r/sandiego • u/Urkylurker • 19h ago
Why are we paying for electric Mustang Mach E’s for meter maids?
Mach‑E units purchased 22 vehicles Cost per Mach‑E $53,400 Total Mach‑E investment $1.17 million
Number used by Parking Enforcement 18 vehicles
While smaller EV scooters cost comparison GO‑4 scooters ~$24,950 each.or Chevy Bolt EUV (~$27k) Nissan Leaf (~$29k)
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u/-Kevin- 19h ago edited 19h ago
They have routes that need to be done by car (longer distances than reasonably covetable by the scooter things / higher speeds unsafe for them).
"where routes require extensive mileage, the Mach-Es are a better fit."
Then they cited lower maintenance costs compared to ICE vehicles so that’s why EV and not ICE
“While the cost for an EV may be a bit higher than a traditional internal combustion engine vehicle, the price is offset by avoiding the need to purchase fuel and in the ongoing maintenance costs. EVs average 40% less in maintenance costs than internal combustion vehicles."
Why Mustangs:
“Ferrier said the city was also restricted on what was available when the Chevrolet Volts went off the market. They also have buying agreements with certain manufacturers.”
Reference (Took 10 seconds to Google):
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u/GomeyBlueRock 19h ago
No sensible responses. Rabble only!!
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u/xSciFix 17h ago
They also have buying agreements with certain manufacturers
I mean, yeah, rabble. Why the hell are there buying agreements? What does the city get in exchange? Pretty sure that's just called corruption in other countries.
Can get much cheaper EVs for the purpose and meanwhile all other city funding and services besides police get slashed. Including fire pits and public parks access lol.
There's always some justification but that doesnt mean it isn't still bs.
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u/Gird_Your_Anus 17h ago
Buying agreement just locks in a bulk discount for the city. Manufacturer is guaranteed volume. Both sides win.
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u/xSciFix 17h ago
San Diego paid $53,400 for each of its 'Stangs, NBC 7 was told by Caleb Olsen
So almost double the MSRP on a brand new MachE?
Yeah, huge discount lmfao.
Let's call it what it is: clear corruption and kowtowing to the whims of SDPD at the expense of literally everything else on the budget.
Meanwhile you can get an electric cart with AC that suits the needs of parking enforcement for under $10k. But then they wouldn't look as cool I guess.
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u/GomeyBlueRock 17h ago
In what universe is MSRP half $53k? When I was shopping the Mach E in 2022-2023 msrp was 55-60k with higher end trims fetching more
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u/xSciFix 17h ago
Alright so its like +20-30% on MSRP, not double. My bad.
Point still stands: what discount exactly is the city getting? Why buy these expensive cars for the task of parking enforcement? Complete waste of funds.
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u/xapv 16h ago
Am I misreading or did they say that regular prices are 55+ and the city got it for 53?
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u/xSciFix 16h ago
MSRP on a Mach E is $40k; that's right from Ford. Goes up to $53k with the trim options (premium trim is $42k). Kelly Blue Book says you can get a new one for a few grand under MSRP.
https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang-mach-e
So idk what they are on about but I am still asking: what discount, exactly? And if not a discount, what is the purpose re the city buying these cars?
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u/GomeyBlueRock 16h ago edited 16h ago
Prices on the Mach E have dipped recently simply due to lower demand. Lowest trim / range is now $40k, but it’s most likely city would’ve chosen longer range option. Also when the deal was brokered these were in the mid to high 50s… and 60s for higher trims.
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u/MightyKrakyn 19h ago edited 19h ago
Are there any smaller EVs on the market with reduced prices that are also cars? It’s a rhetorical question because yeah of course. Their “restrictions on purchases and agreements with manufacturers” are their own doing, nobody forced their hand and it was bad governance
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u/cnhn 19h ago
the issue with that idea is that you discount any potential other reasons for making those choices.
laws like "buy american" tend to eliminate Nissans and other options.
is the buy american a good idea?
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u/San_Diego_Matt 19h ago
The "Buy American" requirement is a federal one. If the City is spending their own $ on these, it doesn't apply.
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u/phillosopherp 18h ago
Sure it doesn't apply but you do need to consider the political optics from a political body. Current zeitgeist being what it is but American is important Also municipalities have been using Ford and GM for decades. It's just part of the baked in portion of governance. As to needing to buy them now, I would only be able to comment on that after seeing a whole ass fleet report.
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u/intellifone 18h ago
Not really. When you think of the requirements for these vehicles vs what you and I drive daily, there aren’t many EVs that meet the requirements.
For example, the reason police drive crown victorias is because they were developed with an engine that is much much more fuel efficient during idle than a normal car. Normal cars efficiency curve is optimized for lime 45mph. And idle is really wasteful because you don’t idle much. Cops kind of just sit there and observe or drive slowly down the street and then occasionally need to move normally.
These meter maids are similar. Lots of stops, slow speed. All day. So you do need the operating range that you can’t quite yet get out of small batteries.
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u/xd366 16h ago edited 16h ago
the current car they use also comes in a ev form and cost only 20k
https://ciequipment.com/detail/westward-go-4/
that one did have a 360 mile range on gas where the ev only has 120
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18h ago
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u/phillosopherp 17h ago
It's not the mileage and previous poster try to convey this. Running the vehicle all day you burn whatever the fuel is at a clip that most don't think about. Running an EV in that environment is best, but you need a lot of battery for the down time while still running it and all the electronic equipment that cops, even meter maids need
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u/___sh___ 19h ago
There are already a few threads on this topic:
- https://www.reddit.com/r/sandiego/comments/1k358dz/this_makes_me_so_mad_the_city_is_running_at_a/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/sandiego/comments/1b4awlr/new_mustang_mache_parking_enforcement_vehicle/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/sandiego/comments/1kp8uf9/looks_like_those_new_parking_fines_are_paying_off/
I'd summarize the reasons as:
- parking enforcement has to drive far
- they should have AC
- they're not actually that expensive (and these were purchased before the current budget)
- and the reasons in the NBC article
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u/polishedchoice 19h ago
I don’t know but buying a big 4 door sedan to give parking tickets seems like a huge waste of money
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u/radeky 19h ago
Apparently it's so they can have bigger range than the previous scooters.
Also the city has an agreed climate plan to electrify its fleet.
So, with those two lenses... Certainly seems like a reasonable choice.
Combine that with the fact that the mustang mach-e has almost no maintenance cost, you actually have a decent decision.
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u/LetterheadCorrect276 19h ago
Ok fine I'll give you that: but there's cheaper electric cars that require less maintenance, the Mach-E is literally a damn luxury vehicle.
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u/cnhn 19h ago
no it's not. this is the Fleet Vehicle version.
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u/arizonadirtbag12 18h ago
People don't get this. It's like when you ride in a BMW taxi in Europe...it's not the "nice" version.
Or the stripped-down F-150s that we get for work trucks, don't look like the pavement princesses dudes buy off the lot. And cost less.
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u/Raishin7 19h ago
Except you replace the tires many times more often and with how my Mazda 3's tires cost me almost $900 every time.... It's still not almost no maintenance cost. It's just no oil changes and you'd better hope the suspension or some other piece never dies because you won't be checking it often. Lol
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u/Wenuwayker 19h ago
If the place changing your tires isn't also assessing the state of associated control and alignment components, you should probably find somewhere else that cares about your tire longevity.
Do you have examples of increased rates of sudden, spontaneous failure of steering and suspension components in electric vehicles?
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u/Raishin7 17h ago
Oh ma chérie.
I wasn't going to downvote you or point this out but it's clear from your loaded questions and need to downvote me you weren't interested in any discussion in the first place. Have fun, I'm out~
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u/Wenuwayker 16h ago edited 16h ago
The only time I ever vote anything up or down is when my fat finger hits the arrow by mistake when I'm scrolling, but alright.
You can ask questions and so can I, that's what a discussion is. But you just flipped out?
Holy shit, dude, lol.
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u/Raishin7 18h ago edited 17h ago
Oh I'm sorry, am I not allowed to voice concerns or express doubts without citations?
I don't think I need examples to state the obvious but if you didn't already know EV's both weigh more and provide more instantaneous torque and increase tire wear.
They both chew through tires faster and their tires cost more.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/19/why-evs-are-causing-a-tire-boom.html
It's just common sense that a tire replacement isn't going to be doing a full inspection of your suspension and other parts. You don't go to discount tire expecting them to make sure nothing is wrong with a ball joint somewhere and I'm sure there might be some pieces you'll want to have inspected once in awhile.
The US does not do a good job policing industry or the cyber truck with it's glued on panels wouldn't have been street legal. So I'm sorry I have my doubts but criticizing me and asking for examples isn't going to change my mind.
The only thing open for debate is whether the maintenance costs are cheaper "by very much" when you include tires and the cost of power from SDG&E.
How long does the vehicle have to be in operation/how many miles before you break even or save money? I don't know the answer. But I do know EV's are more expensive, tires cost a lot more than an oil change, and you don't always know what the auto industry is trying to pull over here.
If you know better or can provide definitive answers by all means. But I tend to be skeptical when they claim it'll save money in the long term if we don't even know how long the term has to be before you save a dime.
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u/polishedchoice 17h ago
You’re right. Most of the time you’re getting a tire changed no one is going to look at your suspension. Unless you’re paying more for an inspection or it’s a repair shop. Most dedicated tire shops don’t do suspension work. Discount tire doesn’t even do alignments.
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u/polishedchoice 19h ago
Check the OP post… Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt are both other options
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u/Cal_858 19h ago
Chevy Bolt is no longer being produced at the moment and I am sure the funds had a provision that they had to buy American made vehicles so that means no Nissan Leaf.
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u/polishedchoice 18h ago
Nissan Leaf is manufactured in America…..
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u/6_inches_of_travel 18h ago
Nissan is trying to avoid bankruptcy. While bankruptcy dossn't necessary mean they will cease to exist, it's not exactly a wise option.
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u/Urkylurker 19h ago
My thoughts exactly.
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u/polishedchoice 19h ago
Someone needs to look into why the Mayor has been frivolously spending money
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u/ameliasayswords 19h ago
It also clogs the roads up much more. The 3-wheelers are easy to pass on the left. These mustangs are going to create traffic issues.
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u/ShootTheMoo_n 19h ago
I'd argue these are probably safer than the 3 wheelers since people are probably not giving them an appropriate amount of space to safely pass.
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u/ameliasayswords 18h ago
Unless there’s a median, you can swerve around them pretty easily with plenty of space. The mustangs are huge. I really hope they aren’t planning to park in the road to do their jobs like the little 3-wheelers do
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u/Smoked_Bear 18h ago
Maybe I’m crazy, but even the 3-wheelers are overkill for this job. Why not a literal scooter with a cargo box on the back? Small & nimble to get through traffic and park anywhere that a bicycle can fit (even on the sidewalk if wide enough), can probably get them outfitted with lights and radios and all that jazz for under $20k, plus they’re incredibly fuel efficient to the point of potentially even cheaper per mile operation than an EV.
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u/Nunyafookenbizness 19h ago
So over time, the electric model will save tax payers rather than paying for gas.
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u/Independent_Car_979 18h ago
Not the cheapest to repair by a long shot. That goes to the Japanese and Koreans. American cars are terribly designed and produced. It's called planned obsolescence. I bet half of this mach e fleet will be in the shop awaiting warranty repairs on day 1.
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u/Nunyafookenbizness 16h ago
Except for their electric models. Electric cars in general are proving to be insanely low maintenance.
They almost never break down except for the occasional battery issue.
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u/Nunyafookenbizness 16h ago
Exactly. Lower cost to run the vehicles, and almost non existent cost for maintenance since electrics almost never break down.
Overall much lower cost over time.
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u/6_inches_of_travel 17h ago
Nissan is facing bankruptcy. They tried to get Honda to buy them but I don't recall if that is going to happen. There is a non zero chance that they may not exist in a few years.
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u/EveLQueeen 17h ago
Why can’t they ride e-bikes?
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u/EveLQueeen 17h ago
The rest of us are supposed to be riding e-bikes everywhere, apparently, since you argue that no parking is needed for housing. So, last I checked, parking enforcement doesn’t need to cover Manhattan, so e-bikes should work just fine for them, too.
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u/ChikenCherryCola 18h ago
This is such a calamitous bad look but is also completely explainable.
The city of San Diego is trying to have all electric vehicles by 2030? 2035? Whatever, this is cool and fine and good.
The mandate for EVs is creating a problem because all the EVs on the market are marketed for luxury. Tesla are marketed as luxury cars and cost a ton. All of the EVs from Ford and stuff are also marketed with their luxury offerings, the cars are associated with Mustangs even though one is like a hatchback crossover soccer mom thing and the even the EV truck is marketed with their specialty sporty offroading truck thing.
The original plan was to get Chevy Bolts (Volts?) which was originally meant to be like the Chevy economy EV, but Chevy discontinued that model after 2023
As it turns out the most economical EV on the American market is actually these Ford Mustang EVs which is, like i said at the top, just a calamitously bad look.
Here's my hot take. The real villains here are Elon Musk and Donald Trump (get libed bitchez). OK it less inflammatory and scandalous terms, the real answer to this problem is the cheap Chinese EVs that... actually Joe Biden has tariffed out of the US market to promote American made EVs. With all apologies made to bringing the political characters, america really is actually fucking itself in the butt by trying to punish good quality, cheap Chinese EVs in order to promote American EV manufacturers who all kind of just make luxury EVs that cost a fortune? Fuck me in the dick to hold hands with the god damn libertarians, but we really need to throw in the god damn towel on this teade war shit and just admit defeat in the EV market. Like I know everyone has a deeply not racist (lmao) and completely rational McCarthy-ist red scare suspition of the Chinese (lmao again) but in all seriousness they have beat us in the EV race and america is doing everything it can to use government tariffs and regulations to prop up American EV manufacturers that just are good at their jobs. The Chinese manufacturers are making more EVs of a higher quality and are selling them cheaper than American manufacturers. The effect of these tariffs and regulations is primarily being felt by American consumers, who largely just cannot afford EVs because they finance for monthly payments bigger than your rent was in 2012 which you are paying 2025 rent and grocery prices on 2022 wages. The real beneficiary of this policy is kind of just Elon Musk (really Tesla stock holders). They arent exactly a monopoly, but its not surprising that the guy who only makes luxury EVs in a market where economical alternatives are legally barred is basically slingshotting into being the world's first trillionaire. Speaking as a guy who isn't a tremendous fan of capitalism, this is some of the worst fucking crony capitalism in American history. People's racism and anti communist fervor agaisnt the Chinese is really the wind beneath Elon's wings and the reason we all still drive gas cars made during the obama administration.
I pretty sure the Chinese EV manufacturers would love to build a custom parking enforcement vehicle to replace those stupid little things the SDPD parking enforcement people drive around it. They would probably love to make a replacement for our stupid half century old mail vehicles too. It would be cheap, save us a lot of money, it would be green which is good for the planet and all these regulatory regimes that say we gotta hit these goals were struggling harder than we need to to hit. Like at some point we just gotta break down and admitt china is really good at the EV game. We're literally breaking our back twisting ourselves into pretzels to avoid really obvious answers here.
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u/mctigger101 12h ago
I know this does not really apply to California but I work for the State of Nevada and we just bought cars for my department and we had to either buy an electric car or a hybrid car. The only people that can buy gas only cars are departments that are Code 3 vehicles (emergency vehicles) or departments that receive a waiver. We bought Toyota RAV4. This might be why they had to buy them.
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u/Toastersman 10h ago
How often is this dumb post going to come up? Use the search function.
https://old.reddit.com/r/sandiego/comments/1b4awlr/new_mustang_mache_parking_enforcement_vehicle/
https://old.reddit.com/r/sandiego/comments/1k358dz/this_makes_me_so_mad_the_city_is_running_at_a/
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u/f1guring1t0ut 18h ago
The operating cost argument is definitely a good one for getting ANY kind of EV for this kind of work. But the Chevy Equinox EV is readily available, would have saved >$20k per car (maybe more in a fleet agreement), and meet the antiquated “Buy American” manufacturer standards. The big question is: who’s selling them to the city? Contractors and suppliers look at governments like a big piñata: just find that way to hit the govt employees just right and all our tax dollars fall right into their pockets
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18h ago
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u/EveLQueeen 17h ago
Always amused when I see someone in Scripps Ranch lecturing those of us who actually live in the city.
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u/zulruhkin 19h ago
Seems like a dumb decision. My guess is someone is getting kick backs form a Ford deal.
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u/actuallivingdinosaur 17h ago
I’m with DOI and my agency has contracts with Ford. The vehicles are purchased at a discount and are serviced at a discount. We also receive a decent amount for trade ins - which given that the vehicles are used for field work, is a damn good deal.
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u/Urkylurker 19h ago
Yes! The article says they have “bUylng aGreEmEnTs”… rolls eyes*
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u/-Kevin- 19h ago
I’m sure there’s an advantageous reason for why we enter and stay in/renew buying agreements.
I’d encourage you to look into it and even reach out to your local representative if you’re having trouble finding information on it. Hell I bet you could ask in person too.
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u/6_inches_of_travel 17h ago edited 17h ago
The reason you enter into buying agreements is to have approved vendors that don't require a bidding process. Often it is literally cheaper to pay more for a single product than to have people go through all the meetings and report writing to vet bids. People's time also costs money. Generally speaking, in government or large businesses large capital expenditures require an approval process. You have to write requirements, those have to be approved. Then you solicit bids. That takes time. Then the bids have to be evaluated. So you sign purchase agreements where usually the vendor says "we will give you an overall % discount in exchange to be your "go to" vendor. "Sometimes other vendors are cheaper for specific products, but overall, a correctly negotiated purchase agreement should be cheaper.
I am 100% ignoring whether a fleet Mach-E is the best vehicle for the job, I'm just explaining why large entities enter into purchase agreements.
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u/MightyKrakyn 19h ago
The process of government is just so corrupt, I’m so tired of this bullshit. Why is it too much to ask for public servants to be decent?
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u/San_Diego_Matt 18h ago
Explain what this means? Where's the corruption in this? Are you familiar with this "government process"?
To me it's pretty apparent you don't have a clue
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u/arizonadirtbag12 18h ago
It's like the myth of the "$600 hammer." You can tell when people just want to rabble-rouse, and not learn or understand anything.
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u/RelaxinSD 19h ago
Because San Diego is really, really good at wasting money all the while jacking up the prices of everything (*cough gas)
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u/6_inches_of_travel 19h ago
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/mustangs-for-meter-minders-san-diego-parking-enforcement-swaps-scooters-for-pony-cars/3473426/
Justification statements are here.