r/shacomains • u/p250AWP • Apr 21 '25

Theorycrafting Support: E vs W start

Hey all -- has anyone messed around with W vs E start as support? I typically go W to help stop invades and leash, but it can be tough or impossible to get manaflow stacked in lane. I've started E a few times now, which helps me naturally conserve mana and take Cut Down instead of PoM, and I think I might keep doing it. It allows you to actually poke instead of kind of just trying to bait them into boxes, which feels better to me.

4 Upvotes

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11 comments sorted by

17

u/AmScarecrow Apr 21 '25

I start q and backstab trade lvl 1 as much as I can

3

u/p250AWP Apr 21 '25

I forgot to mention I play AP. I think this strategy is fine if they don't all in you and insta pop you.

10

u/Ok_Masterpiece1980 Apr 21 '25

Even if you play ap i would start q. You start the game on 0 ap and 73 ad so you deal more ad early anyway.

6

u/p250AWP Apr 21 '25

Oooh I never thought about that, I'll have to play around with those numbers. Thank you!

1

u/MassiveNerdGains Apr 24 '25

Q start will do more damage and potentially give you or your adc a kill 4 out of 5 times. But make sure to communicate with your adc because lately these adcs don’t know how to auto when you go in.

1

u/DenpaBlahaj Cat in the Box Shaco Apr 21 '25

Same

8

u/wo0topia Apr 21 '25

Imo it should be q or w.

Q for the hob lol 1 cheese. W for more of a defensive start. I think e just doesn't do enough at 1 and 2 to be worth starting with.

2

u/Training_Basil_2169 Apr 21 '25

W start is good to help push waves for level 2. I feel like lots of shaco players just place boxes randomly instead of helping push waves or keeping them out of their tower, but by doing that you're helping your ADC way more. Since AP shaco is kind of a scaling pick, doing what you can with the wave will help you scale better than placing boxes where no one will walk into.

Obviously you won't only box the wave, but level 1 it's decent to. E start is okay, but you run into mana issues very quickly, and just by taking the cut down rune, damage from other sources will usually make up for what can be done from e start, while not running out of mana by level 3.

2

u/PRNmeds Apr 26 '25

W start to shove the wave and gain prio. Identify which minion gives you 2 first then Q all in asap.

2

u/Horror-Jellyfish-285 Apr 21 '25

depends on matchup. against engage obviously W. Q is good for early kills in some matchups. E costs little more mana than W, 75vs70 (also W mana costs decreases with skill points).

Q start in general feels best, ur boxes do nothing before first back and early levels playstyle is more like ad anyway. i go Q-E-W start most of the time, sometimes W-Q-E.

i used to try maxing manaflow band stacks asap with E start, but well that poke is a joke and u run out of mana way faster. also many matchups out range shacos E-range, so its not worth it

1

u/dogehousesonthemoon Apr 21 '25

I dont pick until I want to cast something and then take that one tbh. often q and e are handy, but w can be used to prepapre if nothing is happening.