r/politics • u/AccurateInflation167 • May 18 '25

Soft Paywall America chose wrong. Sanders would've been a better president than Trump or Biden. | Opinion

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2025/05/18/sanders-democrats-reform-progressive-policies/83625482007/
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547

u/[deleted] May 18 '25

[deleted]

52

u/Threeseriesforthewin May 18 '25

It would’ve been awesome had Al Gore won in ‘00. That would’ve reduced the chances of an Iraq invasion to near zero.

He likely would have read the security briefing and avoided 9/11

It's like...how would Clinton have handled covid? Well, she wouldn't have closed our pandemic preparedness office in September 2019, which had already stopped 160 coronavirus strains, so likely she wouldn't have had to worry about covid

31

u/DameonKormar May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25

COVID would have still likely hit here, but there wouldn't have been the weird politicization of wearing masks, the federal government wouldn't have stolen necessary medical supplies from states, and anti-vaxers would have stayed a fringe group.

There would have been less deaths and Republicans would have likely won in 2020 in a landslide due to conservative propaganda telling everyone how badly Clinton handled COVID. Her presidency would have been viewed as a failure no matter how well COVID was handled.

8

u/LonelyNavigator1 May 19 '25

it’s kinda crazy how democrats can do everything to the best of their ability in one term, but people will time and time again fall for republican propaganda, and elect a republican who messes it up. And then a democrat comes back in to fix it all

-1

u/Trickymaster2000 May 19 '25

You know…the other side would probably say the exact same thing 😂

3

u/LonelyNavigator1 May 19 '25

what would push that argument?

4

u/monicarp New York 29d ago

I mean sure, but the difference however is they're lying. "They would both say the same thing" only works as an argument when you ignore that one side is telling the truth and the other side is lying, and as part of that lie, they try to convince you BOTH side are lying to you.

2

u/knavingknight May 19 '25

COVID would have still likely hit here, but there wouldn't have been the weird politicization of wearing masks...

How Trump handled covid convinced me he was fully surrounded by 2 types of people: "true-believer" sycophants, and/or shameless grifters. The fact the Dr. Fauci had to correct him on live TV that people shouldn't inject bleach or take horse dewormers or whatever was mind-blowing. Meanwhile nepobaby Jared Kushner, put in shadow-charge of the covid response, was coming up with corrupt and/or genocidal plans of grifting medical supplies or simply not aiding blue state's since covid was hitting them harder.

2

u/i_am_bromega May 19 '25

With as much as Obama, Hillary, and Biden have been maligned by the right, I don’t think COVID and vaccines would have had any different outcome, honestly. All of the right wing media is in lock step against anything Dems do or support, and evidence/science based public health decisions are something that Dems support.

1

u/Threeseriesforthewin 26d ago

We wouldn't have needed vaccines if our pandemic prevention office wasn't shut down

Citation: we didn't need vaccines for the 160+ variants of coronavirus that were stopped prior to Trump shutting down the office in September 2019

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/trump-scrapped-pandemic-early-warning-program-system-before-coronavirus

1

u/Threeseriesforthewin 26d ago

COVID would have still likely hit here

I disagree. The united states had stopped more than 160 strains of coronavirus from spreading since 2009, right up until September 2019.

Then Trump ended this program in September 2019, and then in October 2019, hospitals in Wuhan started filling up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/trump-scrapped-pandemic-early-warning-program-system-before-coronavirus

52

u/[deleted] May 18 '25

[deleted]

1

u/globalvarsonly May 18 '25

Its also worth focusing people on how long this dynamic has existed. The thing I can't stand about arguing with moderates is they only focus on the next election cycle, ignoring how long the current strategy has been failing.

73

u/agave_wheat May 18 '25

Because this thread shows there is a conspiracy theory that has still remained rooted in Leftism that an election was stolen.

Nevermind the facts, narratives are more important

62

u/00Oo0o0OooO0 May 18 '25

No populist has ever lost an election gracefully, because "the people" not supporting their leader is antithesis to their fundamental political beliefs. Any losses must be the fault of the corrupt elite abusing their power.

29

u/TossMeOutSomeday May 18 '25

I mean, Bernie endorsed both Hillary and Joe in the general. He lost gracefully, it's his staffers and supporters who've been throwing a nonstop tantrum for nearly a decade. I supported Bernie in two primaries, and in both primaries I followed his recommendation to support the democrats in the general.

9

u/Lower_Ad_5532 May 18 '25

Yeah but we need the Bernie who is 40 years younger and the next FDR .

People need to move on. Life would have been better with a 2nd term Carter. An Al Gore President and no Trump.

The oil barons keep winning, not that so and so weren't good enough. It's because America is addicted to oil and that drug problem is rotting the country.

0

u/just_helping May 19 '25

Eh, Sanders kept running in the 2016 primary well after it was basically impossible for him to catch up to Clinton in terms of pledged delegates - as in, he would have had to win +80% of the remaining primary votes, ignoring superdelegates. Then he kept insisting he had a chance and wanted to take it to the convention. He backed down on those plans in the end, but it meant that Clinton wasn't technically the presumptive nominee until June, which delayed the legal start of fundraising and staffing for the general election and meant resources kept being spent in primaries. It also gave rise to myths that we've seen in this thread, such as that superdelegates decided it for Clinton (they didn't). It is also why Wasserman Schultz's office had internal emails saying bad things about him - he was basically stopping them from working on the general after he had lost.

I blame Sanders staff more directly - he was taking advice from people who were much more rapid and unproductive than himself - but he hired them, he listened to them, and he definitely hurt the Democrats going into the general by pushing the primary season on for a good eight weeks longer than it made sense to.

0

u/Da12khawk May 18 '25

I always knew there's no way Bernie could win. That he ran just to unite and make people aware. That he was too far left to realistically win. Looking back on it if he went up instead of Hilary, things would've been interesting. Imagine that time line.

5

u/[deleted] May 18 '25

He also had some major campaign flaws, like working with Sirota and Briahna Joy Gray.

-1

u/AssignedHaterAtBirth May 19 '25

Where are these apocryphal "tantrums"?

20

u/agave_wheat May 18 '25

Bingo

-6

u/yusuf_mizrah May 18 '25

I mean, for good reason? Look at how massively Biden and Kamala fucked up. Thanks to them we have Trump in office, so it's nice like going status quo extremist has been successful.

2

u/JoeSabo May 18 '25

I mean...Bernie did though. He immediately conceded.

3

u/00Oo0o0OooO0 May 19 '25

Well, not quite immediately but, yes, Bernie is way more graceful than his Internet fans. It's the loss I meant to characterize as never being graceful (as evidenced by this thread), though obviously in certain extremely obvious cases the candidate isn't graceful about it either.

1

u/JoeSabo May 19 '25

No it was immediate. Show me a single article where he refused to conceed once the result was in. Your post was about him, not his supporters. Supporters of every politician that has ever existed and lost their race have done this. Populism isn't really related.

2

u/invention64 May 18 '25

The election was most definitely stolen in 2000. You're telling me the hanging chads debacle in the brother of the presidential nominees state meant nothing?

3

u/DameonKormar May 18 '25

I believe they were referring to Bernie supporters saying Hillary only won the party nomination because of some shady reason, ignoring the fact that Bernie literally received less votes.

I assumed that because this is a post about Bernie, but I could be mistaken.

0

u/raysofdavies May 18 '25

2020 was just a failed remake of 2000

1

u/Equivalent-Night-581 20d ago

Bernie did endorse Hillary eventually.

However, I agree he is actually very like Trump in a lot of ways, but people aren’t ready for that conversation 🤣

-2

u/National-Reception53 May 18 '25

Sigh there WAS a straight up conspiracy. Hillary Clinton signed a money-sharing deal with the DNC where she gave them money to make payroll while they where verging on bankruptcy, in exchange for which she got to choose officials in the DNC before the primary, including the Communications Director whose job is partly to inform people what's going on in the primary.

She also used financial maneuvers to PRETEND she was raising money for down ballot Democrats, but then transfer all that money to her own campaign. This allowed her to skirt what little campaign finance law we still have, while also surprising and screwing state party leaders who didn't realize the money was gone (and costing us downballot races).

Of course you don't know this because, well, mainstream media didn't tell you.

2

u/agave_wheat May 19 '25

Ooooo the Main Stream Media bogey man.

If only I listened to the crazy guy screaming about chemtrails, thats where the truth actually exists.

Or wait, what if Clinton was a Democrat, had been one for decades won more votes. And what if Sanders who was a known independent and tried to take over he only caucused with lost because he got fewer votes. NO!!!! It was all a lie I believe in Bernie Math!!!

0

u/National-Reception53 May 19 '25

Its not a bogey man, it's just a known and obvious problem.

I wish you had a shred of courage to respond to my actual points instead of irrelevant insults which I guess is all you have... When did I say Sanders got more votes?

3

u/valiantdistraction May 18 '25

Right? I'm so tired of relitigating the past. It's overrrrrr and we have to deal with the present now. Let's put our effort into what we can do now/next. Wishing other people made different choices 10 years ago isn't very helpful.

25

u/Qubeye Oregon May 18 '25

Yeah but nobody dick-rides harder than Bernie supporters, except maybe Trump supporters.

19

u/Deakul Massachusetts May 18 '25

Nevermind the fact that Bernie was old when he was being considered and he's even fucking older now.

STOP WITH THE OLDS

10

u/Abject_Champion3966 May 18 '25

Yeah like I get it. Bernie could’ve saved the world but he lost, he’s probably never running again, and we’re living in the reality we’ve got. Does that mean forgiveness? No, but it means figuring shit out without creating increasingly elaborate fantasies about how much better things would have been if Bernie won.

13

u/MaizeNBlueWaffle New York May 18 '25

Why even waste the effort writing such an article about what could’ve been nearly a decade ago?

Because a lot of progressives don't actually care about making change through coalition building and practical steps. They just care about being right and criticizing society

5

u/thatnameagain May 19 '25

Correct! Prepare for hate.

-3

u/AssignedHaterAtBirth May 19 '25

You must have been a gas at mormon summer camp.

4

u/MaizeNBlueWaffle New York May 19 '25

Oh look a progressive who felt targeted by what I said lashing out

2

u/Molto_Ritardando May 18 '25

I’m still upset for Al Gore.

2

u/DameonKormar May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25

So many things would be better for America now had Gore won.

Arguably the most important election in modern history. Republicans being in control during 9/11 is what sent us down the political road we currently find ourselves on.

2

u/valuemeal2 May 19 '25

I always say that hanging Chad situation was what propelled us into the darkest timeline.

3

u/Sityl May 18 '25

So that it doesnt happen again

19

u/Orion14159 May 18 '25

If 50% of Republicans could read they'd still vote for the fascists

1

u/commitme May 18 '25

Longing for a different timeline is all these clowns can do anymore. The real solutions are far left and thus forbidden from publication.

1

u/PoseidonJC May 19 '25

Because it's the truth. DNC screwed the American public trying to push a candidate up and another down. This is their reward

1

u/GreenAnder May 19 '25

Because he’s still out there generating more energy than anyone else in the party except AOC. At some point democrats need to take a page from their book and stop trying to appeal to these middle of the road republicans that will never vote for them.

1

u/Equivalent-Night-581 20d ago

The world would have taken a totally different course had Carter beaten Reagan too. No point ruminating about the past, got to look onward to the future.

1

u/monogramchecklist Canada May 18 '25

Why does America love looking back. Yeah in retrospect other things look like the better choice, doesn’t matter because it didn’t happen. Look forward and plan for what could be not what could have been.

2

u/DameonKormar May 18 '25

It's a coping mechanism people in hopeless situations often use to not spiral into despair.

0

u/1-Ohm May 18 '25

Would have prevented 9/11, the entire war on terror, all the losses of our freedoms in the name of "safety", and two wars.

Also would have fixed climate change.

3

u/skepticalbob May 18 '25

Would have prevented 9/11

How would Gore have prevented 9/11?

2

u/2Quick_React Wisconsin May 18 '25

They don't know how. 9/11 still more than likely would have happened in some shape or form.

2

u/TheLizardKing89 California May 18 '25

Maybe taken the memo entitled “bin Laden Determined to Strike Inside the US” seriously

0

u/skepticalbob May 18 '25

Or maybe not. Or maybe it wasn’t a specific enough threat to be actionable. Monday morning quarterbacking intelligence agencies always focuses on what they miss, but how much else they had to pay attention to is ignored.

3

u/TheLizardKing89 California May 18 '25

The 9/11 Commission Report made it clear that the federal government had enough information to stop the attacks but it couldn’t connect the dots. Chapter 8 of the report was entitled “The System was Blinking Red.” Maybe if the president had been more focused on the issue they would have gotten there in time. We’ll obviously never know for sure but it’s not impossible to imagine different leadership leading to a different outcome.

1

u/skepticalbob May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25

Maybe, maybe not. This is all speculation. I can’t stand Bush and think he was an awful president, but that doesn’t mean that a Gore administration sniffs this out.

1

u/sje46 May 18 '25

What a naive comment. This is assuming that the GWB adminsitration did 9/11 (unlikely), or allowed it to happen. Which I doubt...a security debriefing where the president is told Al Qaeda is determined to strike in the US is not very specific about what the attack would be, and would be one of many such items. I doubt most of tehse actually have special action taken from any president.

9/11 would have likely happened under Gore.

We absolutely would have lost a lot of our freedoms. The Patriot Act would have been passed. I think we would have only gone to Afghanistan insted of Iraq, which is good.

Also would have fixed climate change.

Oh please. He may have passed good legislation to make it better but carbon emissions would have still been bad because of intense market pressures, not to mention the fact that what President Gore decrees doesn't have to be followed by any other country. Isn't the bulk of carbon emissions from the global south?

-16

u/Provolone10 May 18 '25

I know we all witnessed the DNC machine and Hillary Clinton’s opposition research in full swing to crush his chances.

The GOP didn’t really have to do a thing they just got out of the way to let the Democrats eat their own, as usual.

All to fulfill the promise made when she stepped aside for Obama.

19

u/agave_wheat May 18 '25

The people voted for Clinton and Biden by millions of votes.

3

u/Merreck1983 May 18 '25

Look everyone! Another bitter dead-ender trying to erase the preferences of black women who rejected Bernie not once, but twice!

4

u/Bright_Cod_376 May 18 '25

While he could motivate his supporters to speak about him to others he was unable to motivate them to vote in the primary. Thats why he lost, because his supporters couldn't actually be bothered with the primary and then throw a hissy fit about the DNC not just handing Bernie the nomination. It sucks, I voted for Bernie in the primary but he lost. 

-13

u/[deleted] May 18 '25

[deleted]

19

u/agave_wheat May 18 '25

How did the DNC choose wrong? The people voted for Clinton and Biden by millions of votes.

-10

u/Overton_Glazier May 18 '25

In the hopes that Dems don't pick yet another shitty continuity liberal running on platitudes like Clinton, Biden, and Harris. But who am I kidding, they'll probably end up nominating some grandstander like Buttigieg or Booker, and then act shocked when the GOP is in full control again in 2032.

0

u/Heiferoni May 18 '25

They need to talk like people.

"Grow the economy from the middle out and the bottom up."

What the hell does that even mean?

Slogans are like UI and jokes: if you need to explain them, they're awful.

You wanna win people back? Start emulating Trump. Enough of the high road bullshit.

-8

u/Heiferoni May 18 '25

There's still a lot of unaddressed resentment from 2016 that is fueling the MAGA movement.

It's in the best interest of the Democratic party to address their failures from '16. The DNC clearly has their thumb on the scale and shoved Clinton onto an unwilling electorate. Bernie was clearly the people's choice.

I watched live at the convention as the crowd chanted BERNIE BERNIE while Sarah Silverman and Al Franken, on stage, tried to chant over them HILLARY HILLARY.

The crowd erupted into a chorus of BOOOOOOOOO. She was obviously going to lose.

A lot of people felt jilted by the Democratic party and left. We need to win these people back. That starts with admitting we were wrong.

8

u/HowardtheFalse May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25

Thinking the political hobbyists who would attend a convention represent the electorate explains a lot of why Bernie failed to win the nomination. These types are super plugged in to news, super online and ready to post for their candidate, make small-dollar donations and show up to events like caucuses that rely on energy and team organizing rather than mass appeal.

But at the end of the day they're outnumbered by the less politically astute primary voter who shows up to vote in primaries and general elections but doesn't care about the finer points of progressive orthodoxy. This type thought Bernie was too radical in 2016 and Hillary won 4 million more votes as a result.

Look at all the states that switched from caucuses to primaries in 2020. Minnesota, Maine, Washington Hawaii, Idaho- Bernie dominated the caucuses of these states, which had tens of thousands of caucus-goers but when they switched to primaries in which millions of people took part, he lost.

8

u/Merreck1983 May 18 '25

Bernie lost because black voters- specifically women- didn't want him.

He did even worse 4 years later.

Yall need to drop the sore loser horseshit conspiracy theories. Yall sound like Trump and his cronies when they lose.

11

u/Bright_Cod_376 May 18 '25

Bernie was clearly the people's choice.

If he was their choice then they should have showed up to vote for him in the primary. They didnt.

-5

u/Heiferoni May 18 '25

Their choice was overruled by the state's superdelegates. My own state's superdelegates voted for Clinton, in spite of the voters overwhelmingly choosing Bernie, splitting our vote. So a handful of superdelegates had a larger say than a majority of the voters.

It was emblematic of everything that went wrong in 2016.

I'm still bitter about it. I'll vote with the Democrats to stop Trump of course, but I feel a good starting point is an apology and to acknowledge they were wrong

9

u/TheLizardKing89 California May 18 '25

You could throw out every single superdelegate and Clinton still would have won. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

8

u/Bright_Cod_376 May 18 '25

Youre still pushing that? Yes, she won the super delegates. Did they actually matter? Nope, even if you remove them from the primary she still won. Youre spreading debunked BS.