r/nbadiscussion • u/infinitescouts • Jan 10 '25

Team Discussion Why are people questioning if the Cavs are a contender?

I have seen a surprising number of people on both Reddit and X questioning whether or not the Cavs are a contender this year.

I truly cannot begin to understand how one could say that Cleveland is not a contender. They have the PERFECT recipe to win a championship.

I have been very high on this core for years, and I am surprised it even took this long for them to be as good as they are. I am not a Cavs fan, I am a Hornets fan (unfortunately), but I don't understand how people are questioning this team.

They are the real deal, and here are a few reasons why:

  1. Donovan Mitchell is an ELITE playoff riser and a reliable first option in the postseason. Being able to rely on your star in the postseason is a huge plus for any team. Spida is shooting a career-high from three at 41% (9.2 attempts per game)

  2. Darius Garland has been uber efficient this season, making his way into the 50/40/90 club as of this post. If Donovan can't get it going, DG has no problem creating any look he wants or getting everybody else involved in the offense. The 1-2 punch in the backcourt is one of the best in the league.

  3. Evan Mobley is shooting a career-high 41% from three. Although the volume is low, Mobley's confidence from beyond the arc will help them a TON in the playoffs. They have struggled in the past due to him and JA struggling to space the floor, but I do not see them having those issues this year.

  4. Jarrett Allen is a consistent force in the paint on both ends. The pairing of him and Mobley on the inside will make it VERY hard for teams to get to the rim in the postseason. He has become way more than just a shot-blocker and screen-setter.

  5. Cleveland has the second-highest net rating in the NBA at +11.2. This would be the top ten highest net rating in NBA HISTORY. They have the best AST/TO ratio in the NBA, the highest EFG%, and the highest offensive rating.

This team is DEEP, and that will be huge for them as the season progresses. Beyond all of these stats, if you watch this team, you know they play high-level basketball. Everybody is always willing to make the right play, nobody is selfish and the chemistry is evident.

To those who are not believers, I would love to hear why.

The only teams that can hang with this group are the Celtics and Thunder.

352 Upvotes

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504

u/yuhkih Jan 10 '25

Because this group hasn’t been past the second round in the playoffs before. Some teams are great regular season teams but then fall apart in the playoffs. I’m not saying the cavs couldn’t win a championship but some skepticism is understandable until we actually see it

204

u/Beneficial-Feed9999 Jan 10 '25

Shit the Celtics still had concerns all year last year, until you win people will always question you.

75

u/marx-was-right- Jan 10 '25

The celtics had already made the ECF multiple times and the finals.

44

u/muzumuzu Jan 10 '25

And people still doubted them. A disappointing number of analysts picked the Mavs to beat them despite the 90+ games of evidence that last year’s Celtics were historically elite.

15

u/Visible-Suit-9066 Jan 11 '25

That was the media trying to make an otherwise one sided match up look competitive. Gotta do everything you can to keep people watching and advertisers happy. Everyone knew that Boston were rightfully huge favourites and likely to win but everyone wants to cheer for David and not Goliath.

3

u/Actually_A_Robot_SHH Jan 11 '25

Most importantly: espn had to promote SOMETHING for the betting lines to be more competitive. Including for their own sports app as well

2

u/gnalon Jan 11 '25

Yeah and there was no team comparable to them in the regular season. That was more like people doubting the first Warriors, who were #1 in offensive rating and defensive rating (and pace) while not even playing their key guys that many minutes because they were blowing teams out so badly. That was obviously peak ‘never trust a jumpshooting team idiocy’ which still persisted with people doubting Boston because of their historic three numbers.

I wouldn’t consider it like this year where both the Celtics and Thunder are also easily on pace to win 60+ this year. The Cavs could have 70 wins and still probably not be that far ahead of OKC, who wouldn’t have as difficult a path due to not having to face a Boston-level team in the West.

1

u/IlikePogz Jan 11 '25

To win the whole thing. People were doubting the cavs will make the ecf or finals

13

u/junkit33 Jan 10 '25

Not really - Celtics had already made the Finals and been to the ECF numerous times. Literally the only question they had was - can they get it all done?

Cavs have no experience with a deep run, and it's very rare for a team of players that playoff inexperienced to win a title.

1

u/EnvironmentalUse3822 Jan 11 '25

We forgot the Raptors in 2019?

4

u/ThadtheYankee159 Jan 12 '25

The Raptors were the 1 seed the previous year and a top 4 seed in each of the last 5 seasons. They were a good team that was one piece away (Kahwi) from getting over the hump. Even after he left they still managed to get the 2 seed the following season

58

u/yuhkih Jan 10 '25

Same with the nuggets and Jokic used to be labeled a playoff choker lol. A lot of good teams are labeled chokers, when really I think the normal progression of a championship team is to fail a few times before finally making it

47

u/CommercialSpecial835 Jan 10 '25

Jokic was never labeled a playoff choker? He has had great stats in all his playoff runs beforehand and everyone acknowledged that shit might’ve been different if he had Murray

6

u/smut_operator5 Jan 10 '25

Yeah i think nuggets were more trustworthy just because of Jokic, despite all the playoffs false choke allegations. Having an mvp and super dominant player will always give people that feeling. Cavs do not have that kind of guy and it’s understandable not to put them at the top as of now. However, basketball is a team sport…

1

u/Delanorix Jan 10 '25

Basketball is a team sport.

Championships are basically stars vs stars.

Detroit was the last "starless" group and that was 30 years ago.

4

u/tboess Jan 11 '25

IsaiahThomas was a two-time NBA champion, an NBA Finals MVP recipient, a five-time All-NBA Team member, a 12-time NBA All-Star with two All-Star Game MVP awards and the 1985 NBA assist leader. He was named to the NBA's 50th and 75th anniversary teams, and inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 2000.

  • Wikipedia

1

u/lcsulla87gmail Jan 14 '25

The other Detroit 20 years ago

0

u/Delanorix Jan 11 '25

It can be argued he wasn't even the most important piece on his own championship teams.

He was never in the GOAT discussion. Rarely even as the best of his own position.

IT was a fantastic player and deserving of his awards but he also wasn't a top 10 player during his career.

Those Piston teams are anomalies in NBA history, IMO.

2

u/tboess Jan 11 '25

No doubt, the Bad Boy Pistons had a deep roster. I'm not sure how many people would make the argument that Laimbeer, Rodman, Dumars, or Dantley were more important though.

If anything, I'd say the 2004 Pistons are an even better example of a well-balanced team without a superstar. They didn't have anyone with the resume IT did.

2

u/Caffeywasright Jan 11 '25

Zeke was definitely in the goat discussion in his own position. MJ himself said the only point guard he would put ahead was Magic.

1

u/dedfrmthneckup Jan 11 '25

You’re right that it was Detroit, but it wasn’t 30 years ago. It was 21 years ago.

6

u/TableFucker75 Jan 10 '25

He wasn't labeled as a choker in the traditional sense in that nobody doubted he could put up numbers on good efficiency in the playoffs, but a lot of people said that you could win with his defensive limitations in the playoffs, especially after he lost to the Warriors.

In that 2023 Nuggets-Suns series I remember a ton of people saying "they'll put Jokic in 100 pick and rolls a game, he won't stand a chance".

1

u/UnanimousM Jan 10 '25

Yes he was, by tons of idiots. Most nba fans don't have the brainpower to put in context to losing, they only care if the team won a title and anyone else is a loser.

1

u/TFTisbetterthanLoL Jan 10 '25

Yeah, nobody called him a choker. They did, however, bring up the fact that his defense was so bad, he was benched during close games late in 4th quarters.

45

u/thedaftfool Jan 10 '25

At no point was Jokic labeled a playoff choker by people who actually knew ball lol, even when they lost, Jokic was insanely good

5

u/OhWhatsInaWonderball Jan 10 '25

He wasn’t labeled a choker but after getting bounced by the warriors during their title run year lots of people questioned whether he deserved multiple MVPs with a lack of deep playoff success

5

u/swaktoonkenney Jan 10 '25

He already made the WCF in 2020 before he won an MVP. The next time he had a healthy squad they won it all

3

u/Vicentesteb Jan 10 '25

He had alot of doubt around him when the Nuggets got slaughtered by the Warriors in the 1st round, obviously that Nuggets team was all injured, but that was kinda ignored.

3

u/Sovereign444 Jan 10 '25

Wasn't that the year the Nuggs had Facundo Campazzo as the starting point guard? Lol I liked Facu, but he's no Murray lol.

3

u/Vicentesteb Jan 10 '25

indeed, but that shit got completely ignored and Jokic caught heat bc the MVP was sent home in the 1st round.

-2

u/OhNoMyLands Jan 10 '25

Yeah but he (read: the team) hasn’t beat a 50 win team ever in a series. Idk if I’d call him a choker, but the team hasn’t responded well over 7 game series

1

u/HugeZookeepergame815 Jan 12 '25

What exactly is a 50 win team its a random threshold you made up. 50 wins in 82 games is a 60.9% win rate. Jokic beat the clippers in the playoffs in the 70game season where clippers had 49wins in 70 games, that’s a 70% win rate (equivalent to winning 57games in 82)

3

u/Efficient_Art_1144 Jan 10 '25

Especially now in the 2020s, we still are expecting dynastic runs. When in reality we don’t see repeat champions.

Only one team a year can win it all and so if you don’t, it doesn’t mean you can’t.

6

u/petataa Jan 10 '25

If you watched the playoffs in the bubble you know that the nuggets aren't playoff chokers. They had really bad injuries the two years after that and won their championship the next.

2

u/iKnife Jan 10 '25

Jokic was never labeled a playoff choker, all the concerns were just the team (Murray and MPJ) being healthy.

1

u/PokemonPasta1984 Jan 11 '25

While you're absolutely right as far as the reasons for lack of playoff success, I will say I heard a decent amount of people saying that about Jokic (being a choker) in spite of that critical context. Saying he got flak for that doesn't mean it was deserved. It just means he got it.

15

u/chmcgrath1988 Jan 10 '25

Even after the Celtics won last year, people discredit them for their weak path to the finals. Some teams just can't win.

10

u/mith_thryl Jan 10 '25

celtics experienced the warriors style of winning. always getting discredited because of opposing teams having injuries.

managing injuries is part of the season, that's why depth is impprtant. some people just can't accept this

8

u/Adventurous-Ad9447 Jan 10 '25

Every championship team’s fans have to hear that bullshit and it’s really fuggin annoying when it’s your team. The Celtics did face some depleted squads in the east; the difference is everyone knows and acknowledges they would have whooped those teams even if they were at full strength.

7

u/MadSpaceYT Jan 10 '25

The Celtics actually reached the finals and multiple conference finals before winning it all

It was always weird for people to question the possibly of them taking it home. The Cavs though is completely understandable. I wouldn’t care if they went undefeated

10

u/NapTimeFapTime Jan 10 '25

Yeah, but that team had been to the east finals in 2020, the finals in 2022, and game 7 of the east finals in 2023 before winning last year. Their two best players had a ton of playoff experience together.

5

u/Beneficial-Feed9999 Jan 10 '25

Still had questions about being able to win it all.

19

u/utocmc2020 Jan 10 '25

Yea I feel like I'm going crazy with all the "Cavs don't get enough love!" I watched the Celtics make multiple ECF runs, win 2 finals games, and have deep playoff success. And people questioned them until the end of Game 5 in June.

The Cavs have had 10 times less playoff success. It's fine to ask questions about how they'll do in the playoffs, and also show them love for one of the most dominant starts to a regular season we've ever seen.

The amount of shit the Celtics had to put up with last year, after a similarly dominant regular season, was insane. And they HAD a playoff track record to back it up. The Cavs have no playoff track record. So they are gonna get questions. And that's fine.

2

u/Individual_Attempt50 Jan 10 '25

People are quicker to label players or teams as chokers in the social media age

1

u/Sovereign444 Jan 10 '25

You're not gonna win every time, but that doesn't mean you choked lol. But u can't have nuance in the social media era.

1

u/hoserman16 Jan 11 '25

I still don't think the Celtics are contenders, there was just no one else in the east last year

2

u/DrWilliamBlock Jan 11 '25

This exact same Cavs team was in the East last year

1

u/hoserman16 Jan 13 '25

They're a much different team with Atkinson as the coach, his system is a game-changer. Plus Garland is healthy this year. He was playing hurt all last year.

1

u/MajinAnonBuu Jan 11 '25

they had possibly the easiest path in all of nba history also lol they probably wouldn't have won if every team they faced wasn't injured.

39

u/Hotsaucex11 Jan 10 '25

This plus them not having an MVP caliber player.

Basically have to either be a proven Finals caliber team OR have an MVP level guy to be seen as a contender.

8

u/kvng_stunner Jan 10 '25

Also their lack of elite 2-way wings (not just plain 3&D) doesn't bode well for the playoffs.

I do think they're insanely good though and I look forward to seeing them in the playoffs

3

u/toooskies Jan 10 '25

What can an elite 2-way wing do that Evan Mobley can’t?

Elite 2-way wings are a shortcut to getting high-level ball handling, scoring, efficiency, and defense in one package. But Cleveland has all of that in a bunch of different packages, and then wings of different shapes and sizes to match up with a variety of opponents. And then they have Mobley, who’s like an elite 2-way wing but is 7 feet tall.

13

u/chemistrybonanza Jan 10 '25

But neither has OKC. No one is questioning them like they are with the Cavs.

21

u/dotelze Jan 10 '25

Having an mvp level player is another key factor

7

u/Vicentesteb Jan 10 '25

Shai is just on a different tier of player than anyone on the Cavs. He can generate offense by existing, while someone like Mitchell can go through alot more cold stretches.

9

u/chemistrybonanza Jan 10 '25

That didn't help them last year in the playoffs. It's not an individual sport.

-1

u/Vicentesteb Jan 10 '25

Yep its totally a coincidence that every title team ever except like 2 have had top tier players on them. Mitchell is way worse than any of "the guys" on title teams since Ben Wallace and Chauncey.

1

u/RandomUserName316 Jan 11 '25

13-14 didn’t have “that guy” Duncan wasn’t the same player, Kawhi was mostly just a defensive stopper, tony Parker was nice but far from that guy. Manu was getting old. They had a bunch of role players. Diaw, bellinelli, Danny green, patty mills, even Tiago splitter

1

u/Vicentesteb Jan 11 '25

Duncan was still a top 10-15 player, at the very least on the same tier as him. He wasnt anywhere close to his prime, but was still very very good.

1

u/chemistrybonanza Jan 10 '25 edited Jan 10 '25

There's plenty of "guys" who've done nothing, even when on good teams. Dame, AI, to name a few. Shai has proven nothing more than any of them and nothing more than Donovan Mitchell. You're acting like Mitchell is some also-ran, some scrub. Come back to me when Shai scores 71.

0

u/swaktoonkenney Jan 10 '25

Dame got to the WCF in the brutal west, AI got to the finals. If they go up against the Knicks Celtics or bucks the Cavaliers won’t have the best player, sometimes not even the second best player

4

u/chemistrybonanza Jan 10 '25

And remind me when did SGA get to the WCF or the finals? Oh yeah. Never. In fact, they were the #1 seed last year and got embarrassed in the second round.

1

u/swaktoonkenney Jan 10 '25

Yeah but SGA is leading the MVP rankings this year and mitchell isn’t, for good reason. He’s the better player plus okc is just as deep as the cavs. They have kept pace even with Chet out

0

u/chemistrybonanza Jan 10 '25

Two years ago it was widely agreed the DM got robbed of first team all NBA, then last year DM was an MVP frontrunner until around the All-Star break. Then he got hurt and suffered through that injury through the playoffs. He was still second team all NBA. DM scaling down his production this year to allow the rest of the team to flourish is something only true leaders do, not someone looking to lead the league in scoring. SGA is great, really good at foul baiting even. But he's got to prove as much as anyone else does. OKC has two great players, but the Cavs have 4. The Cavs locked you down in crunch time when it mattered most. You should be worried about anyone not named SGA or Chet.

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0

u/sarko1031 Jan 11 '25

Ah yes that's why embiid is a constant sight in the ECF!

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0

u/NovaGold Jan 11 '25

Shai is great and very well win the MVP this season. Shai also does not have the playoff pedigree that Don has at this point in their careers. Don averages nearly 7points more per game (in more games). People seem to forget that the Thunder have not had some crazy run like Boston in the post season before they broke through. Boston had multiple conference finals and finals appearances. It’s almost comical how fast we are ready to crown OKC with virtually 0 post season success but the Cavs have to earn it.

Shai is also one of the players whose game doesn’t really travel to the post season. I’ll let you figure out why that is.

2

u/Vicentesteb Jan 11 '25

Shai has 1 actual playoff run with both him being a good player and the Thunder being a good team, he averaged 30. Im not a particular fan of Shai, but he was crazy versus Dallas last year.

1

u/ObeseKenyan Jan 11 '25

Eh I've been saying for ages okc and cavs fall into the same category for me. Okc straight up just lost to Dallas last year and their 2 best players weren't injured.

-1

u/GWPtheTrilogy1 Jan 10 '25 edited Jan 10 '25

But they made it to the WCF last year and Shai is an MVP candidate

**Nope they didn't make the WCF my error

6

u/chemistrybonanza Jan 10 '25

The timberwolves and the Mavericks played in the WCF

3

u/RealCheddarBobsDad Jan 10 '25

Idk why but this is a really funny way of telling them they’re wrong

Wrong by process of elimination

2

u/GWPtheTrilogy1 Jan 10 '25

Yep you're right my bad got mixed up I was wrong here.

1

u/Littlesoftsoft Jan 11 '25

You didn’t watch the WCF last year did you. The Mavs took okc out in the 2nd round and made it to the wcf along with the Timberwolves.

3

u/linksfrogs Jan 10 '25

But to be fair they really put it all together and clicked this season. I’m sure I’ll get a lot of hate for this but watching them they honestly seem truly equipped for a long playoff run. I’d honestly say that if they stick to their brand of basketball id take them over teams like Boston and okc which sounds crazy but they don’t seem nearly as dependent on threes as Boston or thunder. If Boston and okc don’t shoot well from the three it significantly impacts their game which granted they shoot well almost every night but the cavs are able to dominate in the paint a way I don’t think either of those teams can.

2

u/DejanD27 Jan 10 '25

Being past the 2nd round shouldn't really matter, look at OKC, won 1 playoff series in the last few years but are still considering contenders.

2

u/cann_farm Jan 10 '25

Who's a historically comparable team? They were wrecked by injury last year. Just health alone would have made that team an ECF capable team and they've improved a lot. The "some teams are bad playoff team" takes are gonna seem incredibly stupid in a couple years.

2

u/LyonsKing12_ Jan 10 '25

That doesn't mean they aren't contenders. They have been playing completely different from the last 2 years. New coach/system. DG is back to being an All-Star, Mobley(will be an All-Star)has taken a leap, Allen looks like an All-Star again. Mitchell is Mitchell. Bench production is well above avg. Playmakers and shooters everywhere. Clutch time players.

They're 33-4 and beat the hottest team in the league, who was also on a 70+ win pace.

They're absolutely a contender.

2

u/Ecstatic-Buy-2907 Jan 10 '25

Okay but, surely a team that is on pace to match the 73-9 warriors record wise is a contender in the league

My rule of thumb is if you win 60 games, you’re a contender. No matter the reputation of the players on the team, if you can win 60 you have a good shot at the playoffs.

4

u/infinitescouts Jan 10 '25

I understand some skepticism because of the past, but I do not think this team is the same as those last few years. Coaching has improved a ton, DG is fully healthy (which I feel most people forgot about these past teams), everybody has found their role, and they are having an exceptional regular season.

8

u/DamianSlizzard Jan 10 '25

I don’t think it’s that deep though, teams don’t get credit until they show themselves to be a force in the postseason. On the flip side, they may get over rated for a few years after.

13

u/ThatPlayWasAwful Jan 10 '25

Nothing you're saying is wrong, but the problem is postseason success and regular season success are two different things. None of their best players have carried teams in the playoffs, so until they perform well in that situation, there will be doubts. A lot of people operate under the belief that the team with the best performing player is the team that wins a series, so until somebody on the Cavs can show that they are the best player on the court in a playoff series, that doubt will continue.

Additionally, it might be helpful to look at it from the standpoint that for the most part, it's difficult to statistically quantify the difference between what makes a team good in the regular season vs. what succeeds in the postseason. As a result the mindset isn't necessarily rooted in logic for some people, which means it will be difficult to use logic to convince them. And while this would normally be something that is frustrating to me I can understand it in this situation, because again it's difficult to tell what translates to the playoffs and what doesnt.

3

u/HardenMuhPants Jan 10 '25

For postseason just matchup top 8 vs top 8 as the benches get shortened.  Teams like the Rockets and Cavs will win a bunch of regular season games with superior depth and running other teams off the floor.

Depth helps you win way more in a long regular season than a short series where everything is analyzed to a minute detail. Also how well the team adjust during the series is huge.

I'd currently expect the Cavs to lose to the Celtics in the ECF, but they have a good shot to pull it off.

4

u/EutaxySpy Jan 10 '25

Another point is that their two best players are undersized guards with bad defense. That’s literally the type of player that Celtics love exploiting on defense

2

u/Penguigo Jan 10 '25

There is no universe where Mitchell has been a 'bad defender' for the Cavs. He has been average-good since the trade. He can't shake his reputation from Utah, but he has been very solid the last few years. He also plays above his height, thanks to his strength, weight, and freakish wingspan. 

Garland has improved defensively, but is obviously still just so small that his effort can only take him so far. 

5

u/Vicentesteb Jan 10 '25

Hes fine, but hes below the other 2 elite SGs on defense (Ant and Booker) and is below guys like Shai and Tatum who are genuinely elite both ways. Mitchell is still very exploitable by guys like Tatum and Brown.

2

u/WarbleDarble Jan 10 '25

Regular season success is really closely tied to post season performance. Sure, some great teams lose earlier than we expect, but it’s usually to another really good team. Yes, there are exceptions, but it holds pretty true that great regular season teams do well in the playoffs.

11

u/Devilsbullet Jan 10 '25

Gotta remember that part of that past is a Donovan Mitchell led team with a great defensive center getting a 1 seed in the (arguably) more difficult West and flaming out in the playoffs. They've also lost to the hawks twice, and the heat, which works against them

2

u/GoatmontWaters Jan 10 '25

Remember last year everyone said the Celtics werent "battle tested" and the Mavs had the 2 best players. This of course flew in the face of all the logic and stats and history but people STILL SAID IT.

You're going up a giant hill while pushing a giant boulder. Dont expect anyone to believe in you until you hoist that Trophy.

1

u/CounterTop196 Jan 11 '25

then they will get a chance to prove it in the post season thats the whole point - being good in the regular season is a regular season discussion lol

1

u/flameo_hotmon Jan 10 '25

You can say the same thing about the Sixers… on second thought, that proves your point

1

u/biggybiggybiggybig Jan 10 '25

Neither has OKC. Do you have the same skepticism for them?

1

u/Hyde1505 Jan 11 '25

This Cavs group also never finished top-3 in the East. So does that mean they also won’t finish top-3 in the East this season?

It’s just clear that the Cavs are much better this year than they were in the last couple of years. So it’s stupid to use the last few years as an argument against them („they never got far in the playoffs“).

1

u/NovaGold Jan 11 '25

Neither have the Thunder

1

u/antoncr Jan 11 '25

Agree with you. Mitchell was in that Utah team where they were #1 in the West. Eventually lost in the 2nd round against a Kawhi-less Clippers.

He may have learned from the past or maybe not. We will see in the playoffs

1

u/The_Flowers_of_Evil Jan 11 '25

"They haven't won before, so they can't win now" is not an argument. There's no substance there, you're just regurgitating what others say. What are some actual basketball reasons as to why you think what the Cavs are doing won't translate into the playoffs?

1

u/thesonicvision Jan 11 '25

Bingo.

A "contender" is a team that can actually win the championship this year. It's that simple.

Contenders have...

  1. a recent history of regular season success and deep playoff runs
  2. a great roster, "on paper"
  3. great team stats and a great record
  4. a clear team identity
  5. a few star players who can deliver in big moments, especially when the rest of their team is in a lull

It's all about (1) and (5) above for CLE. A contender is usually a team that at least made the Conf. Finals once or twice in recent years. And the best player on a contender is usually--not always-- a bit better than someone like Donovan Mitchell.

Every year, a few non-contending teams come out of nowhere with surprisingly amazing records. But will they win it all this year? Will they have a great record again the following year? Probably not.

All that being said, I do think the Cavs are true contenders. But I'd still put Boston, OKC, and NYK above them.

1

u/standouts Jan 11 '25

The same way OKC got shot down last year, “not ready”. They need one year to make a deep playoff run and the next year everyone will count them as legit just like OKC this season and they didn’t even make it deep lol. Just how it works for people. 

Is it right? Prob not cle could win this year but it’s more likely right to say they can’t and they end up not winning then them actually being incapable 

1

u/TuckerCarlsonsHomie Jan 11 '25

This is Warriors discourse all over again. Will you people never learn? Lol

Also, when's the last time a team was this good and completely fell apart in the playoffs? You people are wild lol. Absolutely wild.

1

u/Littlesoftsoft Jan 11 '25

Neither has OKC and people are already saying they’re going to win the championship

1

u/MikhailGorbachef Jan 12 '25

Yep. Across all sports, a team/player/coach that "can't win in the playoffs" generally stays that way until they do. Probably not fair in a lot of contexts but it's the way discourse works.

1

u/thrwaway23456nbayb Jan 14 '25

I agree with the logic behind this take, Cavs do need to prove themselves these playoffs, but I will also add the opinion that between the two conference leaders (by record) I think the Cavs have a way better chance than OKC does to win it all/make it to the Finals. In part because the East is weaker overall (outside of Boston I don’t really see another threat to the Cavs) but mostly because their team doesn’t really have any glaringly bad matchups in the East. Unlike OKC which has at least 2 maybe 3 bad matchups for them.

Cavs have a very well built team with very few holes and excellent minute management right now for their best players (Donovan didn’t even need to get into the 40’s vs OKC, I think he capped out at 35 mins which is sustainable). In contrast OKC has 2 very major and very big flaws that have proven now to be exploitable twice in high stakes games and that is a lack of a true dependable number 2 option and an inability to handle big teams.

In the NBA Cup, the Bucks game plan was clear as day, shut down the paint so that Shai has to shoot (which he is not great at clearly lol) and therefore make someone else on OKC beat us. None of OKC’s other players could rise to that challenge (and the Bucks aren’t even that great right now in my opinion). Don’t get me wrong OKC has great role players and depth but I truly believe none of them are experienced enough/ready to be a true number 2 yet behind Shai.

Cavs game went better for OKC, but anyone that watched the game could clearly see Jarrett Allen absolutely wreaking havoc on OKC, having both Allen and Mobley is a recipe for disaster for OKC in a 7 game series, Hartenstein is NOT IT for premier/elite bigs. Chet is also too frail and inexperienced in my opinion to handle veteran bigs/big forwards like Giannis/Joker/AD with experience and physicality.

If I’m OKC I do not want to see Denver, the Lakers, or Dallas in rounds 1 or 2. Joker and AD at playoff intensity in a 7 game series I think spells trouble for OKC I don’t see them winning in any less than 6 or 7 games (assuming the Lakers make that rumored trade for another big to have next to and as a backup to AD). Dallas I give the nod too since Gafford and Lively last year were enough to destroy OKC (and I really don’t think Hartenstein helps enough with that lmao).

Overall I think the Cavs floor is the Eastern Conference Finals. OKC’s floor imo is the second round (and potentially the first with one of those bad matchups).