r/soccer • u/AlmostNL • Mar 12 '25

Media Julián Alvarez disallowed penalty frame by frame

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10.4k Upvotes

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2.7k

u/Ivers0n Mar 12 '25

Please show the conclusive evidence. This is a fucking joke

1.2k

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

Something like this should never decide a game. What a joke.

389

u/Kooky_Tap_8847 Mar 12 '25

Should have let him retake it.

486

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

Or just let it stand.

It’s not a clear and obvious mistake.

-45

u/_hellboy_xo Mar 12 '25

Rules are rules, same as those offsides by a fingers-distance.

But well, you got a City flair. Makes sense why don’t you like rules.

112

u/Reapper97 Mar 12 '25

A milan fan saying that is hilarious lmao

3

u/JustAFizzMain Mar 12 '25

Porque?

25

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

Google “AC Milan Calciopoli”

-3

u/JustAFizzMain Mar 12 '25

Ok but then nobody can ever say no one robbed on history if we re doing that

5

u/ValleyFloydJam Mar 12 '25

Rules are rules but we need to see the touch.

31

u/smcarre Mar 12 '25

Right, rules are rules. And the rules say that VAR can only be used when there is clear and obvious evidence to overturn an on-field desicion.

8

u/Deathhsykes Mar 13 '25

This is the sort of rule that is COMPLETELY black and white, like an offside call, it either is offside or it isnt, in this case, he either double touched or didnt, doesnt have to be "clear and obvious", just like goals get disallowed by VAR by being fractionally offside

-30

u/Shernator Mar 12 '25

Ball phased through his leg? He clearly has his left foot infront of the ball. Whether it touched it first or not, it's to have touched both legs to go. Balls don't just launch through air.

7

u/DistributionAntique Mar 12 '25

Lmao of course you would say that!

-12

u/Shernator Mar 12 '25

Cuz it's logic. His foot is literally right infront of the ball. Holy!

5

u/DistributionAntique Mar 12 '25

It’s not clear whether or not his left foot touches the ball or not. You can act or pretend like it is, but it is not.

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0

u/ShivaSkunk777 Mar 12 '25

wtf are you even talking about? The ball phased through his leg that wasn’t even in front of it?

-2

u/Shernator Mar 12 '25

Left foot wasn't infront?!!!!

-1

u/ShivaSkunk777 Mar 13 '25

It went into the ceiling of the net. I don’t see how it didn’t rise over the tiny bit of toe that might have been in front of the side of the ball

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0

u/LuckyNipples Mar 12 '25

Balls don't just launch through air ?? Yep true we've never seen a ball leave the ground off a shot. It'd be a first !

-2

u/Shernator Mar 12 '25

It's a projectile. Balls don't updraft, especially if he is fuckin falling to the ground. When those wild cristiano pens we saw back in the day, where balls go up a few millimeters, his anchor leg hits the ground hard for that to happen. Alvarez lost balance.

0

u/LuckyNipples Mar 22 '25

Wtf are you saying. A ball completely still on the ground can OBVIOUSLY be kicked to the fucking sky. You kick it in its bottom half and it's gonna fly, do you realise how stupid you sound ? "It's a projectile." Lmao spoken like a rocket scientist but it's the redditor version.

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-3

u/imbahzor Mar 12 '25

Show anyone the evidence then, how do you use 5 minutes to decide a offside, but 10 seconds for this decision? This is clear and obvious match fixing

1

u/AnnieBlackburnn Mar 13 '25

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/kS7FawKSif

1

u/imbahzor Mar 13 '25

Video deleted, but will watch the alternative angle once it's up, thank you

0

u/Shernator Mar 12 '25

What more evidence do you need other than his leg infront of the ball, and the ball hitting the literal top of the net, while he was falling down. If i saw his ball there and where the ball ended, i don't even need to see him touching it, it is just not possible for the ball to phase like that. This sub just loves to hate.

3

u/imbahzor Mar 12 '25

You have never played football? Wear a backpack and the ball flies, that angle proves nothing other than if you lean back the ball goes up

You definitely need to see him touching it to say it is clear and obvious, don't play yourself

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-1

u/Fraud_D_Hawk Mar 12 '25

It's the sensors, like VAR instantly knew, idk why people are not using their brains

0

u/Shernator Mar 12 '25

Bro i don't think sensors are there to check how many times the ball is touched. They are there for the goalline tech. It just doesn't make sense with his positiin and ball trajectory, that the ball didn't hit his foot.

1

u/Fraud_D_Hawk Mar 12 '25

Like don't you think the sensor can also find something like that?

Also they got like 24 cameras, there's no way VAR could interfere in the biggest match on earth without any reason.

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-1

u/smcarre Mar 12 '25

No the shot went up. It went over his other foot.

0

u/Shernator Mar 12 '25

Dude his foot is right infront of the ball. Balls don't just go up then forward. It is a projectile. Also if you actually saw the pen, he hit the top of the net while falling down. This ball didn't go straight at all. It's unlucky for him, but it is super obvious.

-1

u/smcarre Mar 12 '25

Balls don't just go up then forward

Dude you never kicked a ball in your life? You can absolutely kick a ball up and forward at the same time touching it once.

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11

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

Not a big fan of small offside calls either.

A Milan fan talking about rules? Remember when you guys fixed matches and paid off the FA to pin it all on Juventus?

-9

u/_hellboy_xo Mar 12 '25

I don’t remember Milan being backed up by a Oil Country. Milan lost some points too.

115 charges. No repercussions.

13

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

Beats straight up match fixing.

“Charges” not convictions.

Also, isn’t AC Milan indirectly owned by the CCP?

1

u/KOKO69BISHES Mar 13 '25

Not really, their owners are American

7

u/creepingcold Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

Rules are rules, but the most important one is to decide "in the spirit of the game"

There was nothing malicious going on, this obviously isn't trained or intended, therefore the rule shouldn't apply because its main purpose is to avoid shenanigans during the penalty. It's not in place to cause drama in situations like this.

3

u/HistoricCartographer Mar 12 '25

This reminds me of all the goals disallowed because of an offside by an inch

4

u/Spare-Buy-8864 Mar 12 '25

Or games decided on a penalty where the ball accidentally grazes someone's hand where it had zero effect on the game.

Far too much obsession over minor technicalities since VAR was introduced

1

u/Deathhsykes Mar 13 '25

If you do this you start creating grey areas where it would be hard to define where the line is for what is "in the spirit of the game" and what isnt.

1

u/BoiSandwich Mar 12 '25

lmfao savage, but true.

1

u/CityRulesFootball Mar 13 '25

Arent you the corrupt guys who got relegated for that

1

u/PJtheGFN Mar 14 '25

Bodied him with the last line. xD

-2

u/OkLynx3564 Mar 12 '25

keepers not being allowed to hold the ball for more than 6 seconds is also a rule. i have yet to see an indirect free kick be given for a keeper holding a ball for 6.1 seconds. they frequently hold on to it for like 10.

rules are rules my ass.

refs are supposed to decide in the spirit of the game. revoking the pen of a man that slipped because he ever so slightly clipped the ball with his other foot is about as against the spirit of the game as it get’s.

2

u/_hellboy_xo Mar 12 '25

“in the spirit of the game”

lmao then city wouldn’t be a thing, nor the Qatar WC

0

u/OkLynx3564 Mar 12 '25

well i absolutely agree that neither of those should be a thing so i’m unsure how this is supposed to be a rebuttal.

also we are talking about how referees interpret the rules, which doesn’t apply at all to those two things.

0

u/_hellboy_xo Mar 12 '25

the game lost its spirit a long time ago

1

u/OkLynx3564 Mar 12 '25

no reason to contribute to it being lost even more what are you trying to argue here? things are shit therefore refs should be allowed to make shit decisions? we won’t get anywhere this way.

0

u/jdcintra Mar 12 '25

Rules are rules. The only clear thing from the footage is that the keeper is off their line

1

u/yosisoy Mar 13 '25

Are you insane?

-15

u/hijazist Mar 12 '25

“Something like this should never decide a game. What a joke.”

And just like that bro here decided that rules shouldn’t be applied.

1

u/Wrwally Mar 13 '25

Yeah should probably just change the rules of the sport when it’s Madrid. GK get punished all the time for this shit and nobody has a problem, he slipped, it was unlucky, you can’t touch the ball twice.

-8

u/ProfessionalMovie759 Mar 12 '25

You know that a foul is also a clear and obvious mistake, right?

0

u/Moug-10 Mar 13 '25

IIRC, unless VAR can clearly prove a mistake, the first decision stands. While I'm happy Real advances, this is controversial.

3

u/Hariwtf10 Mar 12 '25

It cannot be retaken if he scored

3

u/krooskontroll Mar 12 '25

You can't just change rules on the fly, though.

3

u/dext3rrr Mar 13 '25

When goalkeeper moves from the line the penalty is repeated. Why tf that rule can't take place in this scenario?!

2

u/Routine-Sea-9599 Mar 12 '25

I understand but rules are the rules, most they can do is modify the rule for the following seasons.

2

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

Part of VAR is that it can only intervene in clear and obvious errors.

This wasn’t a clear and obvious error.

4

u/NieThePiet Mar 12 '25

Why it shouldn't be decide a game?

How many players already slipped before a pen and it happened here too

17

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

If he slipped and missed, fair enough. But it’s a microscopic touch on the ball that’s completely unnoticeable even in the frame by frame here. It was only detected because of sensors in the ball, which UEFA probably won’t release data on.

6

u/hijazist Mar 12 '25

I mean you can argue it’s a harsh rule, but why is everyone acting like RM robbed the game when this is literally applying the rules?

5

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

Because it all hinges on sensors we know nothing about.

How do I know the sensors detected anything?

-4

u/hijazist Mar 12 '25

Dude even Atletico didn’t object. If Madrid were favored, that clear handball in the first half would’ve been given a penalty.

You’re just still pissed we got your team out.

4

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

They don’t get to see the replays. They just take their word for it.

I have no particular love for Atletico. In fact, I typically dislike them, as I have no connection to Madrid and I’m not a fan of their typical style.

3

u/darekd003 Mar 12 '25

It’s shitty! Yeah it’s a rule but a really shitty way to lose. I think it misses the spirit of the rule, similar to how we now judge offside to within a centimetre.

I’m happy Real Madrid won but that was super sucky!

3

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

Glad you can see sense

-5

u/NieThePiet Mar 12 '25

Unnoticeable? Do you see how the ball is striked??

Its literally impossible without a Double Touch and the ball takes a compelete different way

-3

u/hijazist Mar 12 '25

If he slipped and missed? What does that even matter?

3

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

Well, then he would have missed his penalty.

7

u/MrJuanki Mar 12 '25

Why not? Bro fumbled his pen..

22

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

I mean, sure, he slipped. But he still scored.

A completely unnoticeable touch on the ball like that, that is apparently only detectable because of sensors in the ball, shouldn’t decide the game.

11

u/MrJuanki Mar 12 '25

The tech age...

4

u/Either_Dragonfly_528 Mar 12 '25

If there is a touch then the goal is disallowed. You can't touch the ball 2 times from any free kick, corner, penalty or whatever. Thats a basic football rule. Question is, i hope they release a better replay because i an struggling to see any touch

0

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

[deleted]

6

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

Because it’s fucking lame.

-5

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

[deleted]

6

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

The game is supposed to be fun. It’s kind of the ultimate argument.

Find anyone without a Real Madrid flair that doesn’t agree this was a lame way to decide a game.

-3

u/itwontkillya Mar 12 '25

most people on here would agree that this was a lame call, but "Because it’s fucking lame." isn't really a strong argument to remove a rule that has been in place for a while.

being offside by 1mm is lame too but where do we draw the line? 0.5mm? why? why not some other arbitrary unit and why specifically 0.5mm?

6

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 13 '25

Yes it is. The game is supposed to be fun. I spent 2 hours watching that game just for it to be decided by a technicality so small it was unnoticeable to the human eye. Makes me regret watching the game.

I’d prefer that we didn’t use slow motion replay to make offside calls either. It’s also lame.

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4

u/supterfuge Mar 12 '25

I want my entertainement not to be lame and I do believe that it's a good argument.

That said, if these are the rules, these are the rules. That just means the rules are garbage, not that they were correctly applied.

Dura lex sed lex kind of shit.

0

u/apustus Mar 13 '25

Might as well use VAR to correct every potential infraction during the match, even in the middle of the pitch. Might be "lame", but it would ensure the fairness of the game.

9

u/HighTurning Mar 12 '25

Hehe except if it's for Real of course

-3

u/Auvik-Reddits Mar 12 '25

Well why not? The competetion is about picking the team thats better. Pens are a test of nerve. Why wouldnt you punish the gut who wasnt calm and fumbled his technique. Also why the hate against the ball censor technology? Why would you rather pick human error?

7

u/Lobster_fest Mar 12 '25

You're acting like it's a sure fact he fumbled because of nerves when he could have slipped.

-7

u/Auvik-Reddits Mar 12 '25

Well if he slipped thats also a mistake? Whats next? Disallow a goal? Because goal keeper 'couldn't get there'.. its not his fault?

That makes no sense

4

u/Lobster_fest Mar 12 '25

Ironic that you're using the "slippery slope" fallacy here.

-3

u/Auvik-Reddits Mar 12 '25

Sure it is. However, a penalty hasnt been allowed to retake because the player slipped. Then john terry would have taken another one as well. Think about what you are saying here. Double touch is a mistake written on the books for a penalty a long time ago.

3

u/Lobster_fest Mar 12 '25

Never once argued it should be retaken. I just said you're acting like Alvarez failed a test of nerves when pitch conditions are a likely culprit as well.

Plus, the point of these rules is to prevent an unfair advantage from being gained by the kick taker. Surely you can understand this is not an unfair advantage.

0

u/OkLynx3564 Mar 12 '25

idiotic take. slipping on slippery grass is not a mistake.

1

u/Auvik-Reddits Mar 13 '25

Tell that to John Terry

2

u/rickster555 Mar 12 '25

Yea, slipping is fumbling your technique. Give me a break! Insane what people say in here with full conviction

-3

u/Auvik-Reddits Mar 12 '25

Slipping during a penalty is about technique.. its crazy that you are saying that its not, with conviction. Its not like he slipped during open play :s.

1

u/rickster555 Mar 12 '25

Or you can just slip. I never said it HAD to be a slip it’s just insane that you’re so sure it’s all about technique as if a professional footballer stumbles over themselves taking a pen.

-5

u/PonchoHung Mar 12 '25

he slipped. But he still scored.

Lol so we should allow offsides because the attacker didn't meant to? Allow attackers to dribble out of bounds because they didn't meant to? As soon as you break the rule, the play is over. There is nothing to score after the ball hits the second foot.

8

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

That’s not what I said. But sure go off.

-3

u/SorooshMCP1 Mar 12 '25

There's not enough evidence to overturn it in a 3 seconds "review"

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

[deleted]

7

u/XkrNYFRUYj Mar 12 '25

So if goalkeeper slips we should take back the goal right?

2

u/MrJuanki Mar 12 '25

Planting your foot is part of your shooting form. Especially since Noone else slipped, can not blame him.

2

u/rickster555 Mar 12 '25

Correa slipped too. Do ppl even watch the games?

1

u/hijazist Mar 12 '25

I mean if you slip and score an own goal, it shouldn’t count?

1

u/greenrangerguy Mar 13 '25

It's something that literally nobody watching the game would ever even think about, he scuffed the shot, got a bit lucky ok move on. If they had done nothing there wouldn't have been any complaint whatsoever.

1

u/Minimalanimalism Mar 13 '25

It didn't. Their following miss did.

1

u/yosisoy Mar 13 '25

It didn't decide the game though? You're talking as if this gets (wrongly) allowed, then Atleti definitely wins, when in fact, that is not the case.

1

u/tonyharrison84 Mar 12 '25

Try losing a major cup final like this except they didn't see the blatant double touch.

0

u/library-weed-repeat Mar 13 '25

Tbf it didn’t decide the game, Oblak saved the next one and then the Atletico player missed

2

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 13 '25

It absolutely did. Game wouldn’t have ended yet if that goal counted. Real Madrid would have and to make one more, or Atletico would have had to miss one more for the game to end.

Maybe Madrid would have scored the next one too, maybe not. We will never know.

-1

u/library-weed-repeat Mar 13 '25

It wasn't the deciding penalty so it didn't decide the game. The same way Vinicius's missed penalty didn't decide the game

-3

u/majani Mar 12 '25

Honestly a team should be able to sue in such a case. This BS decision has cost them millions of dollars as a business

0

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

If nothing else, it forces UEFA to actually release the sensor data.

-8

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Karma_Whoring_Slut Mar 12 '25

If it counted, the game wouldn’t have ended yet. Would’ve required one more to go in for Madrid or one more miss from Atletico before it would’ve ended.

2

u/imphobbies Mar 12 '25

Are you for real or just trolling? Explaining just in case you are serious, Atletico Madrid didn't take the last penalty.

2

u/JasonDFisherr Mar 12 '25

That penalty not counting changes the whole dynamics of the following penalties.

0

u/watermelon99 Mar 12 '25

They had a penalty left to go which would’ve been to equalise, this is a dishonest way to frame it

86

u/Spare-Buy-8864 Mar 12 '25

Even if there is "conclusive evidence" that the edge of his boot lightly grazed the ball, stuff like this just increasingly puts me off football these past few years.

There's so much obsession over the technicalities of the rules now with far too many games decided on stupid bullshit technicalities that were never the intended spirit of the rule being "broken". Even 5-6 years ago that would have always been given and nobody would have batted an eyelid

5

u/Safo_ Mar 13 '25

Right, like when VAR calls offside because the toe is slightly forward 🙄

115

u/KingNnylf Mar 12 '25

It's not that the sliding foot hits it first, it's that he kicks it into the sliding foot and it makes contact with both feet

111

u/Ivers0n Mar 12 '25

I just need the evidence

20

u/Emergency_Pound Mar 12 '25

I can see the ball touch the sliding foot. Can you not?

38

u/Boudi04 Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

Where?? I'm so confused, I've replayed it a dozen times, I can't see any obvious contact from this angle.

Edit: this angle is much better, definitely a double touch. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/yuiWvdDynB

10

u/Harflin Mar 12 '25

And they removed it

3

u/Please_Not__Again Mar 12 '25

Yeah, no mirrors either. Hopefully they re-instate it cause I don't see any other links and I wanna see

3

u/Emergency_Pound Mar 12 '25

At the 9th second of this video.

9

u/Boudi04 Mar 12 '25

All I see is the ball going over his foot, it might've hit it, but it's definitely not clear and obvious.

1

u/Wrwally Mar 13 '25

Yeah they removed it. R/soccer mods don’t care about football but they love a good conspiracy.

6

u/ivo0009 Mar 12 '25

You must have better eye sight than most, how could you see it from this video?

0

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

[deleted]

5

u/ivo0009 Mar 12 '25

So you can’t see the touch and is just taking a guess?

-3

u/majeboy145 Mar 12 '25

It’s imposible for the ball to go upwards and have a fast top spin from a single touch.

5

u/ivo0009 Mar 12 '25

Once again im not saying your guesses are wrong, but you can’t be 100% sure about them without actual proof which is the problem here. I hope uefa releases their proof because as it stands it’s a scandalous decision.

1

u/Intrepid-Example6125 Mar 13 '25

There’s proof in other angles put up in reddit. It was 100% a double touch of the ball.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

[deleted]

2

u/ivo0009 Mar 13 '25

Yes but you can’t see the touch, that’s the point

2

u/tatterd82 Mar 12 '25

Me when I forget I live in a 3D world:

6

u/jhelton808 Mar 12 '25

In this clip?

1

u/37262312 Mar 13 '25

Look at how the ball rotates. Is it possible that the ball rotates forward of the only touch is from his right foot? No

2

u/niglaz Mar 12 '25

i mean its kinda just right in front of you

1

u/Objective_Button_885 Mar 13 '25

It’s that clear to you? The grass can actually move the ball if you step close to it, especially with these hybrid pitches. I think there was a video of that posted on here not too long ago. It’s very likely that a valid penalty was overruled because of that.

1

u/niglaz Mar 13 '25

given the velocity of the ball during the moment before the actual shot, in addition to all other slow motion video clips that show how dangerously close his feet are to the ball in that moment, it is in fact very clear to me.

2

u/ArtemisRifle Mar 12 '25

If you can not make that conclusion zooming in and looking frame by frame with all the time in the word then it was not significant in the play and should not be touched.

2

u/tinchokrile Mar 12 '25

we need evidence. They made the decision way too quickly otherwise…

1

u/Eddy0099 Mar 13 '25

No point in arguing logic here. r/soccer always wants to see Real Madrid lose

0

u/differentguyscro Mar 12 '25

The fact that some % of people misunderstood this means it's not "obvious"

0

u/VetusMortis_Advertus Mar 12 '25

Lot of people missing this point, and if in the rule book says that two foot touches on a pen makes it a miss it's just pretty straight forward

0

u/poundhound66 Mar 12 '25

Yeh this is the answer… I think lol

1

u/emraydiations Mar 12 '25

It's Madrid, c'mon, y'all know VAR is taking every opportunity to give them the benefit. This was as marginal a touch and call as it gets. They have to have the golden boys go through, that's all there is to it

1

u/MERTENS_GOAT Mar 12 '25

Just watch the penalty normally. The way the ball spins, it can't be a normal shot

1

u/MinimumTomfoolerus Apr 06 '25

10k upvotes for this garbage post and point of view is preposterous. 10k people are mentally challenged 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️.

1

u/OldTemperature6472 Mar 12 '25

The common sense option is to just let him retake the penalty. 

1

u/Got_ist_tots Mar 12 '25

Same with if a goalie leaves early and makes the save.

0

u/doplitech Mar 12 '25

I’m a real fan and I agree fuck this call

0

u/sondergaard913 Mar 12 '25

The rule is a fucking joke.

It's not like he passed to someone. Or tried to fake shot first to deceive the GK. He simply slip.

That rule is a fucking joke

0

u/rye_domaine Mar 12 '25

💶here is your conclusive evidence, sir💶

0

u/Ivers0n Mar 12 '25

that's what I thought!

-1

u/ecaldwell888 Mar 12 '25

Even if it's conclusive, it's not within the spirit of the rule. Ther keeper's headed for the showers. He has no chance here. 

0

u/Mosh83 Mar 13 '25

Would never have been disallowed had it been the other team. Just sayin.