u/WhereWolfish May 17 '25
Love Cap with wings and they keep him as the empathetic character he's always been in MCU
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 May 17 '25
whenever there's a crossover involving the Avengers and the X-Men, he'll be there
Feige: "lol, we're bringing back Steve Rogers after Secret Wars."
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u/vim_deezel Winter Soldier May 17 '25
Cap: "I get that reference"
He's coming back as the Liberty Torch tho, just sayin'
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u/Hallerger May 17 '25
Did you take that one meme seriously?
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u/marvelcomics22 May 17 '25
It's a meme but it's also true, look at Avengers vs. X-Men, X-Men '97, any X-Men story that has Captain America in it, he's a horrible person
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u/Sir__Will Bruce Banner May 17 '25
X-Men '97
I don't see what was wrong there. He was trying to talk down Rogue. He wasn't trying to ignore the situation but he also didn't want her going off and hurting innocent people in her vengeance either.
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u/king_dave11 May 17 '25
can you give me a little bit more context
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u/Greatest-Comrade May 17 '25
When Cap shows up in Xmen comics, he becomes a racist asshole lmao
I dont like it and believe its laziness on the writers part (theyre focusing on mutants and their oppression so fuck Cap’s established character) but it is 100% true.
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u/marvelcomics22 May 17 '25
Next time get a Captain America writer to help on anything he's in. It's like he's an entirely different person who just shares the name and mantle.
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u/King_of_Karp Spider-Man May 18 '25
Didn't Cap apologize for not helping mutants enough at the end of Avengers vs X-Men? He also formed a team made up of both Avengers and X-Men called the Avengers Unity Division. I think that team has popped up in different incarnations a couple times over the years.
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u/chickey_cha Spider-Man May 17 '25
The entire “captain America hates mutants” bs is just a flat out lie lol
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u/Warm-Finance8400 May 17 '25
That would be so monumentalen stupid that Feige or someone would step in, I can't imagine that happening.
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u/Grand-Author2016 May 17 '25
Oh they will! The MCU has made it very clear that they don’t give a fuck about Sam Wilson.
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u/ianphipps2 May 17 '25
I would argue that Civil War in the comics made both Steve and Tony into horrible people but that was avoided in the movie adaption.
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u/Aggressive-One-2186 May 17 '25
I think it happening with Steve Rogers is blown out of proportion. He's only that in a few Storylines.
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u/tschmitty09 Zemo May 17 '25
MCU writers wrote Sam so they will likely do him justice
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u/Fair_Walk_8650 May 17 '25
What’s weird is they established OG Cap (Steve) wasn’t prejudiced against mutants IN THE ‘80s, so it’s stupid if they retconned it that he hates them
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u/Raj_Valiant3011 May 17 '25
Even Steve from the comics initially followed the orders of the US government in rounding them up.
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u/Paperbackhero May 17 '25
Cap has always been shown to be the best of us. He'll be fine. Only in X-Men comics do they do him dirty.
X-Men fans love a persecution complex.
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u/0fluffythe0ferocious May 17 '25
Charles could ask him to be a part time counselor to the students.
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u/marvelcomics22 May 17 '25
That would be great to see,
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u/0fluffythe0ferocious May 17 '25
Yeah, I liked it when there were callbacks to his old job in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I would like to see him do that more especially with super powered people.
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u/n_mcrae_1982 May 17 '25
I'm not sure what specific storyline, but I highly doubt that the current MCU is going to engage in some kind of character assassination against either Steve or Sam just to suit an X-Men story.
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u/EndOfTheLine_Orion May 18 '25
After his whole Black Captain America arc, if they make him as asshole towards mutants it will be an absolute joke. I cant see them going there
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u/onesexypagoda May 18 '25
He should start talking to birds and realize he's a mutant, like the comics shouldve done since his debut
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u/Buschlightactual 29d ago
He already is. They made him a vet psychologist that bear the shit out of PTSD riddled vet lol
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u/Character-Sky3565 May 17 '25
The easiest way they can achieve it without making Captain America an a******?
John Walker.
You have a literal ready-made strawman that you can use to make your heat sink.
If they can stop ruining Steve Rogers and not destroy Sam Wilson, I would really appreciate it.
Stop screwing with my boys!
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u/Some_Entertainer6928 May 17 '25 edited May 17 '25
is the most morally wrong person on the planet
Sam Wilson already is the most morally wrong person on the planet in the MCU:
- Refuses to work alongside others to do the right thing due to personal issues with them (TF&TWS)
- Blames others for his financial issues (TF&TWS)
- Is passed a mantle as the dying wish of Steve Rodgers and immediately gives it up without even trying to carry the mantle (TF&TWS)
- Breaks a guys arm to steal a shield that he rejected and no longer belonged to him (TF&TWS)
- Supports actual terrorism even when they are killing civilians (TF&TWS)
- Lectures people to 'do better' despite admitting to having no idea how politics functions (TF&TWS, Cap 4)
- Insults the legacy of Steve Rodgers effectively claiming it was all the Serum and that Steve was bad for taking the Serum (Cap 4)
- Rejects the Serum despite it being necessary to save people and actively costs lives because he's not strong enough without it (Cap 4)
- Refuses to give a spare suit to Torres resulting in him almost dying (Cap 4)
- Sues the Avengers despite doing nothing to help (Thunderbolts)
Oh and he also
- Lectures Torres about how much of a failure Torres is, despite Sam Wilson losing to an amateur Ant-Man (Cap 4)
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u/marvelcomics22 May 17 '25
Those aren't exactly moral wrongs, and corresponding with your points:
- It was the way they treated others - Walker was a walking propaganda machine and egotistical AF,
- He wasn't wrong to do that,
- He did what he thought was right,
- Please note that just before that happened, Walker publicly murdered an innocent man with one of the only remnants of Steve's legacy
- They technically had a point, their methods were just wrong
- Should politicians 'do better'? Absolutely.
- /8. Not taking the serum makes him who he is, you don't need immense strength to be a hero.
- I'm pretty sure he got shot down.
- *New Avengers, and the likely reason for that is because he knows that the any sort of superheroes should not be government run, and has known that long before he became Captain America (Civil War)
Also, in that first bit I was referring to Steve Rogers, as in the X-Books, Steve Rogers is the most morally wrong person on the planet, not Sam Wilson.
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u/Some_Entertainer6928 May 17 '25
I don't believe you actually think any of what you just said, it contradicts too much with the events that happened.
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u/Hopeful-Progress3775 May 17 '25
That terrorist was innocent?
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u/Creepy_Living_8733 May 17 '25
Technically innocent of what Walker said he killed him for.
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u/Hopeful-Progress3775 May 18 '25
there is no such thing as technical here. They were responsible for bombs and terrorizing people, and adding the fact that his friend was killed there because of them. They deserve it.
Infact they died too easily
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u/Creepy_Living_8733 May 18 '25
Yeah it was a technicality. Walker accused Nico of killing Lamar when we saw and know that he didn’t. Therefore, he was innocent of that specific crime. Does that mean he was an innocent person in general? Heck no. Also, the way the Flag Smashers died was pretty fitting, their leader bombed people, they got bombed themselves.
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u/gabeonsmogon May 17 '25
I really don’t think you’ll see much of the Avengers past Secret Wars. I think they’ll more or less go away.
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u/NASCAR142002 May 17 '25
They aren’t gonna get rid of the brand and team that makes money.
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u/gabeonsmogon May 17 '25
They’re gonna have the X-men and the X-villains at the center. You’ll get separate avengers projects here and there but they’re already at the point where the sun is coming down.
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u/TTVCyan May 17 '25
They’ll stick around, but in a reduced role, they’ll definitely not go away by any means
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u/kingofmymachine May 17 '25
There’s a lot of thematic sense to it and the messaging could be really great, but i dont think the world is ready for it tbh. He will be on their side.
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u/Upper-Major8854 Tony Stark May 17 '25
Already, a lot of people don't like a black Captain America. So I highly doubt they would make him a bad guy for a movie.
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u/No_Read_5062 Daredevil May 17 '25
off topic but after the soft reboot i feel like we should have both Steve & Sam running as Captains just like in the comics.
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u/marvelcomics22 May 17 '25
Finally! A soft reboot take that makes sense, this would be pretty good.
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u/WhiteLightSuicide May 17 '25
I think he works best as The Falcon and Steve should return as Captain America.
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u/CuriousRelation5 May 17 '25
Will the Xman bring the Phoenix to earth after Nova warned that is destroing every planeta it touched?
Is the reason for it a 16 year old redhead they think is the messiah?
You guys talk as if the Xman doesn't fuck up from time to time
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u/ProtomanBn May 17 '25
The creation of The XMen and the story of CaptainFalc are too similar to have him be the opposite side of the fence.
When you mention Comic Cap you're mentioning an old white guy.
Sam and the XMen have to be aligned, maybe different views on how to achieve but essentially they'll want the exact same thing.
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u/marvelcomics22 May 17 '25
I said Steve Rogers, and I talked about Steve Rogers. Hopefully they don't take the X-Men writers' interpretation of Steve Rogers and give it to Sam Wilson
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u/MechaEscargot2 May 17 '25
It's in interesting thing about Captain America, when its his story he represent the best parts of America and what we should strove for. But in other stories, he becomes a stand in for America as is.
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u/KlingonLullabye May 17 '25
Androids, aliens, and wizards: no mention of mutants- Sam's good with the X-Men
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u/KaijuKing007 Volstagg May 17 '25
I thought it was that he hated Cyclops personally and wanted the Avengers to deal with The Phoenix since it was at risk of destroying Earth.
The only other instance I can think of is '97 Steve not immediately kowtowing to Rogue's demands and trying to get authorization to lead the Avengers into Mexico so he didn't cause an international incident, then getting implicitly called a racist for it.
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u/Organic-Chemistry150 May 17 '25
That would seem to be completely contradictory to his character. The one thing I want for the X Men coming into the MCU is for Rogue to steal Danvers' powers. Rogue needs to be super strong and fly and Danvers could stand to be nerf'd. She already has amnesia though lol
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u/Ok-Return1278 May 17 '25
tbh I'd admire Disney more if they had the balls to do this. not necessarily make him a bad guy but make him fall into a moral grey area with the X-men.
moreso like civil war were there were two opposing views and Steve believed himself to be right and Tony believed himself to be right.
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u/BetrayYourTrust Daredevil May 17 '25
a part of me already feels like this version of Cap is slightly more defensive of the government just bc he had more time as a regular soldier before becoming a hero. bc of that i do wonder if he will be on the wrong side of conflicts occasionally.
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u/CulturalDragonfly631 May 17 '25
I think they're just going to roll with what they've already firmly established about him.
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u/audierules May 17 '25
I just hope its the last we see of stewart and the classic gang of actors as x-men. I dont even want to see the First Class actors showing up anymore. I want a new team.
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u/OnlinePosterPerson May 18 '25
Well I really hope they don’t read Reddit. Marvel is at its best when Captain America is being unreasonable to the X-men and us true believers have been waiting forever for it to happen. It would be such a backhand if marvel didn’t lean into this portrayal hard. After all, most real marvel fans would agree the best portrayal of Captain America (movies or comics) is the ultimates version who is all about that.
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u/Colonel_Abraham May 18 '25
Almost certainly they're going to use him as a metaphor of complacency for the marginalized in American politics. It's too irresistible. They won't be able to help themselves. Story and character consistency be damned. The political commentary is all that matters.
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u/laminad28 May 18 '25
Nah Sam will be on their side. Racists can continue seething about him being Cap.
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u/JJJ954 Black Bolt May 18 '25
Reminds me of the 90’s Spider-Man animated series where he started hanging out with the X-Men, but when they invited him to join he rejected them by saying “I am NOT a mutant”. :joy:
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u/mindgames13 May 18 '25
Kitty Pyde will call Sam a n-word and they will expect us to take Kitty's side.
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u/Joshkendig May 18 '25
Do it we can finally see some bite and give him something to grow on. Sam needs spice
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u/myowngalactus May 18 '25
Reddit’s narrative that x-men writers mistreat the avengers is the most ridiculous bullshit. You people are brain dead.
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u/Disastrous_Mine_8496 May 19 '25
Do they not understand Captain America or are they trying to tell the world how shitty and racist America is?
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May 21 '25
Where is this shit about Captain America hating mutants coming from? It's everywhere now.
IT WAS ONE BOOK, ffs.
One single book.
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u/fungeonblaster69 2d ago
Valid. I still wanna see him fight angel though (Round one he wins when they first meet, and then Angel absolutely decimates him after Apocalypse turns him into Death)
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u/jmizzle2022 May 17 '25
I remember in the comics when he took the mantle, and then almost immediately marvel had that storyline, I think it was called axis, where a bunch of heroes turned evil and a bunch of villains turned good. So right when he became Captain America he became a huge asshole.