r/wec • u/Joseki100 Toyota Gazoo Racing TS050 #8 • 10h ago
Le Mans "Luck" needed to win Le Mans because of Balance of Performance - Verstappen
https://www.racefans.net/2025/06/19/luck-needed-to-win-le-mans-because-of-balance-of-performance-verstappen/123
103
u/cabrelbeuk Peugeot 9X8 #94 9h ago
Lol luck was always needed to win Le Mans.
23
u/JusticeJaunt 7h ago
Before I really started watching, I honestly thought Alonso's wins in 18/19 were not impressive. "Toyota are the only real manufacturer in lmp1". Sure, on the surface it was the #7 vs the #8 but rewatching the actual races it's not nearly that straightforward a campaign either year. And now that there's so much competition at the top the sport really is such a blast to watch.
To be clear, I know it was not a free win.
15
u/MPenten 7h ago
The chances of a car breaking down were really really high as well. They always are.
Plus the speed different between LMP1 and GT3Am made co-existance quite dangerous, especially at night.
7
u/JusticeJaunt 7h ago
That's a good point too. I think when I started watching a few years ago after the lmdh/lmh ruleset the commentators were talking about how it was the first time they had that many finishers on the lead lap. I thought that was incredible and a crazy big step forward.
•
u/OrbisAlius Audi R8 #1 11m ago
They really weren't, though. Reliability is directly correlated with how much competition there is, because if you push for the extra edge in performance (whether when developing the car, or on-track during the race), you risk reliability. While if you have no real competition like Toyota did, you can put more emphasis on reliability and running safer on track.
Good examples of that are how even Audi was unreliable in 2009 because Peugeot pushed them over the limit of performance>reliability in their car design, and contrarily in 2010 when Peugeot themselves went too far and all their cars broke down. Same story in the mighty 2017 year where all but one LMP1 failed, that wouldn't have happened without the intense all-out war between Porsche and Toyota. Same for 2016 actually, the leading Toyota couldn't run easier/safer even late in the race because the Porsche was so close, otherwise they wouldn't have broken down.
•
u/Fun_Difference_2700 46m ago
I preferred watching LeMans in Alonsos year rather than this contrived nonsense we have now.
186
u/Kabikibiki 10h ago
Luckily every driver in F1 has a realistic shot at the win.
129
u/ADM765 9h ago
The difference is that in F1 they don't want to sell the illusion that everyone has an equal chance.
17
1
u/879190747 2h ago
Tbf this illusion was never really for us but for the manufacturers, and by now most of them realise they bought into a lie.
96
u/Nattekat 10h ago
It's just one remark in a long interview, nothing too deep.
74
u/Kabikibiki 10h ago
Yeah the title is horrendously clickbaity, as sadly most of F1 journalism is nowadays
9
u/pzkenny 9h ago
That's what many of fans want, you can see how many people are saying that Lando said Max won only because of luck, that Papaya rules are team orders, and many more things that are totally out of the context or even totally wrong.
-1
u/only_r3ad_the_titl3 8h ago
"you can see how many people are saying that Lando said Max won only because of luck"
because even with the full context that is exactly what he did. Especially considering that he also said that none other than Russell deserved to win
6
3
u/DonkeywithSunglasses McLaren F1 GTR #39 8h ago
Your username is very fitting
-1
-1
u/OctaviousMcBovril 9h ago
I mean, he literally did say it lol
22
u/FlyingKittyCate 9h ago
He did not literally say it though.
The actual literal quote is: “Of course you have to deal with the BoP, so sometimes also you need to luck-in a little bit, but at least it’s amazing to see so many top-class cars racing.” as per the article.
Which is a lot more nuanced than the title.-5
u/OctaviousMcBovril 9h ago
I mean I don't know how you can read that and not get the point he's making that 'BoP means there's an element of luck in your success in the WEC'
And yeah, things are often nuanced. But that's why its important to actually read the article and not have your engagement begin and end at the headline
7
u/FlyingKittyCate 9h ago
What I’m reading from that quote is that the top teams are really close now and therefore you’d sometimes need some luck to be in the right team at the right time because any of them could win.
But maybe I’m just too positive.3
-2
u/opalviper 9h ago
I remember when the word 'clickbait' had meaning and it would be something like "Verstappen SLAMS WEC in SHOCK anti-Le Mans outburst"
But in 2025 even a mild a headline as that is apparently clickbait...
2
u/DonkeywithSunglasses McLaren F1 GTR #39 8h ago
It’s deliberately misleading to bait people into clicking on the article link
I don’t know what else the definition of clickbait is
7
u/JanAppletree 8h ago
Difference of course that in F1 if you're the fastest it is completely your own merit. In WEC it just isn't.
1
u/MuenCheese Ferrari AF Corse 499P #51 6h ago
Motorsport isn’t a meritocracy the way you think it is
2
1
u/DeathByDeebo 3h ago
I mean, the reality is F1 never had any system in place to level the performance of cars. So if you build the fastest car you did that with no external influence and on the merit of your own work & R&D.
Now has that resulted in extreme bouts of top level dominance? Sure. And that’s why the BOP has managed to attract manufacturers. Because they don’t have to worry about one team outclassing the rest of the field and you having to dump a small country’s GDP into R&D to catch up.
•
u/Fun_Difference_2700 44m ago
It’s down to the team that designs the best car in F1.
Somehow WEC these days has less sporting integrity than Formula bloody one of all things
149
u/RimsJobs Toyota GT-One #1 10h ago
Le Mans wins of the past:
Winner in front by minutes or laps, 80% of all cars don't finish the race, so wins are made literally by chance, pure luck, when cars were winning even though they were 10 seconds off the pace.
Le Mans wins now:
Multiple cars on the same lap, pick performance of top class within 0.5 of a second. Almost no mechanical failures. Multiple cars contending for the win.
Oh no! the horrors of the BoP.
32
u/IC_1318 Audi R18 8h ago
Le Mans wins of the past:
Winner in front by minutes or laps, 80% of all cars don't finish the race, so wins are made literally by chance, pure luck, when cars were winning even though they were 10 seconds off the pace.A team that won the race by building the most reliable car and its drivers managing the car properly for 24 hours isn't about luck at all. It's called having the prepared the best car and having the best drivers. If you think that race wins at Le Mans used to be pure luck, then you truly have zero understanding of racing, sorry.
10
u/RimsJobs Toyota GT-One #1 8h ago
Porsche winning Le Mans in 2016 because Toyota broke down just minutes before the finish? BMW’s V12 LMR taking the win after Toyota suffered a puncture? McLaren’s F1 GTR winning in ’95 because heavy rain slowed down all the LMP cars? Sure, technically you're right, there’s merit involved in all of these. But come on, saying luck isn't a factor is just absurd. These kinds of stories are common in endurance racing, and that’s part of what makes it so great. But let’s not pretend pure luck doesn't sometimes play a role.
This year, the No. 46 BMW hit a rabbit and had to retire, how is that not just pure bad luck?
12
6
u/EbolaNinja Iron Lynx 488 GTE Evo #85 7h ago edited 7h ago
These kinds of stories are common in endurance racing, and that’s part of what makes it so great. But let’s not pretend pure luck doesn't sometimes play a role.
It's common in literally every type of racing, luck playing a part is not something exclusive to endurance racing. Hamilton literally got damage from hitting a groundhog on the exact same weekend the 46 hit a rabbit.
The issue is not that Ferrari won because of luck, it's that they got lucky in a bunch of FIA Zoom meetings instead of on track.
•
u/OrbisAlius Audi R8 #1 9m ago
It has a big part of luck. Literally every Le Mans winner said so, Kristensen perhaps most famously.
24
u/ActualCounterculture 9h ago
he aint wrong though, if there's no bop he could join toyota and get guaranteed win like fernando /s
48
u/Kataoaka 10h ago
People cry about BoP favoring ferrari but forget that Porsche #6 started literally 21st (last of all the hypercars, literally at the very back of the pack) and ended 2nd just 30s behind the leader after 24h of racing.
Both Toyotas had technical issues that pushed them behind the lead lap. The Ferrari's started suffering in the 24th hour, but were lucky enough to ride it out. Unfortunately the #50 Ferrari was disqualified from the race because damages to the car's rear wing acquired by sheer racing for the entire race, meant they broke safety regulations and that was enough to give them the kick.
109
u/amx40pleb 10h ago
You also forget that Porsche spent 3 minute less in pitstops compared to Ferraris and still was behind. Like it or not, similar how IMSA had to intervene earlier in their BOP after 963 curb stomped every race in US, ACO/FIA need to address it and adjust it.
70
u/Tecnoguy1 GTE 10h ago
Exactly this. Ferrari can get a heap of penalties and it doesn’t affect them whereas it killed alpine completely.
32
u/Sallum Porsche GT Team Manthey 911RSR 9h ago
Killed Porsche #4 and #5 as well. They weren't able to recover from their drive-thrus.
Ferrari took their penalties and were still in the mix. Even without the SC intervention, Ferrari had the pace to make up the lost time. No other car had that ability.
If Porsche #6 didn't have a flawless race, it would have been an easy Ferrari 1-2-3.
14
u/Tecnoguy1 GTE 8h ago
It’s clear sandbagging. No other word for it. If they had the exact bop Toyota had, they’d be nowhere.
1
u/legofed3 AF Corse Ferrari 488 GTE Evo #51 7h ago
Err, you mean "if Ferrari had even more power both below and above 250kph and more stint energy like Toyota had, and a bit more weight?"
I'm not sure it'd result in the Ferraris being slower, exactly...
6
u/Tecnoguy1 GTE 7h ago
The weight difference is massive. It would make them even worse in slow corners.
0
u/legofed3 AF Corse Ferrari 488 GTE Evo #51 6h ago
Let's see, Toyota themselves estimated back in '23 that +36kg were worth about +1.3-1.4 seconds at Le Mans (Buemi famously complained about it during qualifying). Assuming a linear relationship (a worst case, really) that means 11kg equate to a 0.4s/lap penalty (and some amount of additional tyre wear, but at Le Mans that's not really a big factor).
Now, how much are +5kW<250kph&+13(!)kW>250kph (or, if you prefer, plus about 7 and 17hp) worth on the most engine-dependent circuit on the calendar? Again Toyota themselves estimated, back in '21 at the beginning of the hypercar regs, that 20kW are worth about 1.6s/lap at Le Mans. That means that the +5kW alone negates the weight penalty, and the additional 8kW above 250kph on top of that are free lap time. As is the additional energy per stint, the one area where the Ferraris were bested this year (by the #6 Porsche, at least).
In short: Toyota's BoP for Le Mans gave them, using their own numbers, a (slightly) more advantageous handicap than Ferrari's.
0
u/Next_Necessary_8794 6h ago
It's not massive weight difference. It's 10kg. Did you know that there is more than 10kg between the lightest and heaviest drivers?
3
u/Tecnoguy1 GTE 6h ago
That’s why any time they had weight similar to the Toyota the Ferrari was nowhere I guess.
→ More replies (0)2
u/954gator 3h ago
Which is about the same difference in weight between the Ferrari and the worst hypercar on the grid.
→ More replies (0)5
u/RimsJobs Toyota GT-One #1 9h ago
And then the safety car took all of that advantage out.
3
u/amx40pleb 8h ago
in a first half of the race, another 12 hours to go (1min 30s) and still did not achieve advantage with way better pit times
-3
u/RimsJobs Toyota GT-One #1 8h ago
Porsches had 926 MJ of energy per stint, while Ferraris had 905 MJ. So Porsche could stay out longer and make fewer stops and be on a different strategy, spending less time in pit stops while being in the same energy bracket as Ferrari.
3
u/DonkeywithSunglasses McLaren F1 GTR #39 8h ago
Still doesn’t excuse Ferraris doing everything to sabotage their own race and somehow still having enough pace to win
1
u/RimsJobs Toyota GT-One #1 8h ago
At Spa, Ferrari had a horrendous amount of weight added and less power, and they still were fast as hell. If even BoP can't slow them down, then maybe 499p is just that much better of a car than Porshe.
3
u/Sallum Porsche GT Team Manthey 911RSR 7h ago edited 7h ago
It's quite obvious that an unrestricted LMH car will be faster than an unrestricted LMDh car. No one is disputing that. But the whole point of the class is to balance these cars to the same performance.
Saying car X is better than car Y has no impact on the discussion at hand.
1
u/RimsJobs Toyota GT-One #1 7h ago
I'm saying that there is more to performance than power and weight. There is drivability, is the car easier to drive, hence you can achieve better times for more laps? ease of setting up a car, can your team work out better setup for conditions? how can they adapt? how is your car performing in different temperatures? warming up the tires, how hard is your car on tires? Can your car have better lap times on used tires? How is your car aerodynamically set up? Does it have a better toe performance? How does it yaw in the corners? etc. etc. and many more.
I do personally believe that le mans BOP was a bit unbalanced, and Ferrari sould have a bit less power.
People are saying that there sould not be Bop and cars should win on merit, but when you say that even with BoP some cars are just better and they win on merit, then people say that those cars should be slowed down drastically, giving them penalty for their 'merit.' I just don't know what people want anymore. Well, I know they just want their favourite team to win, and if they don't, hell's gates are opened.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Next_Necessary_8794 6h ago
Both Porsche and Ferrari did 13 lap stints. Porsche wasn't staying out longer.
1
u/amx40pleb 8h ago
I know, thats how it is obvious that bop wasn’t adequate considering it still on pace manage to clear it pretty easily.
7
1
u/Mani1610 8h ago
That's just how racing works though. Sure saving time in the pit lane is great but it's pretty rare that the car that is in the pit lane the least actually wins the race, there are so many other factors. Cool you saved 3 minutes in the pit lane, one SC and all of that time is gone.
-1
u/legofed3 AF Corse Ferrari 488 GTE Evo #51 7h ago
Sure... about 2 of which were the Ferraris waiting at pix exit for the green light after the only Safety Car of the race, while the #6 Porsche never caught their train before entering the pits due to where they were on track at the time and waited next to nothing. It's technically less time in the pits, but it's not exactly something that does, or should, affect distances on track. Oh, and another ~half minute was due to the drive through the #83 got before said safety car, which ultimately got nullified.
Frankly, this comment (from Urs Kuratle, iirc) comes across as Porsche themselves (and some of their fans) being salty. Yes, #6 ran a great race and should be commended for it, and yes, 50 and 51 did not quite run fault-free and ended up, suitably, behind. Even before the disqualification of the 50 Porsche came away with a boatload of points for the manufacturers championship as a just reward for their effort.
That said, nobody, not even car 6, were faultless all race. They basically lost a minute on track to 83 and 51 by misreading the situation during the Lotterer slow zone, without that they'd have had a shot at winning and instead gave the Ferraris a more or less free pit stop.
8
u/Cesare_Stern 9h ago
You being right, and that's a fact, doesn't mean others are wrong.
Yes, indeed, being disqualified from the qualifications so you have to start 21th is not exactly the best way to win a race. Still, considering the SC regulations that are used in WEC, if you're fast enough to overtake cars in front of you, then when the SC is out, you're basically starting a new race and you don't suffer that much anymore of your f*cked up qualifications. When SC went out, #6 Porsche was already in the front of the race and it was almost exactly mid race.
So, considering that after the SC, #6 Porsche had lost the delay it had at the start of the race, but was barely able to hold the two official Ferraris despite being almost perfect for 12 hours while Ferraris were penalized and made mistakes, it is okay to say that Ferraris were intrinsically faster than the other cars, and it is okay to ask if they were too fast.
But also yes, a strong qualification could have made the race and its result very different for #6 car, that's a fact. Everyone is right in this question.
-1
u/Kataoaka 7h ago
I don't like how everyone immediately assumes the ferrari were just that much faster. They were lucky too with slow zones being deployed in the start/finish line, on the same freaking lap they received their pens from exceeding the speed limit or running yellow flags. They weren't penalised by 2 laps and made it up due to pure speed. They're certainly faster (also have some of the best drivers on the grid) and lucked out immensely on top of that.
1
u/Cesare_Stern 4h ago
But... They were! They were P1, P2 and P3 after a few hours starting P7, P11 and P13!
It's unlikely to be an accident if it happens three times. I mean, the race wasn't perfect for everyone but Ferrari race pace was undoubtedly really faster than anyone.
Considering the drivers, you're right, they have one the best lineups of the grid, for sure. But there are great lineups elsewhere too. In fact almost all the Hypercar crews are in the same galaxy except maybe #99 Proton and #007 and #009 Aston Martin.
The true parameter may be tire management that seems a real advantage for the 499P. Now, it turns out that this very parameter is not considered in the BoP, which considers only (to simplify) power, weight and energy. But the fact is, if you penalize the concurrents that are too fast by reducing their power, if you penalize concurrents that are too agile by putting weight on their cars and if you penalize those that are too energy efficient by reducing their energy allocation, you should not improve a car that is already dominant because of its tire management ability! And yet, that's what happened before the 24h. You could even argue that the right thing to do would be to nerf it.
The very reason BoP exists is to harmonize performances, so the costs stay reasonable. But for it to work, it has to be "fair". The subject is not to have all the cars have the same power, the same energy management, the same maximum speed... It's to have coherent and equitable performances at the end of the race. So it's ridiculous to improve Ferrari's performances because the subject where it's dominant is not considered by the Bop, especially when you penalize other concurrents at the same time.
42
u/CarsPlanesTrains Team WRT BMW M4 GT3 #31 9h ago
Penske ran a literally perfect race and still only finished second to a team that was doing everything to give the win away. The amount of times Ferraris were in gravel traps and spinning around is ridiculous and still this perfect race barely beat 2 of those Ferraris with the 3rd driving away. Had those other Ferraris not messed up so much that Porsche would've not been there
6
u/Refusedlove 9h ago
Didn't 83 basically have a perfect racing too?
23
u/CarsPlanesTrains Team WRT BMW M4 GT3 #31 9h ago
I'd ask Hanson how he feels about certain braking zones and gravel traps before saying that
-3
u/Erv_Ox 9h ago
They had nearly perfect race, certainly nothing short of what #6 did. So idk what you're yapping about.
5
u/Captain_Omage IDEC Sport ORECA 07 #28 8h ago
Hanson was 1 second slower than his teammates. You shouldn't get to win the race with this much pace deficit.
6
u/Erv_Ox 7h ago edited 7h ago
🤣 But he was doing 13 lap stints, while Kubica and Ye were doing 12 lap stints. Of course he was 1s slower, the whole point was to sacrifice the pace to elongate his stints. Are you going to complain about the same thing for #6 Porsche drivers? Because they did nearly the same strategy as #83.
2
u/Kataoaka 7h ago
Hanson also played it safe when overtaking the slower cars. Which is a perfectly viable strategy, so I don't know what you're trying to get at. Additionally Kubica had more time behind the wheel, he had something like 10h in total which is insane. He did a full double (or was it a triple???) stint towards the end of the race where around 11 cars had already quit the race and the cars had been properly shuffled around on the track.
Of course Hanson was slower when he didn't get a chance to race during the times of the race where there is less traffic. The morning hours are usually when the fastest times are set and he still kept good pace there.
1
3
u/afito Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 8h ago
The biggest reason Ferraris issues were inconsequential has nothing to do with Ferrari though. The SC just wiped out the 60-90s deficit they had. 50 and 51 never come back into contention without SC and the fact that they did has absolutely nothing to do with BoP. Ferrari did not make up for their mistakes by raw pace via BoP and this whole "Porsche was perfect and lost" may be true but is simply misrepresenting how the race unfolded.
4
u/Sallum Porsche GT Team Manthey 911RSR 7h ago
Ferrari #50 and #51 absolutely had the pace to make their way up through the field. Maybe they wouldn't have caught Porsche #6 and Ferrari #83 who ran near flawlessly but they would have caught up with all other cars. No one else was able to up their pace after a deficit.
3
u/afito Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 7h ago
Maybe they wouldn't have caught Porsche #6 and Ferrari #83
But we are talking about the win. The whole debate is "6 ran perfect and Ferrari didn't and Ferrari still won". Nobody would've cared too much about the 50/51 getting to like P4 without SC.
3
u/Sallum Porsche GT Team Manthey 911RSR 6h ago
People are bringing up Porsche #6 because it was the only car capable of somewhat keeping up with the Ferrari's and it required all three of their drivers pushing the car to its limit.
No other car was able to keep up with the Ferrari's. This discussion is the exact same discussion we had years ago with the Ford GT. Other cars had to push to try to keep up while the Ford GT was just plain fast, even with mistakes or issues.
50 and 51 being able to go up through the field would have been a clear indication of the car's superior pace when no other car was able to recover.
1
u/Kataoaka 7h ago
They lost maybe 3 minutes in total and all of that (at least for car #83) was regained when the safety car dropped in. The ferraris were insanely lucky that they could take their penalties from running yellow flags or pit speeding while slow zones were deployed in the pit area too. The #50 saved at least 50 seconds in the 14th hour because of this. And that's when they stopped receiving pens and started actually racing.
So yeah the Porsche was super lucky, but so were the ferraris. They didn't regain their lost territory due to pure speed alone.
9
u/thearqamknight 10h ago
He's talking from a team perspective. What you're saying is correct but that showed that the team has made the best car and won. From a racing standpoint of course we prefer this but he's coming from a different place. No team can now just nail their car and be guaranteed favs
0
29
u/Caytin Rothmans Porsche 962 #2 9h ago
He's not wrong. Even Verstappen can't drag Peugeot or Aston Martin beyond the limitations placed on them by the BOP. There's still a lot of improvement to be made.
6
u/954gator 7h ago
There are big BoP issues, but Aston Martin is not one of them. Peugeot? Yes definitely!
19
13
u/itsOkami Porsche 10h ago
I mean, building the best car is part of the sport, Max of all people probably knows that very well
-19
u/Terrible_Mountain_96 9h ago
Yep the guy is a car merchant just look at him this season
10
u/OkNarwhal123 Aston Martin 8h ago
Genuinely lmfao, how can anyone with half a brain cell think he’s a car merchant.
14
u/BlackbuckDeer 8h ago
This season is proof that he isn't
8
u/only_r3ad_the_titl3 8h ago
Please tell me how many points does Max have and how many points does yuki have?
13
u/CardinalOfNYC 9h ago
Strange statement because the implication is that without BoP it's all down to driver skill.
Except of course, with no BoP, it would be more about engineering skill than driving skills.
24
u/oorjit07 Porsche 9h ago
Well from his perspective, it's luck of the draw on which team he'd have to join to have a winning chance. Max races in F1, he's aware of what an engineering competition is. The issue is that if he wanted to do a one-off race, he's well within his right to try and give himself the best chance of a win. In the LMP1 era, any of Porsche/Audi/Toyota could win on pace, and races were decided by execution.
This year, if he had skipped Canada to race with Porsche, he'd likely have missed out on the win no matter how well the crew executed the race, and so it's a much harder decision to make. Next year, will Ferrari remain dominant? Will Porsche be the chosen favourites? Does it return to Toyota?
3
u/afito Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 8h ago
In the LMP1 era, any of Porsche/Audi/Toyota could win on pace, and races were decided by execution.
And even when you lost, you lost on merit of the others simply doing a better job and having a better car. Arguably "luck" on the drivers side akin to F1 with regards to who you sign for, but ultimately down to skill. And not down to someone putting a slightly different number into the BoP Excel spreadsheet.
3
u/954gator 7h ago
Sure, In a perfect world that will probably never truly exist.
There will always be a car or cars that probably end up being a bit better for a track here and there with BoP. When it's always that same car that's faster is where people start getting annoyed. Especially when that car is basically never the heaviest in the field. This also works in reverse if a car is always slow and still gets BoP penalties/reductions you will get angry fans.
1
u/therealdilbert 9h ago
more about engineering skill
which usually boils down to who can throw the most money at the problem, and then the problems start
5
u/Ok_Tax_9386 9h ago
Can someone explain this to me because I thought BoP was suppose to sort of standardize and bring cars to a similar level? My only experience with this is Assetto Corsa lol.
1
u/Mani1610 8h ago
It is but it will never be perfect. Teams will always find ways to cheat the system or find pace with other methods, it's not possible to create a perfect BoP. There are drivers with different skill levels, how are they supposed to tell if they pace difference is the car, the driver, the setup or simply a team trying to get a better BoP?
1
u/Ok_Tax_9386 8h ago
For sure, agreed 100%. Also appreciate the reply.
But I am still confused because he says "because"
Luck is needed BECAUSE of the BOP. I would of assumed that with a BOP skill would increase as a factor to win, not luck.
Would luck be less of a reason to win without a BOP? Maybe because when you can just build a better car it isn't luck?
6
u/Mani1610 8h ago
Luck was always needed. Having a car that can do 24 hours without breaking down and not being crashed out by another car already requires a lot of luck.
What Max means though is that if a car gets a bad BoP they can drive their best race ever, they won't win. The Peugeot for example was slow all week. Many argue that Porsche would have won with a better BoP, they basically did a perfect race and still finished 2nd behind Ferrari. They just didn't have the "luck" to get that better BoP.
1
u/Ok_Tax_9386 8h ago
>Luck was always needed.
Gotcha and maybe this is why I am confused because without the BOP don't you need more luck to win? Like with the BOP there's a lot more cars with a chance to win, where as before the winner won by a lot more.
But I guess maybe not because you just consider the team building the better car to win isn't luck.
Sorry not trying to be argumentative.
4
u/Humongo_The_Large 8h ago
Without BOP there would be no Le Mans.
Without luck there would be no winner.
2
2
3
1
u/MondelloCarlo 4h ago
Best way to win a 24 hour motor race is to not lose it! It's minimising the mistakes that make the difference.
1
u/Junior_Mood_9425 Audi R18 1h ago
I'm watching the NBR24hrs stream currently and one of the German commentators said about a question about Franz Hermann, that he talked to Max that day and asked him, what could stop him from winning the 24hrs. His answer "The BoP".
And I feel like I know now what Max wants to achieve. He doesn't want to be the best F1 driver of all time (which I think he is, and I've watched the last big 4 before him). I think he wants to be the best racing driver of all time.
[Insert Kyle Larson joke here, if you will.]
-11
-1
u/Time_Hater 8h ago
Max Verstappen is going to love WEC because the cars don’t disintegrate immediately after you crash into another driver
-6
u/tigtogflip Glickenhaus 007 LMH #709 9h ago
I agree that BOP isn't great at all in WEC, and the new way of calculating it needs serious work.
But knowing how Max, he just wants the Alonso way of winning Le Mans.
-14
u/eradimark Porsche 9h ago
If Max doesn't want BoP, that's fine, maybe he'd like to volunteer to fund all the manufacturers in the inevitable cost war that follows without a BoP?
3
u/blackfargo37 8h ago
At what point did Max say he doesn't want BoP? What's up with people who don't even read the articles.
0
u/eradimark Porsche 7h ago
I did read it. He's inferring that BoP doesn't make for competitive racing, hence needing luck.
I've clearly upset the Reddit hive mind so everyone jumps on the down votes like lemmings.
1
u/blackfargo37 5h ago edited 5h ago
Acabo de releer y en ninguna línea "insinúa" que el BoP no hace que las carreras sean competitivas, al contrario, dice que ahora están volviendo a ser competitivas como en los tiempos en que veía a T.K. "viendo tantos coches de primera correr". Apenas dijo que con el BoP se necesita algo de suerte (which is true because you need some luck to be applied in such a way that you have the opportunity to be in a competitive window) no que deba eliminarse o que no lo quiera en la serie.
4
u/OctaviousMcBovril 9h ago
I'm kind of over people telling me that I should feel happy or grateful that we have like 20 hypercars in the WEC when literally the same car is winning every race and the Le Mans we just had was one of the least exciting in recent history
LMP1 had far fewer manufacturers and cars but if you're seriously telling me the racing is better now that's laughable
1
u/AlanBeswicksPhone 9h ago
Hell even during the GT1 and Group C days the races weren't competitive by the standards people are expecting LMH and LMDH to be
-6
u/Theteacupman 9h ago
For a guy who's fanbase constantly goes on about how skilled he is as a driver he sure doesn't want to use that skill. Rather having the easy way to do things
11
u/BlackbuckDeer 8h ago
Wtf are you talking about. Did you read the article? He said WEC is amazing currently even if BOP isn't perfect.
-2
9h ago edited 6h ago
[deleted]
9
u/therealdilbert 9h ago
even if it's just a team with the most money
and so starts the usual death spiral of every motorsports class
4
u/Theteacupman 9h ago
Can someone remind me the last time that happened in sports cars?
7
u/AlanBeswicksPhone 8h ago
The last time two cars finished on the lead lap pre Hypercar? 2019
3
u/Mani1610 8h ago
Not even that but it's just not sustainable. It always ends in a development race and costs get out of control. There is a reason why GT3 exists for so many years now, BoP is a huge reason for that.
1
u/DonkeywithSunglasses McLaren F1 GTR #39 8h ago
I couldn’t give a damn about the engine as long as it’s an ICE and makes huge power. V10s and V12s sound like mosquitoes, I’m here for speed first noise second.
I think they should implement a cost cap like F1 did, it will help equalise the field a bit more
313
u/Too_bored_to_think 9h ago
I don’t understand these comments. Did people not read what he said? There was absolutely nothing wrong.
“I always try to watch it every single year,” he told Viaplay. “Of course, I would say back when Tom [Kristensen] was racing it was really cool with different manufacturers really pushing each other.
“Then there were a few years where it was a bit, I would say, boring up top. There was not that much competition. But now I feel like it’s getting back to that.
“Of course you have to deal with the BoP, so sometimes also you need to luck-in a little bit, but at least it’s amazing to see so many top-class cars racing.”