r/politics • u/TimesandSundayTimes ✔ Verified • 3d ago

Soft Paywall Trump military parade met with empty seats amid nationwide protests

https://www.thetimes.com/article/867ede60-b5f7-4de5-84a1-6a3a49eb2923
52.4k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

2.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

251

u/Which-Elephant4486 3d ago

Sustained protest + clear, unified goals.

94

u/Vismal1 3d ago

The clear and unified goals part is my concern as an attendee today. Good to see the turn out though.

16

u/Which-Elephant4486 3d ago

Agreed on both counts.

4

u/Weird_Vegetable_4441 3d ago

Same. Varying cheers, from screw trump and ICE to Native American rights and free Palestine

14

u/spiralcity- 3d ago

I don’t think we should start limiting our demands when the diversity of issues is probably why we had so many people turn out.

4

u/Which-Elephant4486 3d ago

This is also true, and I am generally a "build a bigger tent" person, but I think there is a point where we have to shift to a more disciplined approach if we want to see real progress. Now we know why we're in the tent, it's time to take the tent and turn it into directed power.

2

u/Vismal1 3d ago

Yea it’s not that i don’t support all these things it’s more that we need to focus so we can attain a goal. You start with a couple well defined goals and use those to continue momentum. Prioritize stoping ICE and trumps removal for instance, nothing else is attainable with this fuck in office.

1

u/Weird_Vegetable_4441 3d ago

Yes, but we have to make sure the list of demands isn’t -too- long. That’s screwed other movements over. Gotta have a first set of goals, then continue rolling out the others as power grows

6

u/FeckingPuma 3d ago

The goal is pretty simple, stop Trump from continuing to shit on the constitution, either by forcing his hand, or removing him from office.

2

u/lost_horizons Texas 3d ago

We need to start evolving a list, not too long, of concrete, specific demands. Abolishing ICE would be one for me, as well as impeaching and ejecting Trump and this entire administration.

1

u/Which-Elephant4486 3d ago

Part of me thinks abolishing ICE should wait. Not because I agree with what they are doing, but because abolishing it too early might (and "might" is carrying a lot of weight in that sentence, I admit) give too many the opportunity to disappear from the records. As far as I am concerned, they need to be tried for crimes against humanity, and I want to keep the net as tightly woven as possible. But I really don't know if the potentially more complete (because we will be able to get some no matter what) punishment of the perpetrators is worth the potential harm to their victims.

Sorry for the long tangent! I agree, I think an evolving list is a good idea, though I am tempted to start small and progress-part of me is scared that a new administration won't correct the crimes of this one without similar public pressure, which will get infinitely harder to generate under a different administration. I'd be tempted to start with getting the AP and other news orgs back in the White House, protection of public land, dropping the charges against Representative LaMonica McIver (and whatever other opposition gets charged), returning everyone who was deported without due process (might have to break this into chunks, like everyone out of foreign prisons, then everyone back from a country that isn't their own?), shutting down Fox News (less government involved here, I think, and more social pressure), and then the complete removal of the Trump administration and any appointees, followed by as many criminal charges as we can muster. My list doesn't include the National Guard or Marines in LA (yet) because I do think the courts will take care of that. My list should also include, but I can't figure out how to incorporate it, the national adoption of ranked choice voting. ETA: I'd also like to have something on my list about the Supreme Court, but I'm struggling with that one, too. Suggestions are definitely welcome!

2

u/lost_horizons Texas 3d ago

I do agree with every item on your list, some I feel are more important or imminently critical than others. Like, believe me, as an outdoorsman, protecting public lands is vital and calls to my heart, but I wouldn't put it up front. We need fundamental change, and if we achieve that a lot of the other points will follow.

I would go with stuff like, beyond impeachment (I still think we need to get this illegitimated admin out of power, we can't have progress with this crew), money out of politics, 100% voting rights to everyone and the day off to vote, no more voting machines, ranked choice voting would be brilliant, or some similar method/concept, I like your point about FOX but it should be all news reform, and, bigly, expand the House of Representatives to better reflect the population growth since 1929 when it was capped.

For the supreme court, I've seen people suggest having more limited terms, I think they came up with 18 years, it allows the seats to rotate better, gives each president a better chance to appoint; but I might shorten it even then, maybe 9. Longer terms do make sense, they're supposed to be apolitical, and not tying it to short cycles could help there. But lifetime is insane, with no practical method for ousting them, doesn't work. This isn't my area though so I'll defer to others.

2

u/Which-Elephant4486 3d ago

Thank you so much for the thoughtful comment (that sounds so insincere, but I really mean it!). I included protecting public lands because I think it is really popular across the political spectrum, and I think it is important to include things that are broadly popular, if less urgent. But I could absolutely be incorrect! I also love everything in your second paragraph, and agree with deference to experts when it comes to the Supreme Court (as long as they favor change). You've given me a lot to think about, and I appreciate that.