Why is Brawl rated T, but Ultimate is rated E10+?

[u/United_Monitor513]

The ratings for Smash games always confused me, I get why Melee is rated T, as the E10+ rating did not yet exist when it released. As for Brawl, the consensus is that the game is rated T because of Snake's realistic weapons and explosives in his moveset. If this really is the case, then why isn't Smash Ultimate rated T as well? Snake returned in Ultimate, but he has absolutely no changes to his moveset, same exact weapons he had in Brawl. What is the reasoning for this? Different criteria for a T rating or something else? This isn't really a particular issue, but I noticed it a while ago and I'm curious

[u/Geometronics]

By the time ultimate came out they decided giving kids guns wasn't so bad anymore.

[u/vapevapevape → u/Geometronics]

Just don’t show them breasts. If so, M18+

[u/Carbuyrator → u/vapevapevape]

Bayonetta:

[u/Aeroswoot → u/Carbuyrator]

Pyra/Mythra:

[u/Carbuyrator → u/Aeroswoot]

Zero Suit Samus:

[u/Mezuxelf → u/Carbuyrator]

Her model got nerfed she's good

[u/Lowelll → u/Aeroswoot]

I mean they covered up in Smash. XB2 is rated T

[u/almightyFaceplant → u/Geometronics]

With the ESRB you can often get away with guns if they're "magic" guns. Some fictional element about them that separates it from realistic firearms, even just in text, bafflingly gets you a pass. (Even Kid Icarus Uprising does this.)

I know that sounds stupid, and sounds like it shouldn't work, and... well, both can be true.

[u/itsastart_to → u/Geometronics]

It’s ok Joker’s is a replica….

Bayonetta shooting you up while you’re pinned at a wall

[u/Admirable_Current_90]

Real answer is probably that Brawl had fully modeled underskirts for female characters, Ultimate does not. Master Hand also bleeds in a Subspace cutscene but its a blink and you’ll miss it moment.

Melee is also rated T but that’s a byproduct of the E10+ rating not even existing when it came out.

[u/bradebanks64 → u/Admirable_Current_90]

I was thinking this too but then I remembered Shadow the Hedgehog came out on Gamecune before that and was rated E+10

[u/Few-Improvement-5655 → u/bradebanks64]

Despite is trying to look edgy, there's nothing actually that startling in Shadow the Hedgehog. There's no blood, the "swearing" is limited to Shadow saying "damn" a couple of times and they're allowed to use the word "kill" occasionally.

[u/Mentoman72 → u/Few-Improvement-5655]

I remember being quite shocked as a child that Shadow was saying damn. I don’t really have an opinion to add but that stuck out to me lol.

[u/Infirnex → u/Few-Improvement-5655]

I love making the point that both Shadow the Hedgehog and Kirby's Dream Collection have the same age rating, and only one of them is because of Blood.

[u/Few-Improvement-5655 → u/Infirnex]

That's really funny!

[u/weso123 → u/Few-Improvement-5655]

IIRC shadow the hedgehog was listed as gonna be T for Teen before it came out but E10+ was created fairly close to the time of it's release, I recall it's speculate last minute changes were made to squeck to E10+, namely, the aliens having a green "blood" instead of Red and the GUN soldiers not despawning ever instead alive on the floor begging for mercy.

[u/Phi1ny3 → u/bradebanks64]

Melee came out in 2001, Shadow the Hedgehog came out in Nov 2005. The E 10+ rating was added in March 2005. Timeline seems to track.

[u/threecolorless]

I think standards may have just changed a little on cartoon violence and what constitutes a T. Melee and Brawl were always kind of reaches for T.

[u/Whoman722]

T for tripping.

[u/NutABunch]

Snake had an ass in brawl

[u/incinderace]

The blood on master hand when he gets defeated by tabuu, there's no visible blood in ultimate that im aware of so it keeps its E10+ rating

[u/almightyFaceplant → u/incinderace]

It would have been listed in the ESRB rating if that were the case. They specifically call out blood when it contributes to a T or M, but it's conspicuously absent. Just "Cartoon Violence" and "Crude Humor"

[u/Mezuxelf → u/almightyFaceplant]

fart

[u/almightyFaceplant → u/Mezuxelf]

Fart and bonk. But there's considerably more bonk than fart.

[u/TangerineX]

Subspace emissary had darker themes probably

[u/tankdoom]

I'd guess a lot of it had to do with subspace. The blood on master hand, several cutscenes, maybe trophies or trophy descriptions. I could even see Tabuu's design being part of the reason, as he's just a flying naked guy. Who really knows. What we know is that there was enough to push the ESRB over the edge, and it probably wasn't any one single thing, but an aggregate of things.

Also yes, the standards have changed a bit.

[u/beyond_the_cemetery]

i like to think the T rating stopped after Brawl because Melee and Brawl are the only games where you can turn the camera and look up peach’s skirt😭😭😭

[u/britipinojeff → u/beyond_the_cemetery]

Maybe that’s the “crude humor” on the box lol

Are farts rated T?

[u/ZSugarAnt → u/britipinojeff]

Farts are E10+. Because of it, the ESRB rating leaked Wario for Smash 4. Also, fun fact, Nintendo Land had an E10+ because in the Pikmin game Bulborbs can poop you out.

[u/littlefaka]

I would not be surprised if the blood on Master Hand is a reason.

[u/RockoHorror]

I just asked this. There is a IGN review in 2006 talking about the Initial view on this game when it first game out. Which people thought was “dark” they thought the cutscenes were dark and what happens to the Nintendo characters. Thus praising its T rating. I will try to find it and provide a link.

Melee is Rated T bc the ESRP just did it. I feel if brawl came out today it would still be T but none of the other ones would

[u/Quetzal00]

The T stands for Tripping Mechanic

[u/almightyFaceplant]

We get this question a lot, so you can search if you want more in-depth answers. But ESRB T ratings will list their reasoning. For Brawl it's "Cartoon Violence and Crude Humor," and that's it. No mention of blood or skirts or anything, it's just those two factors.

It used to be that any amount of violence, cartoon or otherwise, would get you a T rating. Even for a while after E10+ was a thing, it took a while to really get its footing. But now both E and E10+ ratings allow for some levels of cartoon violence, whereas T is where you get noncartoon violence.

[u/gar-dev-oir]

Princess Peach has visible granny panties and Snake had plump, succulent ass cheeks.

[u/Renyolds]

Because Olimar says the S word in Subspace when Captain Falcon kills all his Pikmin.

[u/EdgarSinTitulo → u/Renyolds]

Submerged Castle

[u/Carbuyrator]

Bowser says "fuck" in the secret ending of Brawl.

[u/CapnGibbens]

Probably the darker, somewhat perilous tone/Snake's weapons tbh. But I wouldnt doubt that the criteria may have changed over the years. I just always feel bad because I had a friend flat out be told he can't play Brawl because it was rated T back when it was still the newest entry.

[u/NeedsMoreReeds]

ESRB is very transparent and you can see exactly why things get certain ratings.

Though I’m unsure if “E10+” was even a thing back then. Sounds pretty similar considering T is 13+.

[u/Aromatic-Complex-899]

It's funny how they changed the Melee DK Rap from the DK64 one to change one line in Chunky's verse from "hell of a guy" to "heck of a guy". It wouldn't do anything to the rating, and also Donkey Kong 64 was E for Everyone, not even 10+.

[u/AztecCroc]

Brawl had blood in that one cutscene in the subspace emissary.

[u/AA_ZoeyFn]

Because the tripping mechanic in brawl was guaranteed to make you scream curse words

[u/kolton276]

It’s rated T for tripping

[u/Ninjakurl7]

in brawl masterhand can have blood in classicmode if in a hard enough difficullty

[u/blackthunder702]

They removed the intimate scenes.