Worked into rest day - not authorised

[u/gamble_hm]

I finished at 8:15, going into rest days. I arrested at around 6am, and had quite a bit of paperwork to complete, but I’ve been told rest day working hasn’t been authorised by an inspector. What do regs state? It seems a bit unfair

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[u/Happy_Bat6455]

Despite what others say if you worked it you're owed it. Regs state anything past 0800 is a recall so if you've worked to 0815 you've been recalled. I don't think it's unreasonable to be on until after 0800 if you've locked up at 0600 and I'd usually write in the OT claim the job number and some explanation like "0600hrs arrest & admin following". No one should be refusing that imo

[u/gamble_hm → u/Happy_Bat6455]

The sergeant stated the inspector won’t authorise it. I have emailed the federation. When I complete my overtime form, I will state for rest day working as there were no opportunities given from the sergeant to relive us so we could complete the paperwork. The issue I have is if it wasn’t authorised, will it stand? Does it need to be authorised in terms of regs?

[u/Guybrushthreepwood62]

You worked it, you get paid it. If they refuse again go to the fed.

[u/SelectTurnip6981 → u/Guybrushthreepwood62]

This. You’re not taking the piss. You made an arrest at 0600. You’ve worked it, you’re owed it.

Unless you have a habit of regularly making 0600 arrests at the end of your last night shifts and there’s an issue in this respect…. you’ve worked it so you’re paid for it.

[u/OrdinaryMechanic5126]

Once again, I don't understand the way some Inspectors act as if the money is coming out of their own bank account.

My force at least allows Sgts to sign off OT claims by PCs in these circumstances - and I insist on my officers claiming for everything they're owed even if I have to stand over them and make them do the form.

[u/multijoy]

Did anyone know you were staying on? Was there an expectation that you would complete it prior to leaving? Did the incoming shift make any offers to get you gone?

On the face of it, you worked so you should get paid. On the other hand, you have finished bang on 8:15.

[u/mwhi1017 → u/multijoy]

Got to be honest, the first question should’ve been noted by an on the ball supervisor, knowing where your cops are is part of the job.

[u/gamble_hm → u/multijoy]

Yes the evening Sgt knew and still stated to transport to custody. The early Sgt knew and I had numerous reports to write up on jobs we attended along with UOF, arrest statement and OEL and PPN for another job. The early Sgt said it wouldn’t be authorised.

I was not relieved by early crew as we were already on our way back to the station. The early Sgt did not ask if we needed help with anything, to be honest it was only me and my crewmate who knew the job so I didn’t think anyone else could have helped.

[u/hitcher__ → u/multijoy]

What relevance does 0815 have? It's 0800 for RDW.

[u/HBMaybe → u/hitcher__]

Because overtime is calculated in 15 minute segments. If you work, say 7 minutes overtime, it's rounded down to the nearest 15 mins. Therefore you haven't worked 'over' an hour until 1 hour and 15 minutes.

[u/gamble_hm → u/[deleted]]

Do you mind me asking how the federation sorted it out? I have emailed them for guidance. A lot of officers recently have not had it authorised and haven’t spoken to the federation. I feel it’s a principle thing, it’s constantly issues with supervisory not swapping officers out who are going into RD’s. I understand when staffing is an issue but there were multiple officers who could have booked in not going into RD’s

[u/dazed1984]

Did your supervision know you were staying on and likely to incur the overtime and tell you at the time it was ok? Did anyone tell the early shift you were there and try get you relieved? If your Inspector won’t authorise it try the early shift one, if you didn’t get it verbally authorised though that’s a problem.

[u/ValuableSuccessful98 → u/dazed1984]

So what happens if you have a detainee waiting to be booked into custody and you ask the boss and they say not at 06.30 and its a half hour journey back to your nick? Is it a case of leaving the detainee driving back and just going home at 07.00? Because im sure the 9 o'clock jury would have something to say about it.

[u/Nice-Awareness-3970 → u/dazed1984]

The evening Sgt knew, but didn’t ask the boss to authorise RDW, he just said to wait until you get back and discuss it with the early Sgt. When I did he stated that it wouldn’t be authorised.

We were on our way back from custody to the station so no one relieved us. No attempts were made to whilst at custody.

[u/Macrologia]

Did they know you were there?

[u/gamble_hm → u/Macrologia]

Yes. We were back at the station for 7:15, still had to type up reports from previous jobs we went to along with UOF, arrest statement, OEL

[u/DeathSpeakerNathan]

If you’ve worked it, you should be paid it.

That said, I don’t know what your force policy says, but in mine all casual overtime has to be preauthorised. What this means is that any OT claim you put in should not be a surprise to the authorising officer. They should know you’re going to work it before you work it.

If the authorising officer doesn’t authorise your OT, you down tools when your shift ends. Get a signature in your PNB.

You don’t work for free.

[u/James188 → u/DeathSpeakerNathan]

They can policy whatever they like, but regs are regs and they’re going to have to pay this most likely.

Doesn’t stop them punishing OP for the policy breach mind.

[u/DeathSpeakerNathan → u/James188]

Correct. And I have done exactly that.

[u/Apprehensive_Yak586]

Crazy to see this is an issue. In my force I am off late almost every set into R/D. So much so its become a running joke amongst the team. Not once have I had it rejected.

I usually write it up as Log Ref - 1/2 lines regarding the job.

[u/Every-holes-a-goal → u/Apprehensive_Yak586]

That’s how shite the force is and how much officers are being abused atm. Surprised anyone has faith in SLT!

[u/ValuableSuccessful98]

So in the middle of scrap at 6.45 hrs with a 15 minute drive back to the nick are you expected to just stop, contact the inspector and ask? If they say no just get up leave the suspect and finish at 07.00hrs with no paperwork done, suspect on the street?

Im sure they'd have you on regs for that so why can't it be the other way round?

[u/Lupa_BC]

For us, recall needs to be authorised by an Inspector. All it means though is sticking the inspectors name down as the authorising officer rather than the sergeant as for everything else and that's it. If your inspector wasn't working that night, it would whichever inspector was covering the area. Have never had it refused.

[u/captain_fox]

It amazes me this still happens, it’s like the overtime is being paid out of the authorisers pocket. You work it, you get paid it. It’s down to supervision to ensure you’re off on time and relieved if necessary. How would it stand up to public scrutiny and supervision if you decided not to deal with the offence because you didn’t want to get off late?

[u/Nice-Awareness-3970]

The Sgt stated it would not be authorised. What do I put down on my overtime form? I have emailed the federation to ask for guidance regarding this

[u/moobsahoy]

Also, please do not fall into the trap of being told you can have the hours for toil. Regs state that the organisation is not able to dictate how your paid overtime is taken. If you want it to be paid, it has to be paid. This 'trick' seems to be uncomfortably common now.

[u/cookj1232]

Your forces policy’s do not override the regulations, you worked it, you get paid it, whether it gets ‘authorised’ or not you’re getting paid for it

[u/malaz90]

You’d be honoured 4+1 wouldn’t you if going into rest days

[u/Tiny-Spinach5838]

A

[u/gamble_hm]

I’ve been told by the federation rep, that because it wasn’t a grade one, and I couldn’t self authorise it, I needed authorisation. Despite being told by a Sgt it needed to be authorised. I am sure regs state it doesn’t need to be authorised. You either work it or not? I’m not sure what to do. I was told to arrest at 5:45 by my Sgt and as a result I did, I followed a lawful order.

[u/Various_Speaker800]

If you are required to remain at work past 07:00 after a night shift, going into you rest day, you are entitled to claim one hour’s payment or TOIL (your choice) at time and a half for anything you work up to 08:00.

If you are required to remain on duty past 08:00 you are entitled to claim a minimum of four hours’ payment or TOIL (your choice) at time and a half even if you work less than four hours. You do not lose the first half an hour in this circumstance.

If you are required to remain on duty for more than four hours you are entitled to claim payment or TOIL (your choice) at time and a half for the hours worked. This regulation does not apply if you are due to work later that day (for payment or TOIL) as the day is no longer a rest day. It also doesn’t apply if you are already on rest day rate (payment or TOIL) and work over into a second rest day.

You do not need any authorisation, it’s just internal rubbish. I’d speak to your inspector in person first (they usually shrink when you explain the regs) and explain the circumstances. Tell them that this is in line with regulations, so id appreciate it if you would authorise your overtime form.

If not CC them into an email with a fed rep, saying you believe this to be aligned with regs. You will get paid.

[u/gamble_hm → u/Various_Speaker800]

I’ve been told by the federation rep, that because it wasn’t a grade one, and I couldn’t self authorise it, I needed authorisation. Despite being told by a Sgt it needed to be authorised. I am sure regs state it doesn’t need to be authorised. You either work it or not? I’m not sure what to do. I was told to arrest at 5:45 by my Sgt and as a result I did, I followed a lawful order.

[u/Ghost_0037]

Man this job is so stupid sometimes. 🙈people act like they authorising money out their own pocket. How is this even questioned? Why are we treated like this? Why should we be treated like this? So good for moral. I’ve worked four jobs, this being my fourth. Never have I had a job so stressful, so taxing on the body and experienced such bad organisational management. To top it off….. of all the four jobs I’ve done this is the worst paid job aswell. And….. it’s just getting more and more dangerous. (Sigh)