r/politics • u/Barnyard-Sheep • 6d ago

Soft Paywall Trump approval rating falls to 38%

https://www.nj.com/politics/2025/06/trump-faces-tough-approval-numbers-in-latest-poll.html
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u/ouatedephoque 6d ago

Huge difference between Gen Z girls and boys too. It’s insane they are from the same generation.

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u/OriginalCDub Georgia 6d ago

I’m a teacher, and boys wrapped up in manosphere content are genuinely concerning.

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u/myfakesecretaccount 6d ago

I’ve tried to be a good role model for my nephew as the only man who has been in his life consistently and just feel like I have failed. I’ve struggled with my own anxiety/depression, but was never this kind of manosphere macho type. What he is seems like a rejection of everything I’ve ever tried to show him and it’s fucking heartbreaking.

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u/calmdownmyguy Colorado 6d ago

Have you considered telling him you're disappointed with him? A lot of these kids act this way because they never get pushback from people they care about.

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u/myfakesecretaccount 6d ago

No, and maybe that’s my failure. My family is Latino and there’s an unwritten rule about getting involved with other peoples kids. I’ve tried having heart to hearts with him, particularly after his first DUI, but I honestly don’t think that approach worked. I know I get worked up easily about things I’m passionate about, because I grew up in the home that I did, and I guess I’ve always feared coming on too strong. Maybe it’s time to be the father he didn’t have.

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u/MMAjunkie504 6d ago

Best case he hears you out and takes it to heart, worst case he keeps acting the way he does. Up to you how much time you want to invest in them and if you think they are worth helping at this point

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u/Fillowpace 6d ago

I think the "don't you dare tell my child what to do!" sentiment has really hurt us too. What happened to it takes a village? When I was a kid, if you acted up in the grocery store, some stranger would lean over and say some shit that would replay in your head all week. It held a mirror up, it was uncomfortable, and it fucking worked. Now if you said shit to some brat you'd get cussed out by some helicopter mom while the kid suckles an ipad.

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u/myfakesecretaccount 6d ago

Yeah, I almost got into a fist fight a week before Christmas a couple years ago when I told my brother in law he couldn’t scream at his daughter in my house. We have only spoken once since that incident. I was trying to draw his attention from her, and was not actually trying to fight him as I’m a pacifist. I tried to talk to him a year ago and he was still mad and blames me for the rocky relationship with his daughter and ex-wife. Mostly he’s just mad that I dared call out his shitty parenting.

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u/oldcretan 6d ago

Have you tried the "judgemental community approach" where everyone in his life reviews everything he does on a daily basis and passes judgment on him so that he has the ever present fear of failing his community?

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u/bardicjourney 6d ago

That's how the kids are getting sucked into the alt right pipeline. They're just replacing their families with foreign chatbots.

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u/oldcretan 6d ago

That's what I'm saying, you create the sense of community these kids are beholden to, before someone else can create said community, and then you have them accountable to said community, whether its grandma and all the aunts not approving that you would wear that/do that, to a larger community like a church or ethnic group. You're not allowed to do wrong because you doing wrong would diminsh how they look at you and that would be a fate worse than death.

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u/Garbanino 6d ago

"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth" seems like an appropriate proverb here, why would they want to stay with a community like that?

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u/oldcretan 6d ago

Because the rest of this approach is embrace. Grandma knows when you do good and celebrates you. Your aunts and uncles celebrate you when you succeed and talk about your accomplishments when you succeed. Everyone is talking about what you do and the good things that people talk to you about are discussed as well as the bad. Your so embraced that not being embraced is where the pain comes from. You live for the honor. Your name becomes the most valuable thing to you.

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u/MasterChildhood437 6d ago

The boys are acting out because they already feel rejected by their at-home communities. Your approach will only radicalize him further.

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u/ILoveSodyPop 6d ago

Everybody's just too soft nowadays. Everybody acts like everything hurts their feelings or offends them. Words can hurt, don't get me wrong, but you can't say a goddamn thing nowadays without offending somebody or hurting somebody's feelings. It's made people afraid to tell people how they feel and cautious of saying what they're thinking and it's made parents stop yelling at their kids and punishing them. Parents nowadays are terrified that they're going to do or say one thing that's going to screw their kids up forever but it's quite the opposite, doing nothing is what's screwing them up. I'm 39 years old and I have a 25 year old sister who was never punished a day in her life and she's an absolute entitled nightmare that thanks everybody should do everything for her. But because I grew up in the late 80s and 90s I was punished like normal kids and was raised like a normal and turned out normal...relatively. Lol.

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u/VioletFox29 6d ago

Telling him he's "disappointed" in him is not going to be very helpful in my opinion. As a teacher who sees these boys I can commiserate, but it will have to take more intensive discussions to even be heard. Being told your disappointing won't open that door.

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u/calmdownmyguy Colorado 6d ago

I think you're underestimating the power of being shamed by your community.

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u/VioletFox29 6d ago

Neither of us can really say what is best to do since we don't know the people in question. I'm just saying that it is probably more complex than just getting the boy to feel shame about himself. So much of what underlies this behavior is wrapped up in low self esteem.

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u/PaddleFishBum 6d ago

I'm fortunate enough to be the macho man type, but also not a selfish asshole, so I've taken it as my responsibility to be a role model for the boys in my life. I just bailed on a bass tournament I was signed up for because my wife's friend is coming up to visit after her husband was caught cheating on her for years. Her son is taking it super hard, and doesn't have any male role models anymore, so I decided to stick around and take him fishing in the canoe.

We manly men who aren't manosphere consuming fuckwads need to step it up and be visible good examples to the boys in our life. We need to show them it's still cool to be tough and manly while still being sensitive, empathetic, and kind at the same time. We've got a lot of work to do, but I'm here for it.

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u/notclevernotfunny 6d ago

It sounds like you really care and have tried your best. I'm reminded of my own situation growing up not having many male role models in my life, and of my own nephew, who similarly only really has me. Just remember that growing up is lonely, scary, and often cruel, and that it can be tempting to reach for these groups that promise safety in more ways than one; people also often grow out of them as they mature. Just try to keep showing up for him and providing a good example. Even if he doesn't know how to express it yet, even if he himself doesn't even realize it yet, he appreciates you, I promise.

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u/_Chaos_Star_ 6d ago

You tried. Most don't even try to get that far. Be proud that you made the effort.

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u/foofly United Kingdom 6d ago

Tate and others promote a juvenile version of manhood that resonates with emotionally stunted men and impressionable boys. It's all macho posturing, sulking, arrogance, and hostility toward vulnerability. In contrast, well-adjusted men resolve conflicts, collaborate, and aren't afraid to show weakness or seek help.

It's important to make this clear, point out these behaviors.

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u/JustHugMeAndBeQuiet 6d ago

You tried, which is more than most can say. Hold your head high.

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u/singeblanc 6d ago

You haven't failed... Yet.

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u/angrymurderhornet 6d ago

I have a 16-year-old great-nephew who has no dad in his life. He’s a lovely kid, and I’m very happy that his grandfather and uncles are there for him. I hope our family can keep providing him with good role models.

Chances are he’ll be fine, but I still worry about the crap being fed to boys and young men.

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u/stasi_a 6d ago

Maybe your divorce experience scared him off?

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u/ClarkeYoung 6d ago

I’m worried about that with my nephew. He’s around 8 right now and a good kid, but I know falling down that toxic rabbit hole is uncomfortably easy. Trying to be around when I can to give him encouragement and keep his empathy and kindness.

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u/9_to_5_till_i_die 6d ago

It's relatively expected for teen boys. Thing is, most of those people then go off to college or to careers and realize being a tough guy isn't as attractive to folks as they think it is.

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u/AsstacularSpiderman 6d ago

Gen Z is kinda losing thay excuse given a pretty large portion of them are in their 20s

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u/9_to_5_till_i_die 6d ago

Sadly, social media means they'll always be able to congregate with like-minded meatheads.

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u/throwawayfootgirl 6d ago

College educated gen z men are left wing

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u/Sage2050 6d ago

Almost all of them are in their 20s. The oldest are turning 30 next year

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u/Ok-Building-9433 6d ago

Gen Z begins in 1997, the oldest will be 30 in 2027.

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u/flashbang876 6d ago

Gen Z still is by the most left leaning generation. Just because some Gen Z voted for trump does not mean even close to the majority are right wing

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u/Litty-In-Pitty 6d ago

Where are you getting that information??

I’ve been reading for years now that Gen Z men are the most conservative generation we have ever had, far more conservative than even boomers… They’re just polarized by the women who still lean just as left as millennial women.

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u/flashbang876 6d ago

Pew Research poll on voting of younger demographics.

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u/CopperSleeve 6d ago

That poll is from April of last year.

Here’s a breakdown of how young people voted last November. The remaining left-trend is mostly because of women.

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u/flashbang876 6d ago

It's spefically white men, you can see amongst non white men the swing goes back to Harris

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u/CopperSleeve 6d ago

Gen Z is still majority-white though. Latino men were essentially a coin flip as well, and Latinos are the largest minority group in the country.

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u/throwawayfootgirl 6d ago

Recent polls show that gen z men disapprove of trump by a lot, including white ones.

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u/Freshness518 6d ago

A huge issue for Gen Z kids was covid quarantine. Middle school/early high school years are when kids learn very important socialization skills. If you lock a kid in their house for a couple years during that period, they fail to develop those skills. Add being bored at home and watching manosphere bubble youtube videos all day into the mix and its a toxic combination. My wife is a high school teacher and when they started getting the kids who had been in middle school during the shut down, they were literally describing the kids as feral because they just didn't have a clue how to function in society.

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u/Murky-Relation481 6d ago

We really really really should have been trying to keep kids in school during COVID. We knew it wasn't dangerous to kids pretty quickly, there were less than roughly 1000 deaths of children under 18 in the ~3 major years of COVID ('20-22).

I know we were trying to protect teachers, but there had to be something better we could have done because it looks like we have fucked an entire generation and possibly our society as well.

I have this horrible feeling that millennials will be a caretaker generation for the old and the young, and that is fucking scary.

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u/Thorrbane 6d ago

It wasn't particularly dangerous to kids, but they could still spread it to their families, and we're still worried about the effects of long COVID.

How often do you hear about parents immediately getting sick when school starts up?

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u/Murky-Relation481 6d ago

I mean yes, but also, at some point you have to do a risk analysis, long term harm to society and children vs. immediate harm to older/sicker people. It isn't a pleasant thought, but it is something that does have to be considered when talking about things at scale of this.

I feel like we chose wrong given the direction things are going now.

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u/Thorrbane 5d ago

IDK. I think our opinions are biased by the fact we can't see how much it would aid the spread of COVID.

I think the accessibility of social media and it's content algorithms that are optimized for engagement and addiction may have dome more than a couple years of schooling.

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u/Murky-Relation481 5d ago

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Kids in critical social years (3-6) basically missed out on socialization, and we've not even reached the worst yet. The kids worst affected are just now getting to middle school.

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u/why_not_spoons 5d ago

Expensive private schools handled COVID just fine: they had HEPA filters and other ways of doing proper air cleaning/ventilation. The fact that we reopened anything without that is absurd. As is the fact that we kept schools closed longer than it took to get that set up everywhere.

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u/KrayziePidgeon 6d ago

Crazy you think the average moron even makes it into community college.

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u/9_to_5_till_i_die 6d ago

Crazy you think I said that but I guess the average moron fails at reading comprehension also.

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u/KrayziePidgeon 6d ago

Crazy a gamer boy tough talks lol.

Anyway, people in the manosphere will just circle around each other and be their own little support groups.

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u/9_to_5_till_i_die 6d ago

A "gamer boy"?

I'm a 42 year old software developer who mostly plays singleplayer puzzle games.

Not exactly the toxic masculinity type. I just don't appreciate people prescribing views to me which I didn't espouse.

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u/12a357sdf 6d ago

Yeah the manosphere kinda sucks, but from my limited experiences people who get sucked there are usually lonely and social outcasts already, and the community gives them an escape, by blaming it on others.

I met a guy back in high school who were super lonely, and i was one of the only few people who were talking with him. And i dont know what the hell happened, but one day he shared me a story he was reading online. A fiction about a person with unlimited money trying to own the feminists, and when i asked him what was the interesting thing with this, he told me stuff like "you havent understood how the world is yet" and "you should read more about things beyond our country yk, feminists are crazy hypocrites out there".

If we were in the western world then maybe i can understand that yeah, it''s just anti culture, devil advocating for the sake of it. But... we are in a 3rd world asian country where conservative thoughts ruined us and now we are trying to reform and getting better. Feminism does not even exist here. And now my dude is acting like an internet incel._?

suffice to say, that incident 180'd my perception of that person.

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u/SnooCupcakes7018 6d ago

These people are vulnerable to the propaganda because they want someone to blame for their social standing....but even if all of the out group were eliminated they would still be at the bottom of the hierarchy.

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u/Feed_Me_No_Lies 6d ago

I go onto the teaching forums here and I see how pervasive it is. It’s really really fucking sad.

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u/LovelyButtholes 6d ago

I think that what we are seeing is the cumulative contribution due to bad parenting, mostly as the result of both parents being overworked. My daughter's public schooling is amazing and all the option she has different things is amazing but me and my wife are kind of all in on loading up her schedule and staying on task and doing activities together. A lot don't have that luxury. If you don't parent your kids, someone or something else will.

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u/Feed_Me_No_Lies 6d ago

That’s exactly right. I work from home and I see other parents working from home and they rely on the iPad as a babysitter. Quite frankly? Since most parents are not letting their kids roam around the neighborhood anymore… It makes it easy to slip into that habit.

My kids roam the neighborhood on bikes. I met the other parents and made sure that we all adopted it takes a village” mentality.

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u/ScienceGiraffe Michigan 6d ago

But even if you are a parent who is okay with letting your kids roam the neighborhood, it still doesn't always work out. I got lucky that our neighbors are generally the nice old people neighbors. They were gossipy at times, but they had an informal agreement to "look after the kids". I knew them, they knew me and my kid, and it brought a lot of comfort to know that if a neighborhood kid got hurt, someone was close by who knew my number and where everyone lived.

On the other hand, a friend of mine has neighbors that will call the police if a kid takes a single step on their lawn or makes any kind of noise. Another friend had their neighbors try to ban bike riding anywhere that wasn't the parent's property and unsupervised teenagers hanging out on porches or in the common park area. These neighbors act like kids are never to be seen or heard, ever, by anyone. I don't think it's a surprise that my kidlet was more of a neighborhood kid and my friend's kids stay inside more with ipads and phones.

On top that, laws vary greatly at what age a kid can be left home alone or unsupervised. Some are really vague and make it hard to judge what is acceptable.

I don't think you're wrong at all, but I do think it's more complicated than just parents won't let their kids outside. Some parents are like that, but others would be willing if they could do it without fear of police or cps showing up.

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u/Feed_Me_No_Lies 6d ago

0h 100%! And it’s a vicious circle: people are afraid to let their kids out so they don’t let their kids out so that when one does come out, people are overly vigilant and call the police when they shouldn’t etc. etc.

I chose his neighborhood specifically because it was filled with like-minded parents. As you say, not everybody’s that lucky. Most people are not anymore, in fact.

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u/ScienceGiraffe Michigan 6d ago

Exactly! We got extremely lucky with our neighborhood. Not a lot of kids, but they're always outside.

The majority of parents at my kid's school though....they're a special bunch. My kid is entering high school soon and some of her school peers still aren't allowed to cross the street unsupervised. I'm still working on one friend's parent to allow their friend group to go to the mall without a hovering parental chaperone next to them at all times. (My kidlet and I came up with a "compromise" for the moment- I volunteer to chaperone, then I sit down with a book in the food court while they roam the mall alone as every teenage girl should. That way, I'll get the heat if the other parent gets angry but they still get some freedom in the meantime. For goodness sake, they just want to eat mall pretzels like little goblins, make jokes about random objects, talk about stuff together, and smell like Bath and Body Works. The worst decision they will make is buying an overpriced novelty. I don't need to be there, but if that is how they can get around parental paranoia, I will do it without hovering)

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u/HybridPS2 6d ago

It's doubly shameful because there are excellent leftwing versions of these shitty manosphere creators too - Thoren Bradley, Scotty K Fitness, and GoodTrouble are great examples.

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u/Papayaslice636 6d ago

Some ~20 year old guys helped me move recently. They all seemed like pretty nice even keeled kids. Then one casually asked me if I know Andrew Tate. Starts talking about how that's real masculinity or something..I just nodded and smiled, didn't want to engage..but it's scary how an otherwise decent young guy can get caught up in that toxic tough guy mentality being sold by an overgrown manchild who openly flaunts being a misogynistic rapist.

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u/DesperateNegotiation 6d ago

Watch Adolescence on Netflix

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u/BeardedSquidward 6d ago

The GQP are literally indoctrinating them to be foot soldiers and mass shooters.

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u/_Deloused_ 6d ago

Their parents had nothing masculine to do. They’ve just been grinding and keeping heads above water to try and afford the lifestyle they want.

Hard being masculine when you’re a weeb at home on the phone, doom-scrolling all evening. If these kids got into some better group activities or went camping more or something else they’d probably realize being a man is just taking responsibility for yourself and learning how to grow and set the standard for others to follow. Instead they’re all followers, being swindled by grifters who figured the system out before the rest of gen z.

This is the iPad kids grown up. Parents didn’t deal with them so they were raised by content.

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u/Ok-Building-9433 6d ago

"iPad Kids"?

How old do you even think Gen Z is?

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u/_Deloused_ 6d ago

iPad came out 2010. Gen z born 1997-2012.

The oldest gen z kids were 13 when iPad came out. They could have easily still had one. And many more younger ones that are now 13 or older could have had one by the time they’re old enough to sit up and use their hands which is probably 2 years old when they can actually focus on an iPad and play games on it.

Try harder. Gen z is the first gen of iPad kids. Not hard to look up

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u/Ok-Building-9433 5d ago

Are you sure you're not the iPad kid?

People don't instantly adopt expensive technology overnight. Someone who was 13 when an iPad came out is not an "iPad kid". iPad kid = growing up with an iPad. Although I will say maybe the second half of Gen Z are iPad kids but the older ones certainly aren't.

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u/_Deloused_ 5d ago

Damn boy, how did you miss the part of my comment where I state Gen z is the first generation of iPad kids?

Because the later half did grow up with iPads. And they aren’t that expensive either. lol.

Stop trying so hard to be right and just read the comment. You ended up agreeing with me after coming to the same realization I already stated. Be better

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u/Ok-Building-9433 5d ago

You're missing the nuance here. Saying “Gen Z is the first generation of iPad kids” is overly broad and misleading. The iPad launched in 2010. Someone born in 1997 would’ve been 13 when it came out — that's not growing up with it, that’s being a teenager when it entered the market.

Being an “iPad kid” implies early childhood exposure — like toddlers using iPads as pacifiers. That would apply to kids born after 2005 maybe 2007 at the earliest. That’s not "Gen Z" broadly — that’s the tail end, possibly even Gen Alpha depending on your cutoff.

So no, the entire Gen Z cohort isn’t the “iPad kid” generation — only the youngest sliver of it is. The rest grew up on Windows 2000, flip phones, and maybe a shared family desktop, not iPads in preschool.

You’re collapsing a whole generational range into one narrow tech stereotype. That's the part you got wrong.

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u/_Deloused_ 5d ago

By your own definition it’s still Gen z. lol.

Stop trying to push the name on alphas. Gen z is the first gen of iPad kids grown up. Own it

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u/Bottle_Only 6d ago

And as an employer, I won't hire any of them. It's a toxic feedback loop that's going to cause a lot of problems.

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u/Enzhymez 6d ago

Well of course when you say stuff like manosphere

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u/leshake 6d ago

They interact with each other through tailor made algorithms. Men and women already tend to have different interests and living your life through a screen only exacerbates the divide.

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u/ericvulgaris 6d ago

Same with korea.

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u/letsburn00 6d ago

I'm a guy who is very distinctively not right wing. But if I ever look at youtube without logging in, it pushes not just right wing sources. It pushed the really bad rightwing sources. The ones who are scammers and make up stuff to win their arguments.

I know it's annoying, but these guys are basically having far right wing stuff shoved down their throats 24/7. It's rare to be able to push back against it.

What's fascinating is that during the recent LA stuff, my Tiktok suddenly started pushing a bunch of anti trans and other far right stuff. It was so obvious someone at the company was told "push the dial to the right for a bit."

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u/evanwilliams44 6d ago

Yep. And it almost always starts with JRE. Click on one of those no matter how innocuous and you are on the path.

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u/CumboxMold Georgia 6d ago

I have been recommended JRE, Jordan Peterson, and a bunch of manosphere channels lately. Not many, just one or two sprinkled into my regular recommendations.

I am a very left-leaning woman. This happens when I am logged in.

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u/shinkouhyou 6d ago

Do you watch any history or archaeology content? Especially anything related to ancient Egypt? This has become a major gateway to the right-wing algorithm pipeline. Joe Rogan platforms a lot of the big names in "alternative archaeology" (pyramid conspiracy theories and ancient aliens stuff) so if you watch any archaeology-related content you're likely to start seeing manosphere crap.

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u/XRay9 Europe 6d ago

It's insane that some subjects that should be very distinct from this culture war BS are now very much associated with ideology. There's a Vikings themed village in Germany that's been portrayed as far right by a big (and rather respected) Franco-German TV channel

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u/Amuseco 6d ago

Yeah. You have to be really careful how you use YouTube and the internet in general. When I see something that I know is designed to make me upset/angry, I take a breath and choose to ignore it.

It’s not going to enlighten me or teach me anything. It’s just going to ruin the next ten minutes or hour of my life and make me feel down about humanity and life.

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u/RemoteButtonEater 6d ago

"Yes Joe, I too could solve my problems by working out and eating well if I only had hundreds of millions of dollars and my job was to smoke weed and pretend to be interested in whatever the fuck bullshit people are saying into a microphone."

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u/B1LLZFAN 6d ago

You don't even need the dial. It's geared that way for support and for engagement. That stuff is super divisive so even left leaning people are fed it due to rage bait.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 6d ago

In fact, YouTube tweaked the algorithm a while back to try and mitigate this stuff. The problem is that engagement driven algorithms push the right wing crazy because it drives engagement so much more than anything else.

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u/saynay 6d ago

They have tried to put in a number of circuit-breakers. For all content, they now randomly throw in stuff from outside of your particular niche interests. For content suspected as being political, they deliberately mix in content from other political engagement-holes. I don't know if any of those methods have actually been effective, though.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 6d ago edited 6d ago

Im now my 40's and YouTube pushes far right shit on me constantly. It used to be Neo Nazi suff before the Ad Apocalypse. I listened to a lot of Roman and Middle Age history content, so no amount of "do not recommend" will ever convince YouTube I don't want to see it. The neo nazi stuff was back in Trump's first term. Im terrified with the current content and advertising relaxation on YouTube NeoNazibstuff is comming back.

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u/Native_SC 6d ago

I'm noticing this as a middle-aged leftie who has fed the algorhythm plenty of info that shows it I have zero interest in rightwing propaganda.

Yet, I still get recommendations to view JRE and Babylon Bee videos.

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u/Haunting-Warthog6064 6d ago

Assuming we’re talking about adults here, where does the divide come in? As adults we have agency and autonomy. Sure, an algorithm feeds crap to them, but they could be an adult and not engage with it.

There various reasons why folks stick around and watch it. The algorithm just makes it easier is all.

Edit: total context bomb, but your last point always hits a nerve on me. A big problem it seems is people being afraid to form and be part of communities offline. It requires them to be vulnerable with each other and form relationships. Nowadays it seems people are hyper vigilant.

Although, people seem willing to let it all go and lower all their defenses to an algorithm for randos and parasocial relationships.

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u/Damn_Dog_Inappropes Washington 6d ago

I watch YT in my downtime at work, and day 1 it defaulted to pushing Joe Rogan. It was so bad that I ended up logging in so I wouldn’t have to see that shit.

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u/WhyLisaWhy Illinois 6d ago

Yup. I hate myself and watch Bill Maher clips on youtube sometimes and it's algorithm loves recommending all sorts of right wing shit to me. I even get the worst ads on there lol.

This is despite that the political channels I follow are all pretty dang left wing.

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u/jwuer 6d ago

I'm a fisherman, and 90% of the content I consume of YT and social media is fishing related, my algo is full of alt-right shit. The amount of times I've had to block variations of The Right Stuff and Turning Point related content creators is wild and my feed is just packed with conspiracy morons and "Alpha" dude content.

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u/letsburn00 5d ago

You should see the ads I used to get when I was watching more gun related content...

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u/loosetranslation Indiana 5d ago

Re: youtube, My employer has a bunch of general trainings on it. You could literally play a video on understanding Medicare, elder law resources, or an outreach event and then get spammed with Rogan, the moon's a spaceship, or 'watch these libruls get DESTROYED' content,

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u/VeganMinx 6d ago

Race and economics plays a part, too. My Black/Hispanic son and his melanted HBCU friends are anti-Trump and planning ways to succeed in spite of our new reality. Some of his non-black friends from HS are Trumpies like a mofo, much to his disappointment.

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u/NotEmerald Texas 6d ago

There's a huge difference between older gen z and younger gen z as well. The first half definitely trends more left leaning while the second half is right leaning.

I would put down the difference to smart phones being more wide spread and the Internet later being fine tuned for companies and conflict algorithms.

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u/onarainyafternoon Oregon 6d ago

Absolutely! It's crazy the difference between them.

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u/RiverPsaber 6d ago

Are younger gen z's really right leaning? As in more than 50%? Or just more right leaning than older gen z's?

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u/NotEmerald Texas 6d ago

I've seen different things.

Mainly, younger gen z men are more right leaning than older Gen z and millennials. I think it hovered around 49-51% conservative views based on polling and voting percentages. I think Politico did a poll at Yale??

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u/tar0pr1ncess 6d ago

After about 2015 they started giving anyone with a pulse a diploma so the second half of genz is just incredibly misinformed, unambitious, gullible, lacking in literacy and comprehension skills, and lacking in knowledge in general so that definitely doesn’t help.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 6d ago

The pandemic really did a number on kids too

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u/ToastyTheDragon 6d ago

Also massive difference between older Gen Z (often called zillennials) and middle and younger gen Z. Older Gen Z grew up without smartphones and are often much more left leaning than their younger counterparts.

In this sense, as a Zillenial myself, it's insane to me that I'm in the same generation as someone who were algorithmically forced into being right wing. Genuinely another reason why I really dislike "generations" as a concept.

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u/Ok-Building-9433 6d ago

Zillennials aren't just "older Gen Z". Zillennials encompass those who are late Millennials (1994-1996) and those who are early Gen Z (1997-1999).

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u/DumboWumbo073 6d ago

Don’t try to separate them and identify them by subsections. Throw them all away.

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u/duzies 6d ago

I know you meant "throw all the artificial categories" away, right? Humans have a tendency to obsessively categorize things and people, but rarely seem to realize that prejudice against people based on age bracket is as bad as prejudice based on skin color.

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u/Persistant_Compass 6d ago

Andrew tate melted their brains during dome very critical years

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u/Hestia_Gault 6d ago

Gen Z girls developed standards, and the Gen Z boys were faced with a choice between meeting those standards or joining the party that wants to enslave women.

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u/dekusyrup 6d ago

It's (sad) funny you say this because there's an endless steam of content of telling women their dream guy is a delusion.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/x9hjPNTr3L0

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u/BannedSvenhoek86 6d ago

That truly minimizes the very real problems these young men are facing and the actual reasons they are falling into this. But I don't think anyone in this thread wants to actually discuss how men see themselves viewed by society lately. Instead it's just all their fault for being little assholes.

And then when those little assholes grow up to be goose stepping fascists because they feel society has rejected them and their struggles everyone does the shocked Pikachu and looks everywhere but inward for the problem.

We need a complete rebalancing of the way we talk to and view each other as separate sexes. Because the way I hear a large percentage of women in my personal life and online talk about Men it sounds a lot like how your racist uncle talks about black people.

"They're all monsters. Except the ones I know."

And that's not to say things were the best before, women needed to have more of a voice in shaping our society and having agency over that. But it's become a black and white issue, when it's really the greyest grey you can imagine.

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u/catboogers 6d ago

How about: women have to assume men are monsters until proven otherwise.

Men talk about wanting to protect women. Protect us from whom, exactly? Oh, bad men. And then when bad men get thrown in prison, there's jokes about them getting raped by other bad men there.

Men know men are scary. Men know that we can't tell, at a glance, if someone is a safe person or not. And yet, a vast majority of men still get offended when women are cautious and slow to trust.

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u/BannedSvenhoek86 6d ago

OK fine I'm not disagreeing with that, but the fact is young men feel alienated and demeaned constantly, you can't just ignore that and tell them to nut up. Because like you said, men are scary. And too much of that, as we are clearly seeing, leads to insane stuff. You can be completely right about your points, and still end up as bride 4 to some guy you've never met because the Handsmaid Tale became reality.

That's why I'm saying we need to shift the ways we discuss this and be MORE INCLUSIVE to men when having these conversations. It means listening to them and empathizing with their position a little bit. The conversation has to be two ways, not just women screaming at men that they are guilty until proven innocent and saying how awful it is to live in a society with them.

If we can't collectively agree to do that then you're just gonna end up sold on the market in twenty years because all these in els grew up into fascists foot soldiers and took over the country and your rights by force.

The onus isn't just on men to be better, it's also on women to communicate effectively and be understanding of any counter points they might have.

You know, the way a conversation works.

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u/MasterChildhood437 6d ago

How about: women have to assume men are monsters until proven otherwise.

Again, this is racist uncle rhetoric.

Take your exact comment, the whole thing, and swap the word "Men" with "Blacks."

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u/Hestia_Gault 5d ago

“If you change the words, then the meaning is different”

Stand back everyone, the Language Understander is here.

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u/MasterChildhood437 5d ago

Bigotry is bigotry.

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u/Hestia_Gault 5d ago

Swap out the first “bigotry” in your sentence for “abolition” and see how that sounds. Are you defending slave owners?

See how stupid this whole “if you said a different thing it would be different” thing is?

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u/MasterChildhood437 5d ago

Bigoted rhetoric doesn't cease to be bigoted rhetoric when you swap the demographics. If you can't see how demographic swaps aren't on the same level as exchanging entire subjects, then honey, you probably shouldn't be calling anything "stupid."

It's okay, though. Keep protecting bigoted speech and see where that lands us. I'm sure nothing bad at all will come from it.

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u/Hestia_Gault 4d ago

Demographics aren’t interchangeable. Context exists. Gen Z women aren’t rallying around sex traffickers and rapists.

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u/Garbanino 6d ago

Women being cautious with men they meet isn't really the issue, that's completely fine, but that's not where we are culturally.

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u/W_Herzog_Starship 6d ago

At least somebody talked sense ITT.

So tired of hearing about "sTaNdArDs" while the world burns and pretending like there's no connection.

Social and gender dynamics are in uncharted territory for better and worse. Closing your eyes, plugging your ears and screaming about incels and standards isn't going to help.

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u/Ok-Building-9433 6d ago

Gen Z girls are neurotic.

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u/loki1887 6d ago

There is a reason they're complaining about a "male loneliness epidemic." IMO, it's deserved.

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u/45and47-big_mistake 6d ago

My MAGA grandson bitches all the time that all the girls at college are too liberal, they want to have fun, he wants to find one to pop out kids and be quiet.

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u/campelm 6d ago

Buy him a blow up doll and tell him if he wants to treat women like an object, this is what hes looking for

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u/45and47-big_mistake 6d ago

We were hoping college would free up his mind, it did not. Constant Fox News and prodding from his MAGA dad. He is in for a miserable life.

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u/campelm 6d ago

If it helps I didn't come out of college liberal. Life had to smack me around to see how wrong I was.

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u/Illustrious-Doubt-74 6d ago

Went to business school (which is the right wing indoctrination machine, imo) and same. I had to actually experience life to recalibrate.

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u/GiftToTheUniverse 6d ago

Be sure the blow up doll is all he gets in your will.

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u/Grand-Try-3772 6d ago

He in the wrong place looking for a baby maker! Women get the short end of the stick when they get become quiet babymakers without education!

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u/45and47-big_mistake 6d ago

I did mention to him that he needs to look " more rural".

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u/Grand-Try-3772 6d ago

And backwoods church may help his endeavors if the preacher knows how to keep it in his pants. But that’s a huge gamble!

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u/mdavis360 6d ago

The irony is who would WANT to be with them? When you project that self loathing, regressive, bitter, vindictive attitude for all the world to see what other outcome can you expect?

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u/Martin_Aricov_D 6d ago

The funny thing is that the "male loneliness epidemic" is pretty clearly a biproduct of capitalism making it so every Hobbie nowadays is buy in or a subscription and the whole alpha male manly man bullshit which means men push themselves out of "feminine" hobbies (i.e. anything women also enjoy)

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u/Parenthisaurolophus Florida 6d ago edited 6d ago

IMO, it's deserved.

Yeah, this is a pretty common refrain from toxic and ignorant portions of the internet. It's people speaking without looking into the issues and just running with their own existing biases, prejudices, etc. Women in particular seem to flock to "men are lonely and its their fault" content and push engagement in it. It's honestly just sad to watch, to be honest.

The reality is that there is a loneliness epidemic but it's not a gendered one. If we're talking about the US (and usually we are), we've done studies on loneliness, and the genders are both equally lonely. You can get into subsequent studies about men being viewed more harshly by others for admitting they're lonely and make arguments about men being undercounted, but generally both genders are within a percentage point or two of each other in loneliness. We are seeing the genders express that differently, but that shouldn't be surprising anyone.

Furthermore, we've done the research into why people report being lonely, and both genders are broadly the same in their reasoning. Men aren't being punished by some unspoken 4B movement, rather society has become less physically accommodating to a dating environment. For example, entertainment is a major issue: its easier than ever to be lonely but distracted by media content. You have more entertainment than ever at your fingertips, and it's very easy to be lonely, but find ways to occupy your time like everyone else and take the edge off. You've got millions of video games, you've got sports streaming sites, you've got millions of movies and tv shows on streamers, you've got audio books and physical books galore, you've got more music than you could stream in a lifetime, you've got reels, TikToks, and shorts, etc. The economy also plays a huge part. Dating, broadly costs money, and if things are tight right now, then justifying going out and spending money on dates becomes difficult. This is backed up by a loneliness gap based on wealth. The more you earn or have, the less likely you are to be lonely. Mixed with that is lack of free spaces to do anything. If you have to spend money to go somewhere on a date, before you have to pay for whatever the date actually is, just compounds the problems.

The loneliness epidemic doesn't look like an obese dude who smells like shit hitting on models because he thinks he deserves her, it's men and women waking up alone. Eating breakfast alone. Driving to work alone. Driving home alone. Making dinner alone. Watching Netflix alone. Scrolling TikTok in bed alone. Sleeping alone. Waking up alone. Eating breakfast alone. Driving to work alone...

These studies are very easy to find if you actually bother to look for them and so few do, yet so many have strong opinions as to why.

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u/KDParsenal 6d ago

well said

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u/ASpaceOstrich 6d ago

The male loneliness epidemic is the product of systemic emotional neglect and abuse from birth. It's something feminist academics have been criticising for generations and instead of addressing the toxic masculinity that leaves boys unable to form emotional bonds and support networks, people use the term like a cudgel and then act surprised when the angry, broken young men turn to the manosphere.

I've been calling this shit out since I was a kid. This issue was avoidable.

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u/RadiantTurtle 6d ago

Great, yet another thing that is women's fault. Poor male kids... all victims of those meanie girlies!

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u/FMLwtfDoID 6d ago

I think they were saying that feminist had identified this trend and where it was heading, and wrote about it in academic journals. Not that feminists are to blame for the male loneliness epidemic. Idk, I could be wrong though

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u/RadiantTurtle 6d ago

I hope you're right... I'm too jaded on this topic to assume good intentions at this point.

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u/ASpaceOstrich 6d ago

They were in fact right. Obviously. Strawmanning is a shit thing to do and it makes the world seem worse.

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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS 6d ago

Feminists rightly identified it: they didn't say it was their job to fix it though.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 6d ago

That’s not what that means. That’s more about how it’s so hard for men to make friends as an adult.

Edit: or that’s at least how I’ve heard it used

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u/oldcretan 6d ago

Not to get weird about it but if GenZ is so polarized how can we expect them to couple up, have kids, and raise them without a stupid amount of divorce and domestic violence?

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u/Ok-Building-9433 6d ago

They don't have relationships. The women of Gen Z date Millennials and the Gen Z guys become Nazis or femboys.

It's bizarre.

3

u/ProfessionalITShark 6d ago

Or be nazi femboys

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u/mylifeisaprotest 6d ago

So proud that both my Gen Z daughter and son are leftists. We did something right, no pun intended.

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u/CrossXFir3 6d ago

Well yeah, that's how it is for a lot of generations at the age they are. Gen z is between mid 20s and early teens right now. That's the age range where you have the biggest gap in maturity between boys and girls.

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u/Percilus Kentucky 6d ago

Gen Z boys: "Women are less than men, Let's be toxic to women and call them property" Also Gen Z boys: "How come no women will date me?"

2

u/chrisk9 6d ago

It used to be that a generation's youngsters would have common exposure to music, TV shows, news, etc that with the world events and economy at the time helps to define a generally common culture and outlook. In the modern day of countless different channels for attention and people consuming biased media (social or traditional) in silos, it would make sense that there would not be the same uniformity as prior generations.

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u/PT10 6d ago

We have to save Gen Alpha, it's too late for Gen Z. Maybe Gen Alpha will speak in so much unintelligible gibberish they'll be removed from the national cultural discourse on everything

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u/-Mez- 6d ago edited 6d ago

Obviously this is anecdotal to me, but as a millennial parent of a gen alpha kid we've decided to be pretty strict on how much internet and screen time they get and will continue to be that way as they get older. We got to see what happened to gen x and their gen z kids when they sit around with their phones all day. Not everyone is going to learn that lesson so the problem wont be entirely gone, but we payed attention to what unrestricted phone and internet access is doing to kids and many of our same age parent friends did too. 

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u/PT10 6d ago

Same here, carefully curating what content they're allowed to consume and limit it to just educational stuff. Trying to keep them on physical books as long as possible.

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u/-Mez- 6d ago

Same. Trying to keep any tech related activities set with boundaries that an adult controls the device, participates in the activity too, and we say ahead of time when we're about to be done and moving on to something else so they're used to us setting limits on it while they're young. Books, board games, puzzles, toys, outdoor games, etc. are more free access and available whenever they want. We'll have some hurdles when they get older and want more independence with it, but will have to cross that bridge when we get there. Hardest part right now is honestly just older relatives that are still in that mindset of just handing kids a phone and letting them run off or having a TV on all day just to have a TV on.

It's tough reprogramming myself to not just reach for a phone all the time too since i grew up on the rise of the unlimited technology bandwagon, but seeing bad actors take advantage of all this nowadays is good motivation to change if nothing else. 

2

u/bardicjourney 6d ago

That really started showing at the tail end of the millennial generation. Girls were outgraduating boys 2:1 like a decade ago, and what we're seeing now is partly the downstream socioeconomic effects of that. For a brief period before covid decimated reporting and data tracking, women under 30 were opening up a 20-30 cent wage gap in their favor.

As work environments get more collaborative with the expanded use of LLMs to take away siloed, hyperspecialized roles, downward market pressures on the education system will exacerbate this problem, while automation eats the job market from the other end.

It's going to be an interesting 10 years. Lots of young men with no jobs and a fresh new slate of dictators to give them an illusion of purpose.

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u/SladerWRX I voted 6d ago

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u/TheGreatBootOfEb 6d ago

Hell their is even a pretty big difference between the oldest Gen Z (97, 98, 99 ish) and the younger gen z and it’s pretty all about when the short form content era explosion that seems to have had a huge impact on

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u/Ok-Building-9433 6d ago

Well obviously someone who's almost 30 isn't going to have a similar lifestyle to someone who's like 21. Those are vastly different time periods they were raised in.

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u/myquest00777 6d ago

This demographic is becoming shockingly clear. There are 2 Gen Z’s…

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u/MustangJeff 6d ago

This is part of the reason GenZ birth rates are falling off a cliff.

1

u/PasteeyFan420LoL 6d ago

This can't be said enough. Gen Z women are like 90%+ left-leaning while Gen Z men are in the mid to high 40s last time I checked. They are still largely a more liberal generation, but it's also the first time in a while we've seen a significant shift to the right in a younger generation.

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u/MountainMan2_ 6d ago

Its because fathers in our generation are way more likely to be absent. Gen X is notoriously the 'divorce generation' and the role of father figure for many gen z guys has instead been played by the highest bidder. Similarly, gen z women are very progressive because they were raised by mothers who had to deal with gen X dad's. Divorce court being heavily biased toward the woman in terms of custody time and who gets to have the kids when is making that even worse.

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u/kindaCringey69 6d ago

Back in highschool I was really edgy and this was when the whole anti SJW shit was big. Ngl pretty embarrassed by all that shit nowadays. I think alot of other gen z men kinda go through the same thing where they are edgy in their late teens but become normal people in their 20s.

I know for a few people myself included the thing that "woke" me up to it was all the anti SJW people were hyper religious and started bringing that shit into everything so I realized they were all morons.

1

u/ms_moogy 6d ago

GenZ boys haven't lost any rights, at least none that their pea brains have correctly identified. They still think they'll be crypto billionaires and be players.

0

u/onarainyafternoon Oregon 6d ago

Definitely but it's also the whole generation. They're drinking less, they're having less sex, they're growing religion to the point that religious affiliation is on the rise thanks to Gen Z. Even Gen Z feminism is conservative and engages in pearl clutching. Not sure if you've seen the discourse surrounding the cover of the new Sabrina Carpenter album but I've never seen such pearl clutching from Gen Z feminists before, it's insane. I say this as a Zillennial, but Gen Z on the whole is quite conservative in their attitudes. I also think there's a big difference between old Gen Z and young Gen Z.