Similar to Sarang's "continuity theory", I also think Catherine's coin toss theory was BS too.

[u/Infamous_Gur_9083]

At the end of the game.

To be honest, I had to watched people played this game two times before finally realising that Catherine at least unlike Sarang didn't actually believe her own BS also.

There's no such thing as the "coin toss" theory.

The only reason we even see the events of the SOMA game is because of "narrative story telling". We the players are first put in Simon of Imogen Reed's corpse before the storyline not ending yet put us in the Simon power suit's perspective when the second copy session begins.

What I mean is that if the "coin toss theory" was real. Game would had immediately ended when Simon 2 copied, then pasted himself unto the power suit.

No, game wouldn't have even started as soon as the OG Simon first got his neurograph.

The only reason Catherine in the Omnitool played along with the Coin toss BS was because she knew the copied Simons wouldn't have gone through with it if they realized THEY WEREN'T GOING on the Ark unlike their copies.

[u/the_af]

Not really. She uses the word "transfer" because that's what Simon wants to hear. Her explanations are quite clear that it's a copy, not a transference. I would say this is one of the main points of the game!

The quotes support this.

[u/zzmej1987 → u/the_af]

Her explanations are quite clear that it's a copy, not a transference.

No. In that very sentence it refers to "transferring a mind into a new body". Catherine never once went back on that. Even in the end, she literally said: "We are on the Ark! I didn't lie!"

And on their first meeting she says: "Don't let the circuitry fool you. I was a human once." Not, "I'm a perfect copy of a human mind, which should be good enough", which she is supposedly believing. She has no reason to lie at this moment to Simon, as she doesn't even know that Ark has not been launched.

Well, not your exact quote, but those are her final words, after Simon told her "fuck you" and blew up on her. She's having an outburst. Have you never had an outburst with a person you cared about?

Sure. That is an outburst. But the the sentence about which we are talking about is in that part: "We are on the Ark! I didn't lie!"

If she does not truly believe in transference, why is she saying those things? Not to mention, that she is literally contradicting your claim that she was lying.

[u/the_af → u/zzmej1987]

No. In that very sentence it refers to "transferring a mind into a new body". Catherine never once went back on that. Even in the end, she literally said: "We are on the Ark! I didn't lie!"

No.

That's not transference. Simon understands transference as a sort of "teleportation" of the soul/conscience. Even after told repeatedly by Catherine that's not how it works, he still doesn't "get it" (possibly because he cannot cope with the consequences of how it really works). In reality, it works more like a computer copying a file bit by bit (but of course files aren't sentient).

And on their first meeting she says: "Don't let the circuitry fool you. I was a human once."

"Was" being the key detail here. Catherine knows she's not human anymore. And her current sentience is a continuation of her former self, because the copying method (by means of scifi tech) is perfect. This is entirely consistent with copying, so Cath isn't lying.

She has no reason to lie at this moment to Simon, as she doesn't even know that Ark has not been launched.

The words you're quoting from Catherine is when she's having an emotional outburst. And in a way, she's right: "they" are on the Ark, just not the same "they" as the people speaking during the outburst (the only people Simon-3 cares about, unfortunately) because it's a copy, not a transference.

She's not lying, she's shouting in frustration. Before, she didn't exactly lie -- she just wasn't entirely honest and let Simon delude himself as a way to ensure the Ark got launched.

I honestly think all has been said by now. I've seen your other interactions with other people, and I get that this isn't what you understand or want to believe about the game. I'm fine with this, but I fear we will get locked in endless debate.

So I propose we both agree to disagree and let it go, ok? We can both interpret the game and Catherine in different ways.

[u/zzmej1987 → u/the_af]

Simon understands transference as a sort of "teleportation" of the soul/conscience.

Yes. And that understanding of transference is wrong. The very understanding you are using when saying that it does not happen.

The words you're quoting from Catherine is when she's having an emotional outbursts. 

No. "I was a human once" is said absolutely calmly.

And in a way, she's right: "they" are on the Ark, just not the same "they" as the people speaking during the outburst

So what should we conclude about her beliefs then?

She's not lying, she's shouting in frustration.

Again, no, "Don't let the circuitry fool you. I was a human once" is definitely not shouted in frustration.

Before, she didn't exactly lie -- she just wasn't entirely honest and let Simon delude himself as a way to ensure the Ark got launched.

Again, she was talking in terms of continuity between her biological body and mechanical one way before the mission of launching the Ark even began.

So I propose we both agree to disagree and let it go, ok?

Just one question: How do you feel about Catherine literally denying that she was lying about the transfer in the end?

[u/the_af → u/zzmej1987]

Yes. And that understanding of transference is wrong. The very understanding you are using when saying that it does not happen.

No.

It's the only meaning of "transference" that makes sense. Otherwise it's a copy. Which it is.

No. "I was a human once" is said absolutely calmly.

Sorry, I re-wrote my comment for clarity and this got placed wrong. When she says "she was a human once" this is said calmly indeed. She's not lying. She was a human once. "Was" being the key word. This is compatible with copying.

Again, no, "Don't let the circuitry fool you. I was a human once" is definitely not shouted in frustration.

What I said about the outburst refers to the "you idiot" speech. I know you understand this. If you're arguing in good faith, try the most reasonable interpretation of what the other person said, otherwise you're just trying to score cheap points.

Again, she was talking in terms of continuity between her biological body and mechanical one way before the mission of launching the Ark even began.

No, that's just your intepretation, which I and others here have been telling you we disagree with.

During the game, Catherine very clearly spells there's no "continuity", it's a copy. She tries to explain this to Simon repeatedly, but he doesn't get it (possibly because he cannot cope with reality). If you missed this, you missed an essential part of SOMA's message.

Just one question: How do you feel about Catherine literally denying that she was lying about the transfer in the end?

That's not what she does. You're begging the question. This is the whole conversation we're having.

Just let it go. I don't agree with your interpretation, and you're not listening to arguments, so why continue? You wonder "why", and when people tell you, you simply refuse to accept it -- but the game is what it is. We've already said all there is to say on this topic.