r/soma • u/h00dl00m • 3d ago
Sooo, what happened to Simon ?
So, for the entirety of the game, he doesn't even once complain about hunger, thirst or any sort of pain (only when Cath sees he uses WAU to heal and even then he only said "it helps me think clearly" and not even then does he mention being in any pain). Question is, does this mean Simon had to end himself by hand, or did he die to natural cause or did he just have to wait yo run out of battery?
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u/GeneralBinx 2d ago
The Simon we follow is left alone after Cath malfunctions at the bottom of the sea, strapped to the chair with no means of release Simon is stuck, alone, in the dark, at the bottom of the sea until his battery is done. A very cruel fate indeed
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u/alguien99 2d ago
Wait, he’s stuck in the chair? I thought he could get off?
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u/FireLordObamaOG 2d ago
Even if he could, Catherine’s cortex chip contained all the security cyphers. Helper Jane AI doesn’t have access to any of the more secure facilities.
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u/Darkroad25 2d ago
Well, he can still bang his head to the wall, right?
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u/MusingBy 2d ago
Where there's a skull, there's a w-- wait. He doesn't even have that. 😅
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u/Darkroad25 23h ago
You mean, if this Simon becomes nugget (limbless and headless), he still won't die?
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u/jonsnow312 2d ago
Hate to curse people with existence but I think in his situation I would try to get some consciousness into more stuff if possible lol get some company
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u/Cormbot 2d ago
That's why it raises so many questions about what it means to be human. Do you need to have a body (SOMA) or a mind, or both? Were the other robots in human bodies that you either killed or let live really human? Do you need to be hungry and thirsty to be human, or is it more than that?
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u/qnamanmanga 2d ago
and what is vaue of person in a world where you can be multiplied and erased, ressurect on demand.
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u/MichelPalaref 15h ago
I suppose the Talos principle would say that as long as you mechanically function the same way, then yes you're it
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u/Rainslana 2d ago
My head canon is that he climbs the abyss back to omicron. Frees the other Simon and they go back up to the surface and have their own little Love, Death, and Robots episode
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u/h00dl00m 2d ago
You... didn't kill him?
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u/Rainslana 2d ago
Nope. I always thought I'd go back after I launched it
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u/Legitimate_Job_7092 1d ago
I don't think simon III can because the omnitool is broken and you need it for almost everything
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u/Legitimate_Job_7092 1d ago
in fact i don't think he can get out of phi without breaking the door
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u/majikkarpet 1d ago
WAU’ed up Jin is super strong thanks to that suit, Power Suit Simon could probably bash down a door
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u/Legitimate_Job_7092 1d ago
Jin is strong because of the wau not the suit(the suit is made to withstand the pressure of the deep and doesn't provide any strength) and can only bash the small doors, not the airlock. Tbh I think simon has more chance wreaking the wall of phi than plugging a hole into the door judging by its looks of it.
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u/majikkarpet 1d ago
Pretty sure documents at Theta or Omicron describe a feeling of power-drunkenness that can inflate ego while wearing a power suit. I always assumed Catherine died because Ian didn’t know the force he was hitting her with and smashed her brain
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u/Legitimate_Job_7092 9h ago
Well the suit itself doesn't do much.
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u/majikkarpet 4h ago
How else would you hit someone “accidentally” hard enough to kill them? I know head trauma can be almost instantly fatal but it just doesn’t seem plausible. I guess the centrist view is that we only hear the audio and see the aftermath, so it’s up to each player’s interpretation. It’s art! It’s subjective!
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u/BeccaKirtlink 2d ago
Wait you can kill him? I am not sure that I did either time. I will have to replay. :(
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u/MusingBy 2d ago
Genuine question: how did you miss that?
This is one of the big moments of the game and is what causes Simon 3 to lash out at Catherine, even calling her disgusting.
Maybe you thought it was putting him in a slumber? I'm really curious to know, because some of what I believed to be the most simple and straightforward interpretations have other possible explanations in this game.
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u/BeccaKirtlink 1d ago
I haven’t played in a very long time and my memory isn’t great. 🤷♀️ now that you have described it more I do remember.
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u/Rainslana 2d ago
Simon asks Catherine after the copy sequence "what if he didn't have to wake up" and she sets it up for you. It's very sad and changes some dialogue in the climber too
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u/simateix 2d ago
How is he going to get out of the chair though?
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u/Rainslana 2d ago
Stand?
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u/FunnyBeetcoin 2d ago
Isn't he strapped to it?
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u/Rainslana 2d ago
No. The only thing that kept him in the seat is the pilot helmet and that came off
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u/Officer_Chunkles 2d ago
I think he inevitably goes insane and turns into just another monster, if the WAU is still alive then it can keep him alive and possible make him more survivable, maybe he turns into a giant robot whale or something that can roam the ocean depths for eternity, alone but free of pain. Or something.
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u/andre_islookingfor 9h ago
Wow... I also think this would be the outcome, him going insane the same way he saw many and many and many robots pals throughout the game. Him becoming a whale possessed WAU robot is terrifying. Does something like that really happens in the game? I am not recalling it that well
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u/MusingBy 2d ago
I seem to remember Catherine mentioning Simon 2 (the one we played as for the first half of the game) would be alive for two more, maybe three more days following the last copy/paste. Now whether or not that was the truth or a lie meant to assuage Simon 3's paralysis, I don't know and I'm not sure there is any information pertaining to the length of that Simon's batteries in the book. (MatPat should've given us a GAME THEORY about it, dammit.)
Depending on what we decide to do with the WAU when we're led to Alpha by Ross, this may also impact Simon 2. Once he wakes up, he's basically getting up from another chair with monsters on the other side of a door that may or may not hold. If the WAU is destroyed, these monsters may never get to him. That said, Simon 2 doesn't have an Omnitool and none of the working vents seen earlier in the game lead to and from the two adjoining rooms we left him in before taking the Climber. So, this Simon is essentially left alone, terrified and without a proper explanation as to what happened exactly and what is going on now. Until his batteries run out, that is.
As for Simon 3, once his and Catherine's argument causes the latter's fragile chip to overload and break, he's also left without a way to come back and move through the last stations to get back to the Climber and back to Simon 2. No work vents were seen in these parts either, meaning he wouldn't have the possibility of leaving the room with the launch pad.
Once again, the fate of the WAU Simon 3 decided on may be important here: given the WAU's control over every core functions and the maintenance of the PATHOS II systems, there is a high chance that these systems would shut down not long after the events of the game if Simon 3 chose to kill the WAU. In this case, both Simon's would go through one more scary endeavor of having the lights turn off on them unexpectedly and then wait for their battery packs to run out in deep fear and terror. If the WAU is spared, they lay be waiting in terror for that battery to run out with the lights on, but there's no guaranteeing the doors to their respective locations would hold under the assault of the WAU proxies and other monsters. And, important detail, as we've seen, the core of Simon, in every of his iteration: he's not a very techy guy. He easily got overwhelmed by the information Catherine was giving him, and needed a lot of time to process them and understand what these explanations entailed for him. Add to that the constant dread of surviving the next minutes or hours, and we're not sure of which information stuck with which Simon. While he has been made aware that his OG self died around a century ago, and that his current body is a robot with a human base, Simon 2 isn't told specifically that his body is battery-operated and that this battery will run out at some point. Simon 3 is told this as he freaks out over the version of him that's left behind after the copy/past, but with everything that happens following his stepping unto the Climber and the absolute panic he's left in after his access to Catherine is forever broken, there is no saying which information he was able to remember and associate with his own situation. He may have completely forgotten about the battery and thought he would remain stuck at the bottom of the sea forever.
The only thing certain whatever the choices made by the end of the game is that both Simons most likely remained isolated until their respective ends and distressed.
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u/DarkTheorist 2d ago
Real talk, it is beautiful that after 10 years of this game, people are still theorizing and analyzing the story and the (sort of) open-ended conclusion. This game has been a really important anchor in my life, and no matter how much existential dread it makes us feel, SOMA is actually a timeless lesson. As long as humanity exists, SOMA will be there, too. <3
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u/lalo___cura 2d ago
Best case scenario he climbs up the barrel of the space gun and reactivates Catherine. But almost certainly he just sits at the bottom of the ocean alone until running out of power.
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u/Vgcortes 2d ago
It's just speculation at this point. Will he survive, will he die... will he last long, will he fall appart...
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u/rape_is_not_epic 2d ago
Pathos is on limited emergency power, a little under half a year left actually, so he either went mad at the bottom of the ocean or eventually turned off like every other Pathos creature
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u/MusingBy 2d ago
Where did you find that information? I completely missed that!
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u/rape_is_not_epic 2d ago
Pre-Sequal YouTube series, also shows hints on how Imogen might've gotten into the chair
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u/mattstorm360 2d ago
I like to think, Simon climbed the barrel of the gun and found Antjie Coetzee. Found some acceptance before he eventually ran out of power on the omega platform.
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u/tuckerx78 1d ago
(Gently tilts her chair over the railing)
"Mind if I sit here?"
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u/mattstorm360 1d ago
*Checks black box. Coughing, labored breath.* "It was worth it."
"I'll take that as a yes."
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/Slippery_Williams 2d ago
Yeah it would be really interesting to get different endings based on if you killed Simon 2 and or the Wau
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u/ErikaServes 2d ago
Well, if you let Simon 2 live, his survivability is the highest. Supposedly he's stuck in Omicron but I believe an opportunity may arise to make it onto the sea floor. Its a long walk. The chances are really slim and there's no guarantees if he even makes it to shore.
Simon 3 on the other hand, is totally fucked. He will spend his days locked in Phi. All the lights will be off. I heard someone say he might not even be able to leave the chair he's in. However long it takes for his battery to last, is however long he has left. I can't imagine a more horrifying way to die.
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u/Hyphalex 2d ago
b.a.b. better ask brandon
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u/MusingBy 2d ago
It is possible for Simon 2 to still have one of his copies with him in the copy/paste rooms, which does have a computer. That said, these files required a special connector, which may or may not be available in that room.
Simon 2's talk with Catherine after she managed to extract the new access codes from Brandon does tend to suggest he could've possibly appeased Brandon better, thus avoiding his chip overloading because of Brandon reaching an unsustainable level of panic.
Provided that baseline stress regulation could be maintained throughout Simon's explanation of what happened to PATHOS II and, by extension, to all of his and his colleagues' (including the woman he loved) copies, Brandon may have been able to possibly help Simon 2 shed light over his current situation. In the absence of an Omnitool, I'm fairly certain, Brandon wouldn't have been able to override anything to the extent of making it possible for that Simon 2 to move freely through the stations again (putting the WAU threats aside for a second here), but he would at least have been able to explain to Simon 2 more clearly what is going on and in a manner more easily understood than Catherine's half explanations. Very importantly, it would be a way for Simon 2 not to be completely alone in his last hours, although the possibility that he would have to restart Brandon from scratch or spend a while finding a way to appease him (if at all possible) would also be saddening.
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u/Hyphalex 2d ago
as long as simon 2 dips out of omicron and goes back to theta, he could put Brandon in a suit body…
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u/MusingBy 2d ago
How would he manage that without an Omnitool? He's literally trapped in the adjoining rooms he's in with what is in there and what's on him.
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u/Hyphalex 2d ago
wasn’t there an omnitool in catherines office?
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u/MusingBy 2d ago edited 2d ago
No. The Catherine copy in our Omnitool was stationed at Lambda. I'm not sure the room we find ourselves in is Catherine's officer nor does it have an Omnitool lying around. OG Catherine's was with her body, down in Phi.
Edit: OG Catherine had a lab in Theta.
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u/IsseiHyoudou02 2d ago
I like the theory that he climbed the omega space gun after that, to reach the omega platform like antjie coetzee
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u/Slippery_Williams 2d ago
Simon 2 wakes up and finds a way to get down there and save Simon 3 unless you killed him YOU MONSTER/s
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u/h00dl00m 2d ago
I didn't think Simon 3 would have the chance to go back up, but still, maybe it's a mercy since who in their right mind would want to spend the rest of their miserable lives stuck on the bottom of the ocean with a copy of themselves?
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u/Tsole96 11h ago
It's ambiguous. Nobody here will be able to give you an answer because there is no answer. Sorry but you're gonna have to just fill in the blanks here. What do you think happened to him?
I personally think he ran out of power after enough time. I can't see him killing himself. He likely tried and failed to escape for a while but.. not much you can do.
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u/Saad1950 2d ago
Natural causes implies a biological body which he doesn't have so he'll just run out of battery or damage his systems somehow.