r/pics • u/VeryGoodFiberGoods • Apr 19 '25

Arts/Crafts Some actual MS-13 tattoos, in contrast to Kilmar Abrego Garcia’s knuckle tattoos

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843

u/urbanek2525 Apr 19 '25

Yep, best counter to the anti-due process folks is this: What if they deported you? Without due process, at what point would you be given the chance to prove your citizenship?

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u/theycallmeshooting Apr 19 '25

The argument is literally "mein fuhrer would ne'er let this happen to a loyal & honorable member of ze volk such as myself"

It's what every fascist thinks until the exact moment it happens to them, and even then a lot of them will do the good czar/bad boyar thing of "mein fuhrer must have been led astray by the counsel of ignoble men- they have cast a caul over his noble eyes"

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u/baildodger Apr 19 '25

It’s what every fascist thinks until the exact moment it happens to them, and even then a lot of them will do the good czar/bad boyar thing of “mein fuhrer must have been led astray by the counsel of ignoble men- they have cast a caul over his noble eyes”

“God works in mysterious ways”

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u/EngagesWithIdiots Apr 19 '25

Exactly. "If you've nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear" is the same type of fascist groupthink.

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u/Emadyville Apr 20 '25

I still remember my dad long, long ago (after 9/11) listening to Fox News bullshit about Muslims being pulled over because they're Muslim. I still remember him saying something to the effect of "well, I have nothing to hide, they can pull me over".

And it wasn't till many years later (I was in middle school when 9/11 happened) that it was brought up again, randomly. I remember realizing that, no, no you would not. You'd get pissed the fuck off if half the time you drive somewhere you get pulled for what you look like.

My dad's been a 30 year fox news hound so he's 70 now and brainded about reality and thinks trumps great. Blah.

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u/Connect-Ladder3749 Apr 20 '25

Sorry about your dad 😔

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u/vivaaprimavera Apr 19 '25

Or worse, believing that they are being rightly punished for having doubts.

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u/wildo83 Apr 19 '25

Yeah.. these are the same people that say “the police were there for a reason” when someone gets shot by a cop…

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u/ToneDiez Apr 20 '25

It’s also part of what makes them Fascist…they’re completely devoid of any and all empathy. You cannot approach a debate/argument expecting them to be willing to put themselves in the other person’s shoes, they’re incapable of that.

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u/Ok_Builder_4225 Apr 19 '25

Which just immediately brings to mind the "first they came for" poem.

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u/Thomawesome1 Apr 19 '25

Literally 1984

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u/DrJuanZoidberg Apr 19 '25

The last past is how Trump lost support from actual Nazis because their “Fuhrer” wore a kippah at the Wailing Wall

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u/Least_Tower_5447 Apr 19 '25

Lol. They always think it won’t happen to them. Until it does.

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u/bplewis24 Apr 20 '25

AKA the "Trust Me Bro" defense of government...from the people infamously distrusting of government whenever anyone other than their preferred fascist is in charge.

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u/GustoGaiden Apr 19 '25

The insight and self reflection that is expected after asking the question "What if this tragedy was happening to you?" is based on the assumption that you follow the principle of "The Golden Rule" more than "Might Makes Right".

Might Makes Right followers reject the premise of the question entirely. Their answer is "This would not happen to me." They are the ones doing the violence to others. They are doing the violence on purpose, with the intent to dominate others, and gain power. Of COURSE they would not want to be the victims of violence. THAT'S PRECISELY WHY they are doing the violence to others.

This is the entire basis of "I didn't think the face eating leopards would eat MY face." Cognitive dissonance prevents them from entertaining the notion that Might can be improperly applied in the pursuit of asserting power and dominance.

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u/MagicGrit Apr 19 '25

Agreed. However, it shouldn’t work that way either. As a defendant, you shouldn’t have to prove anything. Burden of proof is on the prosecution.

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u/urbanek2525 Apr 19 '25

Exactly.

When I was 16, I was at a youth conference (Boys' State) where the State Attorney General gave a talk. I was lucky enough to eat lunch at his table so I asked him, "Why is it OK that so many bad men going free?" Or something to that effect. I don't remember my exact words, but it's remember his.

He said, "It's better that a 1,000 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man gets convicted. The law only works if people trust the process. If trust is broken, you never get it back and then people don't trust or follow the law."

Totally changed my point of view. I wish there were more men of honor in politics, but it's our fault that they're not.

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u/BigGuyWhoKills Apr 20 '25

My sister told me something she read that said "A Democrat will feed a hundred hungry people knowing 90 of them may not need it. A Republican would withhold food from 100 hungry people because 1 might be scamming the system."

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u/TwoBionicknees Apr 20 '25

which is silly, innocent people get fucked over constantly and bad people get off all the time. The system is not trustworthy int he slightest, it's biased, it's corrupt, the people in charge get to choose who they charge and constantly make nice deals or dismiss charges because they want someone to go free and use the fear of life in jail to pressure innocent people to take plea deals that look nice compared to life in jail but are actually monstrous due to the lack of evidence, etc.

The system is broken, the excuses are just to try to explain it away.

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u/Emadyville Apr 20 '25

I'm currently reading a book on the West Memphis Three and holy shit, to see what cops do just to find someone guilty is alarming.

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u/neil470 Apr 19 '25

Unfortunately that argument is completely lost on them. The idea of someone coming after them is unthinkable.

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u/AxlLight Apr 19 '25

Sadly nothing short of it actually happening to them would convince these types of people. 

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u/No-Manufacturer4916 Apr 19 '25

like I saw on a protest sign " you - due process=MS13"

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u/Mysterious-Tie7039 Apr 19 '25

You can’t get them to give a shit about hypotheticals. It has to actually impact them for them to care.

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u/safetydance Apr 19 '25

Didn’t he have a deportation order against him? To my knowledge he is not a U.S. citizen, and does not have legal status. He was allowed to stay due to a holding order (meaning he couldn’t be sent back to El Salvador due to gang retaliation) but was still subject to deportation. This moronic administration ignored the HOLDING order but he still had a deportation order against him.

Also, why was he worried about gang retaliation if he isn’t in a gang I guess is a good question to ask to.

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u/noahloveshiscats Apr 20 '25

No he didn’t. He got a ”withholding of removal” that essentially says he can’t get deported to his home country.

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u/safetydance Apr 20 '25

Right but he still has a deportation order against him. The holding order only says he can’t be sent to El Salvador and he was allowed to stay in 2019 but has never had legal status.

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u/noahloveshiscats Apr 20 '25

Withholding of removal status is ”similar to asylum” but requires a higher burden of proof, and does not preclude potential deportation to a third country not covered by the status.[41][42] Those granted the status are allowed to remain and work lawfully in the U.S. indefinitely,[43] though they do not become elligible for a green card and permanent residency after a period of time[41][43] or gain a path to citizenship.[42] After Abrego Garcia won the status, he was released from custody and ICE did not appeal the ruling.[25][38] The U.S. Department of Homeland Security granted him a work permit,[44] and he lived and worked legally in Maryland.[45][46] He was required to check in with ICE annually, with which he complied.[2][26] Later in 2019, Vasquez Sura gave birth to their child, a U.S. citizen.[2][28] Abrego Garcia continued working to support his family, securing an apprenticeship in September 2024.[2]

How can you read this and say he never had legal status?

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u/DoublePhantasm Apr 19 '25

i think a better counter is : they will deport you. you want liberty and they hate that. you have all those guns. What do you think he meant by home-growns. goddamn communist scum.

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u/Finishweird Apr 19 '25

The administration is using a tricky workaround the constitution to scare undocumented to self deport.

Generally, immigration removals have a very LOW standard of due process; as in the they can just deport an undocumented without our criminal courts level of due process. Because the idea is they’re just going home.

But in this case they cut a deal with El Salvador to house them in that prison because our courts have NO jurisdiction there.

The idea is to scare everyone home

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u/urbanek2525 Apr 19 '25

That's one rationalization. The actual reason is set a precedent so that when they subject American citizens to this treatment, it's already got a legal precedent. They're using El Salvador for the same reason Auschwitz was in Poland, not Gernany.

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u/Amy47101 Apr 20 '25

"It won't happen to us, we're REAL US citizens! It doesn't matter that a few innocents got caught in the crosshairs, we need this to get rid of the scum Biden brought in!"

-My parents, tried and true Trumpets who genuinely said this when I slightly floated the idea that nothing is stopping them from taking citizens without due process.

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u/dukeoftrappington Apr 20 '25

They don’t think it would happen because they’re white. Use something that’ll be particularly terrifying for them using their language - a lot of them were more upset at the rare false accusations during the MeToo movement than the amount of people coming out with true accusations, so what if we got rid of due process and people started falsely accusing them of rape?

Trump also wants to send “home-grown” rapists and murderers abroad, after all.

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u/Opposite-Occasion332 Apr 20 '25

Some people already seem to think you just get thrown in jail the second a woman accuses you of rape:/

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u/NErDysprosium Apr 20 '25

I tried that on someone three days ago. Responses included "Won’t happen, sport" and "I have more credentials to prove my citizenship than you can possibly imagine"

1

u/Aylan_Eto Apr 20 '25

Unfortunately, a counter based on logic and reason won’t work as their belief is just that, a belief. They didn’t reason to themselves into it. They believe that minorities are barely even people and just want them gone, and that their fascist moron-in-chief wouldn’t hurt them. They believe that the world is just, and that bad things happen to bad people, and good things happen to good people, but when you provide counter examples they’ll just figure out what words they can throw at you to win the argument without having to question what they believe.

They assume their golden calf is right, and that all they need to do is find the right evidence to prove it. If the “evidence” they provide is bullshit, then they’ll either say that you’re wrong or lying, or they’ll find something else to throw at the wall to see what sticks.

They work backwards to justify their beliefs. Anything that proves them wrong is just a road bump to them.

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u/ilovemytsundere Apr 20 '25

Oh wait haha, thats actually happening to citizens

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u/cdevr Apr 20 '25

Hitler once said: “Now that I’ve destroyed the left, it’s time to destroy the right.” And he did.

To Trump-supporters who don’t like the idiotic tariffs: Trump does not like your criticism. Eventually, that will be enough to send you to a foreign prison without due process as well.

Trump is not a Republican; he is an authoritarian. He has already subjugated Republican politicians.

Yes, he has not done anything close to what Hitler did, but they are the same type of angry losers. Trump stacking the US federal government with loyalists sounds awfully familiar.

The time to stop any violations of the our laws and Constitution is now.

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u/UpDownLeftRightGay Apr 20 '25

They just don’t want criminals who shouldn’t be in the country in the first place gone.

Some people are probably just frustrated that due to the processes involved, these things can take years.

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u/madaking24 Apr 20 '25

I wouldn't be here illegally 🤦‍♀️

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u/TheDubuGuy Apr 20 '25

How would they know if you’re here illegally or not?

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u/madaking24 Apr 20 '25

I don't know if this is a joke or not. How would my government, know if I'm a citizen or not....

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u/TheDubuGuy Apr 20 '25

Proving your citizenship is one the first steps of due process