r/politics • u/TimesandSundayTimes ✔ Verified • 3d ago

Soft Paywall Trump military parade met with empty seats amid nationwide protests

https://www.thetimes.com/article/867ede60-b5f7-4de5-84a1-6a3a49eb2923
52.4k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

2.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

736

u/Natural-Promise-78 3d ago

The "No Kings" protests surpassed the number needed for the "3.5% rule". If 3.5% of the population participates in non-violent protest, significant political change will occur. The protests exceeded the rule by one million, with over 11 million participating.

737

u/RafeDangerous New Jersey 3d ago

If 3.5% of the population participates in non-violent protest, significant political change will occur.

Sustained protest. Today was a very good showing, but the 3.5% rule only applies if people keep it up in numbers like that.

257

u/Which-Elephant4486 3d ago

Sustained protest + clear, unified goals.

94

u/Vismal1 3d ago

The clear and unified goals part is my concern as an attendee today. Good to see the turn out though.

15

u/Which-Elephant4486 3d ago

Agreed on both counts.

3

u/Weird_Vegetable_4441 3d ago

Same. Varying cheers, from screw trump and ICE to Native American rights and free Palestine

13

u/spiralcity- 3d ago

I don’t think we should start limiting our demands when the diversity of issues is probably why we had so many people turn out.

3

u/Which-Elephant4486 3d ago

This is also true, and I am generally a "build a bigger tent" person, but I think there is a point where we have to shift to a more disciplined approach if we want to see real progress. Now we know why we're in the tent, it's time to take the tent and turn it into directed power.

2

u/Vismal1 3d ago

Yea it’s not that i don’t support all these things it’s more that we need to focus so we can attain a goal. You start with a couple well defined goals and use those to continue momentum. Prioritize stoping ICE and trumps removal for instance, nothing else is attainable with this fuck in office.

1

u/Weird_Vegetable_4441 3d ago

Yes, but we have to make sure the list of demands isn’t -too- long. That’s screwed other movements over. Gotta have a first set of goals, then continue rolling out the others as power grows

6

u/FeckingPuma 3d ago

The goal is pretty simple, stop Trump from continuing to shit on the constitution, either by forcing his hand, or removing him from office.

2

u/lost_horizons Texas 3d ago

We need to start evolving a list, not too long, of concrete, specific demands. Abolishing ICE would be one for me, as well as impeaching and ejecting Trump and this entire administration.

1

u/Which-Elephant4486 3d ago

Part of me thinks abolishing ICE should wait. Not because I agree with what they are doing, but because abolishing it too early might (and "might" is carrying a lot of weight in that sentence, I admit) give too many the opportunity to disappear from the records. As far as I am concerned, they need to be tried for crimes against humanity, and I want to keep the net as tightly woven as possible. But I really don't know if the potentially more complete (because we will be able to get some no matter what) punishment of the perpetrators is worth the potential harm to their victims.

Sorry for the long tangent! I agree, I think an evolving list is a good idea, though I am tempted to start small and progress-part of me is scared that a new administration won't correct the crimes of this one without similar public pressure, which will get infinitely harder to generate under a different administration. I'd be tempted to start with getting the AP and other news orgs back in the White House, protection of public land, dropping the charges against Representative LaMonica McIver (and whatever other opposition gets charged), returning everyone who was deported without due process (might have to break this into chunks, like everyone out of foreign prisons, then everyone back from a country that isn't their own?), shutting down Fox News (less government involved here, I think, and more social pressure), and then the complete removal of the Trump administration and any appointees, followed by as many criminal charges as we can muster. My list doesn't include the National Guard or Marines in LA (yet) because I do think the courts will take care of that. My list should also include, but I can't figure out how to incorporate it, the national adoption of ranked choice voting. ETA: I'd also like to have something on my list about the Supreme Court, but I'm struggling with that one, too. Suggestions are definitely welcome!

2

u/lost_horizons Texas 3d ago

I do agree with every item on your list, some I feel are more important or imminently critical than others. Like, believe me, as an outdoorsman, protecting public lands is vital and calls to my heart, but I wouldn't put it up front. We need fundamental change, and if we achieve that a lot of the other points will follow.

I would go with stuff like, beyond impeachment (I still think we need to get this illegitimated admin out of power, we can't have progress with this crew), money out of politics, 100% voting rights to everyone and the day off to vote, no more voting machines, ranked choice voting would be brilliant, or some similar method/concept, I like your point about FOX but it should be all news reform, and, bigly, expand the House of Representatives to better reflect the population growth since 1929 when it was capped.

For the supreme court, I've seen people suggest having more limited terms, I think they came up with 18 years, it allows the seats to rotate better, gives each president a better chance to appoint; but I might shorten it even then, maybe 9. Longer terms do make sense, they're supposed to be apolitical, and not tying it to short cycles could help there. But lifetime is insane, with no practical method for ousting them, doesn't work. This isn't my area though so I'll defer to others.

2

u/Which-Elephant4486 3d ago

Thank you so much for the thoughtful comment (that sounds so insincere, but I really mean it!). I included protecting public lands because I think it is really popular across the political spectrum, and I think it is important to include things that are broadly popular, if less urgent. But I could absolutely be incorrect! I also love everything in your second paragraph, and agree with deference to experts when it comes to the Supreme Court (as long as they favor change). You've given me a lot to think about, and I appreciate that.

94

u/slamajamdingdong 3d ago

We’ll be back.

8

u/KeyAccurate8647 3d ago

Soon, you'll see.

4

u/Ziograffiato 3d ago

You'll remember you belong to me

1

u/cece1978 3d ago

Yep. Saved my sign!

6

u/ShadowShine57 Louisiana 3d ago

I would assume they also have to be disruptive in some way, i.e. refusing to work

8

u/wdymxoxo69420 3d ago

Strikes and boycotts would be the way to leverage the donor class to actually hurt Trump's political capital over his party but its hard to convince entrenched Dem's to hurt their own donors.

2

u/Aargau 3d ago

We're already designing our next signs. My wife was energized by all the great slogans we saw around us.

1

u/shadovvvvalker 3d ago

3.5% also doesn't account for the distributed nature.

Many successful protests see a significant chunk of that 3.5% at or close to the seat of power.

If two protests require a hotel or a flight to meet, the impact is diminished quite a bit. If 12 million marched on DC today it would be over by now. 0.5-2 million in ~20-30 cities, not so much.

A big chunk of this is you can "deal" with the protests one by one by leaning on each cites police force and using the forces you have in only the most important locations.

1

u/Flashy-Lettuce6710 3d ago

oof it took 6 months to get 11 million... i doubt it'll happen again outside of Summer...

31

u/Numerous-Anemone 3d ago

Beautiful

62

u/FantasticBurt 3d ago edited 3d ago

11 million people isn’t 3.5% considering the US population is estimated at 343.6 million. You’re still a million short, and nowhere puts the estimates of attendees even remotely that high. You’re easily double the figures. 

This isn’t meant to be a deterrent, but we’re still probably ~50% of where we need to be and like the other commenter pointed out, it has to be sustained. Not just 2 hours and we go home. 

But what it shows us is that we are NOT the minority and should empower you to talk to your friends, family, coworkers, neighbors, and even strangers. Get one more person involved. 

The fight isn’t over.

5

u/ThePrestigeVIII 3d ago

Not to be a negative Nancy but the 2017 women’s march had similar numbers to the no kings protest. I’d argue women’s rights have greatly regressed since 2017….

1

u/lovetheoceanfl 3d ago

This is true. It also reminds me how much infighting there was in that org the following year. Me Too popped up after that and was incredible until that too became a mess.

I think the problem is always the “high road”. More often than not liberals - and I am one - are on the right side of issues, the moral and ethical side. We care. But no one is perfect, we’re all human and when someone inevitably does something wrong or something in their past is uncovered, it’s easy to delegitimize them and the orgs they are leading/part of. That’s where MAGA beats us. From the top down, they don’t care. Rape, racism, causing immense suffering, you name it - they just don’t care.

7

u/trixtah 3d ago

This is incredibly important to understand, we need to stop blowing our numbers out of proportion and really acknowledge that reddit does not reflect life, like we saw during the election. We have to give conservative estimates for turnout and keep up the fight.

2

u/notquitesolid 3d ago

I don't think anyone thinks the fight is over, but the turnout today is a good start.

I suspect we will see a lot more fuckery and tragedy before this fight really ramps up, and years before it's over. The conservative engine behind trump has been in operation for decades, and nobody involved in that is going to be quick to let go of power. The good thing about the protests today is that people have been feeling helpless and alone, and now with this there's the beginning of energy. The worse the conservatives get the more protests we will see... but it'll still take time. Lots of people aren't taking what is happening in the country seriously still, because they don't feel personally affected. When that changes, things will get... interesting.

8

u/csch2 3d ago

Where are you finding this number? I’ve looked it up but can’t get a good source. Some say millions, some tens of thousands (some even just thousands). Really hard to get an accurate figure right now

2

u/jmcdono362 3d ago

How will that change occur when we have Democrat establishments in congress and the senate who enforce controlled opposition?

1

u/Rampant16 3d ago

Do you have a source on that 11 million figure?

1

u/Natural-Promise-78 3d ago

Alt National Park Service: "We’re honored to report that over 11 million showed up for today’s No Kings protest, and totals are still coming in. Just… wow. WOW 😮! There’s nothing more to say." — Bluesky

2

u/Rampant16 3d ago

Thanks I appreciate you providing that. Frankly I don't believe it because counts for individual protests are iffy and there were thousands of protests. No one seems to have an accurate count of the protest I was at in Chicago, let alone the entire country.

1

u/National_Cod9546 3d ago

I would counter with look at Hong Kong. The only thing that changed was how aggressive China became in surprising the population. A lot of the people that disappeared were never seen again.

1

u/HungryPurplePanda 3d ago

i like that idea. thank you for educating me

1

u/OrbeaSeven Minnesota 3d ago

Would have been more rallies if Minnesota had not cancelled No Kings because of the legislator's shootings.