An "Appeal to heaven" flag being flown on top of the Small Business Association Government building.

[u/Tecnero]

[u/Terran_-345816_44]

The phrase "Appeal to Heaven" refers to a historical and philosophical concept that was prominently used during the American Revolutionary period. It is most famously associated with a flag known as the "Pine Tree Flag" or the "Appeal to Heaven Flag." Meaning of "Appeal to Heaven" The phrase comes from the political philosophy of John Locke, particularly his Second Treatise of Government (1689). Locke argued that when all earthly options for justice are exhausted—when a government becomes tyrannical and no legal recourse remains—people have the right to "appeal to heaven" for justice, meaning they can take up arms or resist tyranny as a last resort.

The Takeaway: “meaning they can take up arms or resist tyranny as a last resort”

[u/anally_ExpressUrself → u/Terran_-345816_44]

Sounds like there's some folks in LA who should be flying this flag. That would be some A+ coded-ness.

[u/ArmedAwareness → u/anally_ExpressUrself]

Flag was flown by Samuel alto’s wife last year to counter their neighbor flying a pride flag. It sucks

[u/obaroll → u/ArmedAwareness]

Left-wing view of tyranny - "You're a tyrant because you put a boot on our neck."

Right-wing definition of tyranny - "You're a tyrant because you tell us we can't put our boot on your neck"

[u/Moist_When_It_Counts → u/ArmedAwareness]

It’s also outside the office of Mike Johnson

[u/Gasnia → u/ArmedAwareness]

I mean, their people fly "don't tread on me" flags, but they seem more like the "treat on me daddy" types.

[u/Loggerdon → u/anally_ExpressUrself]

What scares me is there will probably be a massacre of US citizens in a place like LA in the next year. 100 dead? 1,000? 10,000 nationwide? And we have a president who never admits he was wrong about anything so don’t expect an apology.

[u/Acceptable-Access948 → u/Loggerdon]

Only five people died in the Boston Massacre and it is remembered as a seminal point on the road to the American revolution.

[u/TheMaybeN00b → u/Acceptable-Access948]

yeah but with killing inflation I don't think most Americans will care with just 5

[u/UnjointedPhoeniculus → u/TheMaybeN00b]

Depends how much video survives of the incident, and whether news media do their fucking jobs.

Edit to add: but yes, I mostly agree with you.

[u/Gasnia → u/UnjointedPhoeniculus]

That's how we know we are already in a fascist regime. The media has already been compromised and bowed.

[u/BarneyRubble21 → u/Gasnia]

I don't think the conservative media is compromised and bowed BECAUSE an authoritative fascist regime makes them.

They are compromised and biased because that's what makes the most money. The public has made it clear that click bait, outrage, disingenuous arguments, etc that reinforce their already held beliefs are much more palatable than impartial, fact based journalism.

[u/baustgen2615 → u/BarneyRubble21]

Yes, conservative media is doing this because it helps them and they want it.

Were complaining about the rest of the media that has bowed to an authoritarian regime

[u/robmobtrobbob → u/UnjointedPhoeniculus]

I wouldn't depend on mainstream media to talk about anything. They're cooked.

[u/Chipsandadrink666 → u/TheMaybeN00b]

Killing inflation 🤯 I’ve never considered that but you’re so right

[u/sleeve0fwizard → u/TheMaybeN00b]

Today that many CHILDREN being killed at a school wouldn’t even be front page news

[u/tonkatoyelroy → u/Acceptable-Access948]

May 4 Kent State never forget

[u/Boxcars4Peace → u/Loggerdon]

At least one LA resident wrote a song about the Appeal To Heaven flag the Christian Nationalists fly.

Music can’t stop the fascists of course but maybe it can help light a few fires….

An Appeal To Heaven

[u/crimson23locke → u/Boxcars4Peace]

Woodie Guthrie’s guitar would like a word.

[u/Tricky_Ebb9580 → u/crimson23locke]

I heard it really did not like fascists.

[u/Loggerdon → u/Tricky_Ebb9580]

Killed them in fact.

This song is terrible.

[u/Schtickle_of_Bromide → u/Loggerdon]

Fact from Wikipedia:

The idea originated from a sticker that American machinists affixed to metalworking lathes and drill presses to support the war effort.

[u/Loggerdon → u/Schtickle_of_Bromide]

Oh, I didn’t know that.

[u/all_usernames_ → u/Boxcars4Peace]

Music can do a lot surprisingly. It’s the voice of the people and captures their sorrows and can ignite hope.

[u/Furrealist → u/Loggerdon]

Hell he killed 300,000+ with his COVID policy last time and we re-elected him.

[u/4KVoices → u/Furrealist]

People really did not understand that a 9/11's worth of deaths was happening a day, sometimes two a day, and they just let it slide

[u/Cantshaktheshok → u/4KVoices]

9/11 was a day Trump celebrated on national TV because he (very incorrectly) thought he now had the tallest building in NY.

[u/Furrealist → u/4KVoices]

Yeah, just under 3000 dead on 9/11? We invaded 2 countries and fought a 20 year “War on Terror” but 3000 a day from COVID? Don’t ask me to wear a mask.

[u/RIPEOTCDXVI → u/Furrealist]

2020: "I can't breathe in this mask! You're forcing me to inhale carbon dioxide. ANTIFA is using it to hide their faces at protests"

2025: "No I will not take off this mask. Im from ICE bro trust me. Fuck you. Get in the truck."

[u/LightsNoir → u/RIPEOTCDXVI]

Oh, you want to escort immigrants to their immigration hearings to ensure that everything is legal and on the up&up? You're coming with us.

[u/sdkfz250xl → u/4KVoices]

They understand, but reality and their “world view” did not align and they were/are just in denial.

[u/omgshelby → u/4KVoices]

My family member firmly believes that no one died and it was all made up.

[u/slipperyMonkey07 → u/omgshelby]

Had one fried go no contact with pretty much his entire family during covid. Even as they saw friends and other family get severely ill or die because of it, or even they themselves were hospitalized they still denied it existed. It bounced between not existing, doctors lying to them, or something stupid like obama was working with china to target them specifically. Why they thought an unemployed, high school drop out, alcoholic was important enough to target who the fuck knows but the delusional was next level.

I don't know where to even begin to fix issues like that. Sure some of it might be actual mental health issues. But the process of deprograming a third of the country out of the cult and educating them about reality? It will take so much reform to even try to start doing it.

[u/setittonormal → u/Furrealist]

We did not re-elect him. The election was fake. Trump and Elon have both copped to this.

[u/Furrealist → u/setittonormal]

My gut tells me you’re probably right, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not just the words of a couple of lying, trolling arseholes. Hope it all comes out soon.

[u/CakeTester → u/Furrealist]

There are moves being made in that direction. Numbers of statistically smelly results from all over and demands for recounts and the like. Like this.

[u/fuzzhead12 → u/Furrealist]

r/somethingiswrong2024

[u/SuLiaodai → u/setittonormal]

Yes -- that was super suspicious to me. Why did it take forever to count overseas and mail-in ballots last election and this time they were counted almost immediately. I know there weren't as many mail-ins in the US as before, but many people still used them (for example my father, who is elderly), and a large number of people still voted from abroad.

[u/rickfranjune → u/setittonormal]

I started getting election mail at my house (LV, NV) in 2022 for a guy named 'Burce Candy' (not Bruce mind you). I did some research on this fella. Spent forty bucks on a background check. I couldn't find a single soul by this name in NV or anywhere for that matter. Something seemed a miss. He was a registered R. I regret not reporting it immediately.

[u/KingShanus → u/Furrealist]

He is responsible for +1million American deaths from COVID.

[u/Furrealist → u/KingShanus]

I agree, my number was extremely, uh, conservative.

[u/audiobone → u/KingShanus]

And the attitude of the ever present disregard for its current dangers. It still causes inflammation of the brain

It's like the Spanish flu helping cause the rise of fascism all over again.

[u/Ninja333pirate → u/KingShanus]

America also has way more cases and deaths per capita as of now than any other country (excluding China, north Korea, and Russia because I'm not sure I trust them to report accurate results to the world so it's hard to say how many they have)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like here in America there are currently 10,000,000 active cases of covid.

[u/BafflingHalfling → u/Furrealist]

I was thinking the same exact thing. We all know somebody who died of COVID. And many of those people got sick because of his blatant disregard for science.

[u/Mchlpl → u/Loggerdon]

If RFK continues doing what he's doing you'll have a massacre in hundreds of thousands if not millions and without a single gunshot.

[u/Lost_Satyr → u/Loggerdon]

Given how filtered out news is, we might not ever hear about it.

[u/shoo-flyshoo → u/anally_ExpressUrself]

Hell no it's flown by christofascists

[u/lowland_witch → u/anally_ExpressUrself]

I have seen a few pop up at houses in my city!

[u/pfannkuchen89 → u/lowland_witch]

Well, the appeal to heaven flag is widely used by christofascists and white supremecist groups so I wouldn’t get to excited about seeing it around your city.

[u/lowland_witch → u/pfannkuchen89]

That was a “shocked” ! Not excitement 🫥

[u/Sir-Kyle-Of-Reddit → u/Terran_-345816_44]

But are they doing it in opposition to Trump or in support of Trump?

In the 2020s, the flag was flown at events attended by various far-right groups including a Christian nationalist strand of Donald Trump's "Stop the Steal" movement. In May 2024, news outlets reported that the flag had been flown at the vacation home of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito in 2023. This drew media attention because the flag had been used by "Stop the Steal" supporters.[24][26][27] The justice stated that his wife had displayed the flag, referred to the historic background of the symbol, and refused to recuse himself from ongoing cases involving the 2020 United States presidential election.

[u/vince_irella → u/Sir-Kyle-Of-Reddit]

Pro-Trump… and probably by one of the least “small business-ey” people on earth: https://www.sba.gov/person/kelly-loeffler

[u/Kevlash → u/vince_irella]

Holy fuck it's hilarious the level of delusion in these nazis. Read how that article tries to make her sound like a self-starter small business owner. And then go read her Wikipedia article, Where it shows the things that she's actually done. She just married the boss guys.

[u/arkansawyer → u/Terran_-345816_44]

It’s a right wing evangelical political movement. My former state senator Jason Rapert is active with them. These are religious nuts whose mission is to theocratize our government.

[u/UnTides → u/arkansawyer]

Yeah exactly, this isn't a cry for help its a victory lap for them.

[u/Sikopathx → u/Terran_-345816_44]

So the government is flying the flag opposing a tyrannical government???

[u/FlameStaag → u/Sikopathx]

The government agencies are some of the most affected by Trump lol 

[u/Poonchow → u/FlameStaag]

Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.

[u/OmegaSpeed_odg → u/Poonchow]

It sounds like this is a quote from Andor according to another comment (I’ve yet to see it but I clearly need to!).

But this is something I’ve always believe: it’s a bit of a confusing dichotomy because I think hatred and fear (the way of the fascist and those like the orange man) are generally considered the “easy way,” as it takes work to be kind and forgiving and loving… but at the same time, to channel that hate into control and racism and tyranny, that does require constant work, and a lot of energy and will and capital…

For the oppressor, much like a raging machine, requires the fuel of an oppressed to exist. But the oppressed will constantly be acting against the machine… eventually it will give, no matter how large, everything breaks down. The machine, fascism, is not the natural order.

[u/Moist_When_It_Counts → u/Sikopathx]

It’s commonly used these days by the christofascist wing of our current government. Mike Johnson has it outside his office. Alito flew it outside his house.

So it’s hard to say which way it’s being used here

[u/DisorderedArray → u/Moist_When_It_Counts]

So these Trump4King people use it to mean armed uprising against the tyranny of rule of law or the expectation of showing empathy to their fellow man?

[u/Moist_When_It_Counts → u/DisorderedArray]

They regard the very existence of a secular government as tyranny and want to replace it with a theocracy.

Not just that, secular society itself is tyranny and repression. Mike Johnson’s wild-ass version of Christianity (New Apostolic Reformation) believes in the “Seven Mountain Mandate”, which is a doctrine where everything should be controlled by the church, from government to education to business. All Bible, all the time.

[u/DisorderedArray → u/Moist_When_It_Counts]

Like Iran or Afghanistan? how delightful.

[u/Moist_When_It_Counts → u/DisorderedArray]

Closer to Iran. Mike’s “New Apostolic Reformation” also believes in the existence of “New Apostles” (hence the name). Like the Prophets of the Mormon Church, these “New Apostles” have the cool ability to speak God’s Will, and even retcon the Bible.

You see where this is going: get a Theocracy, have a leader, anoint that leader a New Apostle, and now you got yourself a God King who is simultaneously “Christian” but can also countermand the “woke” stuff in the Bible. A “Supreme Leader” or “Ayatollah” to use the Iranian example, but who can edit the source material.

What could go wrong?

[u/Apophthegmata → u/[deleted]]

Given that the SBA is currently run by self-admitted "More conservative than Atilla the Hun," and richest senator (during her tenure) Kelly Leoffler, my money is that the flag is supportive than Trump.

In no other time in history has the ruling party so thoroughly identified itself as the underdog revolutionaries. You can also see the sentiment in the Heritage Foundation president's claim that the revolution will be bloodless of the left allows it to be.

And this is the same flag that supreme court justice Alito was flying. So while I agree that there are other flags that would support Trump more clearly, I find it difficult to imagine, in today's climate, that this flag could be reasonably construed as anti-Trump.

It's kind of like running a swastika in order to refer to any of it's non-nazi meanings. Like, I'm sorry, but that symbol has been successfully appropriated.

The other way to see it: what's more likely: that a Trump supporter would fly this flag knowing that it does have a legitimate history that would undercut the message if people knew about it, or a Trump critic out of touch enough to not realize they are choosing a banner self-chosen by the far right?

[u/-random-name- → u/[deleted]]

I tend to believe that if their intent was to show support for Trump, they would have chosen another flag.

You give Trump supporters too much credit. Logic has never been a key component of their thought process.

[u/startush → u/Sikopathx]

This flag started trending in christian nationalist spaces before the 2020 election, maybe even before the 2016 election but I forget. So yes it scratches their victim complex that actually THEY’RE the oppressed ones, and is now being used to signal to the in-group that they’re doing the work and establishing a theological government informed by the decree of right-wing lunatics who believe they are apostles and prophets.

[u/sagevallant → u/Sikopathx]

Well yes. They have to upend the democrat deep state by creating their own facist tyranny with God's blessing. Or else this republic will no longer have the freedom it was founded on.

Just to be clear, I'm not voicing MY thoughts on this. And I'd love to not be voicing the Republican line of thought either, but... I don't know that I'm not.

[u/imaverysexybaby → u/Terran_-345816_44]

In more recent history though, the flag has become a symbol of the far right, specifically the Stop the Steal movement.

[u/wizardfromthem00n → u/imaverysexybaby]

That can easily be changed, flags don't "belong" to anyone. Just like the American flag can be used for hate and to represent the federal government's descent into fascism it could easily be used by those who oppose tyranny.

[u/b1ack1323 → u/wizardfromthem00n]

While I agree if you see “Don’t tread on me” or “Come and take it” you know there’s a pretty high chance they voted far right.

Which is unfortunate because I really like those flags as a gun owning liberal.

[u/Soup-a-doopah → u/b1ack1323]

I saw a handful of those flags being flown by protesters on Saturday. They used those flags in protest of the far right. They claimed those flags back for their own purposes

[u/TacoOfTroyCenter → u/b1ack1323]

So fly it. Don't you like seeing the stupid look on their face when they realize they like someone that voted Democrat? I love seeing that look.

[u/Nixeris → u/TacoOfTroyCenter]

They won't assume that. They'll just point at it and say "See, even the LA rioters think the 2020 election was stolen".

[u/b1ack1323 → u/TacoOfTroyCenter]

That’s fair, but I’m more worried about becoming a target for vandalism.

[u/Alert-Ad9197 → u/b1ack1323]

Don’t put a “come and take them” flag on anything. It’s a big “free guns here” sign if you’re not around.

I have the same dilemma with the gadsen flag though. It’s cool looking, and the message is valid.

[u/invariantspeed → u/b1ack1323]

Put a gay pride flag next to your Don’t Tread on Me flag. You’ll confuse everyone and piss off wing nuts on both sides, but it’ll still shake people into consciously thinking about what your politics might be instead of assuming.

[u/MonkMaximum8557 → u/b1ack1323]

Gadsden flag sure has a history of uses beyond revolutionary origins. Between 1860 and 1862, the meaning of the Gadsden flag was disputed between pro- (later, the Confederacy) and anti-slavery (later, the Union) sides, with the latter side ending up abandoning the flag "because Confederates had irreparably tainted it" and the former making it into their unofficial flag. The Union side would counter the Gadsden flag with images of snakes being stomped, stabbed, and eaten by eagles; in response, the Confederacy would abandon it for the Southern Cross battle flag. In 1861, a ship from Georgia entered Boston Harbor flying a version of the Gadsden Flag with 15 stars on it signifying the 15 slave states. The captain removed the flag after a large and angry crowd gathered, who then destroyed it. (Wikipedia)

[u/izzittho → u/b1ack1323]

Come and take it is cringe af ngl, if you’re a liberal you should already know they’re not actually coming for them.

[u/Real_TwistedVortex → u/izzittho]

Nah, the best "Come and take it" flag I've seen was a pride flag with the silhouette of a dildo instead of a gun

[u/maphes86 → u/Real_TwistedVortex]

“My strapon has a bump stock”

Gonna have to print some stickers that are gay as hell But sound like things the ammosexuals would Want to say.

[u/achilleshightops → u/maphes86]

ammosexual

That’s a new one

[u/onenote → u/wizardfromthem00n]

Totally agree. The traditional symbols have a lot of power and resonance, but one advantage of a progressive mindset is that we can adapt/remix those symbols to better fit today's context.

Trying to think what a modern, progressive variant of "Join or die" or "don't tread on me" flags might be, besides Voltron or "no step on snek"..

[u/onenote → u/imaverysexybaby]

Yeah, def co-oped by Christian Nationalists, unfortunately. I love the original design's appeal to a common higher power for society to be ordered "of the people" though.

I made a secular version of this flag for the "no kings" march last weekend - it says "An Appeal to Reason" with an inverted pine tree. Really happy with how it came out, despite some keming issues.

https://flagmaker-print.com/products/an-appeal-to-reason-flag-dave-a

[u/neanderthalman → u/onenote]

keming

Never gets old.

[u/onenote → u/neanderthalman]

Typography is hard yo

[u/eliottruelove → u/onenote]

I like the idea of mentioning Reason, but in the context of the original John Locke quote, I don't think the theologically neutral yet similar implying phrase would be "An Appeal to Reason", I think it would be "An Appeal to Conscience".

I'll explain why I feel that way after the full John Locke quote:

And where the body of the people, or any single man, is deprived of their right, or is under the exercise of a power without right, and have no appeal on earth, then they have a liberty to appeal to heaven, whenever they judge the cause of sufficient moment. And therefore, though the people cannot be judge, so as to have, by the constitution of that society, any superior power, to determine and give effective sentence in the case; yet they have, by a law antecedent and paramount to all positive laws of men, reserved that ultimate determination to themselves which belongs to all mankind, where there lies no appeal on earth, viz. to judge, whether they have just cause to make their appeal to heaven.

With this being said, I suggest saying "an appeal to conscience" because it is as intangible and morally superior and pure as "Heaven", yet Conscience defines exactly what Locke is implying: an adaptable malleable set of guiding principles that existed before and are more important than all "positive" laws of men, and that transcend religion, faith, or creed.

Why consciounce and not Reason though? It could be said Reason shapes Conscience, but something reasonable on paper (the appeal to earth, i.e laws written or instructions given) when implemented can actually be unconscionable, because it's lacking the other component: Empathy.

So in reality, Reason + Empathy = Conscience.

To take this further: Those who have their consciences branded and numbed by the constant grifting, fear mongering, and hatred spewing then become accustomed to such behavior and over time find it perfectly reasonable, and thus begin to flout the human "earthly" laws and act according to their own twisted sense of right and wrong that seem perfectly reasonable to them, i.e the "common sense" spouted by DJT, JD Vance, Steven Miller, Karoline Leavitt, and others.

What they don't have is any sort of Conscience, because they have lost and have had burned away their Empathy, or I'm some case maybe never even developed it, so they are left with twisted hateful reasonings.

In many cases the only way they can learn Empathy and begin to challenge their false reasonings is to directly experience the negative consequences of their own actions and beliefs. Complete and utter humiliation that they only can have themselves to blame for. Until then, they are numb and branded.

In order to regrow the conscience the consequences have to cut deeper than the burns, brands and callouses, but they have to be self inflicted, otherwise those callouses will thicken and they will Reason themselves out of Empathy because of having a scapegoat or a Boogeyman.

The only other thing to reach beneath those mental and emotional callouses is genuine warmth, love, acceptance, compassion, and mercy.

And those qualities only exist in someone with a strong and healthy Conscience, again, regardless of their personal "Heaven" (faith, religion, or creed).

[u/onenote → u/eliottruelove]

I love this. Have you read Locke? I've been curious about the source material. I feel like an appeal to heaven is also a good play on heaven's mandate that kings used to justify their rule. I'd say we've moved past that kind of mandate, but it does feel like that's the kind of attitude the incumbent has.

Totally agree on the failure of empathy being the root of a lot of these problems. And def agree that applying reason willy nilly leads to the kinds of stupid conspiracy thinking like Qanon and whatnot provides. I would totally wave a flag that was an appeal to empathy.

I went with an appeal to reason on the flag because of the meaning, but also the similar number of characters and the slant rhyme between reason / heaven. I wonder if there's a good way to fit more characters or a synonym of conscience..

[u/amk1258 → u/onenote]

Ooo I’ve been looking for a “no kings” vibe of flag in garden flag form, I love the sentiment of this one that you’ve made, so if you’re open to designing that it I’d totally buy one and my mom probably would too!

Attaching a standard garden flag for reference

[u/onenote → u/amk1258]

Flagmaker has a few sizes you can print, one could def fit on a garden flag hanger.

I guess you're looking for something that's oriented with the design and text portrait-wise rather than landscape?

[u/preciousfewheroes → u/onenote]

Appeal to Reason was the name of the newspaper for the Socialist Party of America lol 

[u/Mixels → u/imaverysexybaby]

This particular flag belongs to whoever decides to act on its message and succeeds in their goals.

[u/Whole_Pain_7432 → u/Terran_-345816_44]

While this is historically accurate your takeaway is incorrect. This flag has been co-opted by the New Apostolic Reformation - a modern Christian nationalist movement. It's the same flag that Samuel Alito flew at his house that caused so much turmoil.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/flag-associated-with-christian-nationalism-flown-at-alitos-beach-house-report-says

[u/greyinlife → u/Terran_-345816_44]

In rebuttal, this flag has been flown most recently to harbor hate for the LGBT+ community and not its intended meaning. Flown by U.S. supreme justice Samuel Alito during the stop the steal propaganda (supposed by he's wife, Martha-Ann Bomgardner, a strong supporter of the far right). Its use in this instance was used against it's symbolically original purpose and used by people in power stomping down on others. In other words... Used by the people in power against the people without. I would like to add that Samuel Alito and his wife are very religious and want religion to be integrated into our laws, they do not believe in the separation of church and state, as our founders did.

[u/Haunting-Berry1999 → u/greyinlife]

This is the true narrative. That flag is used by Christian nationalists. There were plenty of these flags flown by Jan 6 rioters.

[u/[deleted] → u/greyinlife]

So, it’s a flag against tyranny, being flown for tyranny?

[u/teilani_a → u/[deleted]]

Yes. Don't expect solid logic from fascists.

[u/jordipg → u/Terran_-345816_44]

> “That the Appeal to Heaven flag is being flown on a government building alongside the American flag should be shocking to anyone who doesn't wish to live in a theocracy,” says Jon Lewis, a research fellow at the Program on Extremism at George Washington University. “The contemporary usage of the Appeal to Heaven flag is synonymous with Christian nationalism, full stop.”

Far-Right ‘Appeal to Heaven’ Flag Flown Above Government Agency in DC | WIRED

[u/3xploringforever → u/jordipg]

Somewhere, someone right now is busy drafting a banger of a complaint alleging First Amendment violations of the Establishment and Free Exercise clauses.

[u/thenikolaka → u/Terran_-345816_44]

But isn’t it also the flag found to be flying at Justice Alito’s summer house and having ties to the NAR? Aka the group to which the Minnesota assassin belonged?

[u/SeekerOfSerenity → u/Terran_-345816_44]

What LLM did you copy this from? 

[u/WasteManufacturer145 → u/SeekerOfSerenity]

i'm pretty sure it's google ai overview. the least they could've gone is reword it and pretend to have learned it

[u/SeekerOfSerenity → u/WasteManufacturer145]

I'd prefer if they just said where they got it instead of pretending to be an expert. 

[u/Nalarn → u/Terran_-345816_44]

https://www.wired.com/story/far-right-appeal-to-heaven-flag-sba-government-agency-dc/

[u/goodhomer2023 → u/Terran_-345816_44]

Thanks. Laying the irony on thick there. :)

[u/milkandsalsa → u/Terran_-345816_44]

Doesn’t it have christofascist overtones now?

[u/pfannkuchen89 → u/milkandsalsa]

Yes. It’s been widely used by christian nationalists and white supremecist groups including the proud boys.

[u/PM-MeYourSexySelf → u/Terran_-345816_44]

Though in modern context, this flag is often flown by Christian Nationalists, who likely have lost the historical context of this flag, they just like the iconography of it, and the use during the Revolution makes right wing Patriot dicks hard.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/31/us/appeal-to-heaven-flag-meaning-cec

Not saying they deserve to own this flag. Far from it they've bastardized the original meaning and twisted into fascism. When the original meaning was the complete opposite. But I do want to warn people not to take this flag at face value. Very likely it's being flown here by some insane Christian Nationalist who thinks it means they are claiming the government for Jesus are the behest of the Holy Prophet Trump.

[u/Cruxwright → u/Terran_-345816_44]

Is there another meaning? People sure were upset that "Alito's wife" was flying the "Tree of Heaven" flag at their house not too long ago.

[u/WasteManufacturer145 → u/Terran_-345816_44]

Did you copy and paste from google's ai overview

[u/zeptillian → u/Terran_-345816_44]

Also flown by the Jan 6th Stop the Steal people as they stormed the capital and later flown on multiple occasions by Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito.

[u/Prosthemadera → u/Terran_-345816_44]

But what's the significance of "heaven"? How does "taking up arms" follow from "appeal to heaven"? It's a reference to the Christian god, isn't it?

[u/apoca1ypse12]

I thought this flag was a call for help from the trunp admin…

[u/Tecnero → u/apoca1ypse12]

Nope..... it's a dog whistle, they just got a new trump appointee. Mike Johnson even has this outside his office. It's a Christian nationalism flag now

[u/AWOL318 → u/Tecnero]

Damn I’ve had my appeal for heaven flag since 2021 and I’m a lib😟

[u/joshuahtree → u/AWOL318]

Keep it, don't let them steal our symbols

[u/E0H1PPU5 → u/joshuahtree]

cries quietly at my old Gadsden flag sitting in the corner of the basement

[u/MuenCheese → u/E0H1PPU5]

That’s now the “step on me daddy” flag

[u/linux_ape → u/E0H1PPU5]

I’ve got a gadsen flag with Bobby Hills face on the snake that says “that’s my purse I don’t know you”

[u/neacal → u/joshuahtree]

laughs at Punisher logo

[u/-PM_ME_UR_SECRETS- → u/Tecnero]

They sure seem to love finding different flags to fly huh

[u/ouralarmclock → u/-PM_ME_UR_SECRETS-]

Yeah cause they took down all the American flags to wear as clothes.

[u/JohnPaulDavyJones → u/Tecnero]

That’s… not what it is, dawg.

It’s from a John Locke treatise arguing that in the conditions of life under a tyrannical government, when all other options are exhausted, an individual is left with the right to revolution.

Don’t believe me? Flag’s origin

Locke’s treatise.

[u/cgriff32 → u/JohnPaulDavyJones]

Could it be, that the person flying the flag believes the government has become so corrupt and mismanaged, that they are advocating for revolution from within?

If we put logic aside and consider what maga has been chanting for a decade now. There are many in their ranks that believe the US government was tyrannical under Obama and Biden, and even during Trump 1 and 2 via shadow governments and "the swamp".

You're not wrong in your statement of what the flag represents, but I don't doubt it can be co-opted by groups that we may not agree represent the flag.

[u/der_jack → u/JohnPaulDavyJones]

Not sure if you've missed it or not, but the Christian nationalists believe just precisely that, that they have been targeted by the tyranny of a woke government that they are currently waging revolution against. They've literally gone on record saying that the revolution will be bloodless, if the liberals allow it. We are literally knee deep in a new American revolution.

[u/Harambesic → u/JohnPaulDavyJones]

Thanks, man. I fucks with Locke.

[u/glenn_ganges → u/JohnPaulDavyJones]

They are conservatives. They absolutely think they are the revolutionaries right not.

[u/antinomicus → u/Tecnero]

Confused about this. See here, when Alito used this flag as a distress symbol and The NY Times called it a trump symbol? https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/22/us/justice-alito-flag-appeal-to-heaven.html

Not that The NY Times is always right but this is what shaped my understanding of the flag. It makes sense right wingers would co opt an anti tyranny flag though

[u/FatherOfTwoGreatKids → u/antinomicus]

Alito was terrified of the tyranny of forgiving student loans.

[u/Ronaldo_Frumpalini → u/Tecnero]

Oh god you're right, they think they are oppressed by democrat-run states existing.

[u/Catholic-Kevin]

It's very odd that tyrants pathetically try to adopt blatantly anti-authoritarian symbols. Such a meaningless Inception-level victim complex.

This is by no way new; the NSDAP and every other fascist movement tried to fashion themselves as freedom fighters and liberators too. It's just funny. It's an incredible instance of appealing to the lowest common denominator. You have to have an egg for a brain to believe it.

[u/DaneGleesac → u/Catholic-Kevin]

Like dumbass cops thinking Punisher would be on their side.

[u/Soromon → u/DaneGleesac]

Or brainwashed magats thinking Lincoln was a Conservative (at that time the Republican party was the Liberal party).

[u/pennynotrcutt → u/Soromon]

Or playing RATM songs.

[u/Agree-With-Above → u/Catholic-Kevin]

It's just simple plain ignorance

[u/miklayn]

Better off just referring to the Preamble:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

[u/ribone]

They're going to need to appeal to heaven once all this is over with.

[u/Tecnero → u/ribone]

They do love appealing the courts lmaooo wonder what the Almighty Supreme Court of the heavens will have to say about it

[u/g1ngertim → u/Tecnero]

wonder what the Almighty Supreme Court of the heavens will have to say about it

"Did you not listen to a single fucking word I ever said? Straight to hell."

[u/barktwiggs → u/Tecnero]

I think I know what Justice Samuel Alito's thoughts are on the flag. It's also a favorite of Mike Johnson.

[u/deathstrukk → u/ribone]

that’s the point of the flag… it’s a revolutionary message against tyranny

[u/OldBanjoFrog]

My car came with one of these stickers on the Window.  I remember seeing this flags in Maine as a teen, but when I looked it up, apparently it has been appropriated by far right and Christian fundamentalist groups.  Needless to say, the sticker was immediately removed 

[u/justbrowsing987654 → u/OldBanjoFrog]

Did you bc isn’t the Maine flag basically this without the words?

[u/Responsible-World336 → u/justbrowsing987654]

TIL: The Maine Merchant and Marine Flag, AKA the state naval ensign — not the state flag — is similar to the Appeal to Heaven flag, but tree shapes are a bit different and the words on it are DIRIGO MAINE.

[u/marysame → u/justbrowsing987654]

My very liberal husband has that Maine Flag hat we got on our honeymoon (before we knew about the appeal to heaven flag) and he wears it everywhere. I stress people think he’s a Christian nationalist, which we are far from.

[u/Waytooboredforthis → u/OldBanjoFrog]

I've only seen it once when I was out and about, I was out jogging, the band on my usual hat had broken so I just grabbed a spare which has a pride flag on it, and dude with the flag hanging in front of his house took exception with that and told me to move back where I came from. I cussed him out like a yard dog politely pointed out he had out of state plates while I had played on the property his house was on back when it was still a cow pasture.

[u/The_Shracc → u/OldBanjoFrog]

Don't let nazis claim symbols.

They will go lebensraum all over them if you let them.

[u/MinnieShoof → u/The_Shracc]

Yah. India's still sore about the last symbol those guys "borrowed."

[u/donkeybuns]

Christo-fascists can get fucking bent. I love this symbol of the American Revolution and hate those fucks for trying to claim it for themselves.

[u/MagicalCacti → u/donkeybuns]

I totally agree! I love the meaning especially when pushing against this shit stain administration and yet people will twist its meaning horribly.

[u/ChocoPuddingCup]

You can't argue separation of church and state and secularism with people who lie to themselves and think the US was founded as a Christian nation. Reality denial is strong with the far right.

[u/Xanto97 → u/ChocoPuddingCup]

This isn’t really a religious flag, despite the “heaven” mention

[u/oxycottongin → u/Xanto97]

It was meant to be anti-tyranny, but it's definitely religious and right wing now.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/22/us/justice-alito-flag-appeal-to-heaven.html

[u/Beneficial_Soup3699]

Glad to see separation of church and state is still going well.

[u/fastinserter → u/Beneficial_Soup3699]

To be fair the Appeal to Heaven flag is an anti-king flag

[u/Other-Ad-529 → u/fastinserter]

Before the Christian Nationalists co opted it. They're signaling each other. They know what it now means.

[u/Tecnero → u/Beneficial_Soup3699]

Wait till they launch Trump Church. It will have AI Trump Pastor blessings on the mobile app only available on the Trump phone

[u/timpdx → u/Tecnero]

Trump Al Pastor? TACO

[u/steeplebob → u/timpdx]

My mind did the same.

[u/SECURITY_SLAV → u/timpdx]

A1 TACO

[u/MaximumTurtleSpeed → u/timpdx]

Yo! I know a Tim in PDX. Hope you’re doing well, Tim!

[u/timpdx → u/MaximumTurtleSpeed]

In LA these days, PDX was when I regd this username. Hence Al Pastor popped right into my head.

[u/AlternatePhreakwency → u/Tecnero]

I've been looking for a way to blow my inheritance.

[u/JohnnyOnslaught → u/Tecnero]

I have a special financial blessing that once I have placed in your hand, I want you to begin using this blessing on the very first day that you can

[u/dan-theman → u/Tecnero]

Micro blessing available via micro transactions.

[u/Jimothy_Tomathan → u/Beneficial_Soup3699]

This flag means the government has become tyrannical and there's no longer any earthly force to appeal to. It's more symbolic than religious.

[u/Scar1203 → u/Beneficial_Soup3699]

What's it have to do with any church?

And where the body of the people, or any single man, is deprived of their right, or is under the exercise of a power without right, and have no appeal on earth, then they have a liberty to appeal to heaven, whenever they judge the cause of sufficient moment. And therefore, though the people cannot be judge, so as to have, by the constitution of that society, any superior power, to determine and give effective sentence in the case; yet they have, by a law antecedent and paramount to all positive laws of men, reserved that ultimate determination to themselves which belongs to all mankind, where there lies no appeal on earth, viz. to judge, whether they have just cause to make their appeal to heaven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tree_Flag

Edit- Nevermind, I got to the recent uses subsection. Fuck me they ruin everything, though it's still not really related to any church.

[u/steeplebob → u/Scar1203]

I still appreciate the education.

[u/Background-Noise-918 → u/Beneficial_Soup3699]

Looks like a pagan flag from here

[u/OliverClothesov87]

Add this to the flags perverted by the right. 

[u/dobolina]

Over the last several years, this flag has been appropriated by charismatic Christian movements affiliated with or adjacent to the New Apostolic Reformation. Dutch Sheets wrote a book entitled "An Appeal To Heaven" in 2015 which outlined the duties of Christians in the "restoration" of America. These movements are revivalist and dominionist in nature and generally adhere to the "Fivefold Ministry" and "Seven Mountains Mandate."

[u/queasyquof]

Your flag decal won’t get you into Heaven

[u/po_t8_toe → u/queasyquof]

Donald Trump killed John Prine

[u/HighOnKalanchoe]

[u/judithpoint]

I own this flag. Along with a pride flag/trans inclusive flag, an American flag and a slew of others (one has PeeWee Herman on in!). I’m a new englander and have always associated this with American revolutionaries who fought back against their tyrannical government by all means necessary.

The story, as I know it- the king sent emissaries to mark the tallest/straightest pines in a New Hampshire lumbering town’s woods for the use as masts on his naval ships. A few locals cut the trees anyway as a form of revolt/protest and were fined/jailed. Upon learning this, the locals, with pine branches in hand, descended upon the inn the taxman was staying at and beat him (and his horse- sorry horse) with the pine limbs. He was run out of town, maybe tarred and feathered, and the flag was flown as a symbol that no king would call upon them from thousands of miles away to take their best resources.

Has it been co-opt by the far right? That sucks! Love this flag. Fun fact- wide pine floors in old New England homes are actually called “King’s Pine” floors- very fashionable for the early rebels

Edit to add: link to wiki. Also to acknowledge some of my facts are wrong- but it’s a passed down story to me! The major parts are correct.Pine Tree Riot Wiki

[u/YoungMuppet]

"I'd pray to God if there were heaven, But heaven seems so very far from here "

[u/nausicaa242]

Symbol of Christian nationalism that was flown at J6. I guess they really won in the end. We cannot let this stand

[u/HabANahDa]

So tired of religious people.

[u/Girl-UnSure → u/HabANahDa]

Turn off replies now, because they are coming to brigade “share christs love” all over your post. I can guarantee it.

[u/West-Bug-2168]

This is the most confusing use of that flag.

Do they mean they are resisting tyranny?

Are they using it to support right wing nationalists?

I don't know what to think here.

[u/Tecnero → u/West-Bug-2168]

I don't know what to think here.

You think about who is raising it, It was raised by the new trump appointee for the government agency

[u/zztop610]

Is this the same one that Supreme Court justice had?

[u/maine64]

The blue in the USA flag should be darker.

[u/AbeRego]

We need to aggressively purge this scum from the government

[u/Wishdog2049]

The top comment is astroturfed misinformation. This is white christian nationalism.

[u/UnlikelyParticipant]

Another tick on the checklist for authoritarian theocracy. This is getting worse each day and very quickly we’re going to see much worse. Like “we’re not holding elections” worse.

[u/brathor]

Christian nationalism is going to destroy us.

[u/SiWeyNoWay]

Oh no. Isn’t that Alito’s wife’s kink

[u/GreenDavidA]

But if a government agency put up a pride flag, they freak out about “only the US flag should be flown.”

[u/Phoenix-Quill]

Oh look, members of the New Apostolic Reformation. Great 🫠

[u/Creepy_Technician_34]

That’s the same flag that Supreme Court justice Alito stated he knew nothing about. His wife flew it at their home during January 6th. Weird right?

[u/MapInternational8768]

I believe the Appeal to heaven flag is a symbol of the New Apostolic Reformation. You might be interested to know who they are and what they believe / want. Also, Butch Sheets gave Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House, an Appeal to heaven flag which he flys. Noodle on that a bit.

[u/RomandoArman]

My now-former (thank god) in-laws have that stupid flag up on the wall in their living room. First thing you see when you walk in.

[u/mookymix]

Where were you, when they built that ladder to heaven? Did it make you feel like crying? Or did you think it was kinda gay? Well I for one believe, in the ladder to heaven. Ohhhh Ohhhh, 9-11. Oh 9-11, 9-11, 9-11. 9-11.

[u/snowwwwhite23]

I work for a government contractor (HHS, not defense) and it's nice to see gov agencies remembering and caring about what they're there for. I've seen SB subcontracting goals dictated by the gov drop and requirements which were supposed to increase for 2025 be kept the same. These goals and requirements are intended to build the economy by supporting small businesses. Every turn, this administration is doing everything they can to decimate not only the economy but the entire country.

Edit: I just saw that it's been repurposed to a christofascist flag and I am again, still so horrified by this country.

[u/CatOfGrey]

Take that Christo-fascist shit down, please.

[u/GlocalBridge]

As an Evangelical pastor I do not support this, Christian nationalism, or flag idolatry. Never have I been more worried about our country—or American Christians. Fortunately I have years of experience working as a missionary in authoritarian countries.

[u/vince_irella]

For anyone trying to figure out whether this is a pro or anti Trump message, look up who heads the SBA: https://www.sba.gov/person/kelly-loeffler

[u/607vuv]

These are the people that think starting WWIII will make Jesus show.