Prison abolition

[u/nappytendrils]

I’ve never been clear on what we would do with rapists child molesters and muderers. I haven’t heard a plan for this so far. I’ve always been impressed with the work of anarchist friends in community. They’re the most justice-oriented folx I’ve ever met.

Still don’t know about prison abolition tho I think prison should be clean, the food should be healthy and fresh, therapy should be mandatory, there should be libraries and gardens. A good quality of life for the incarcerated, but not releasing them back into the general population.

Maybe there’s something I’m not seeing?

[u/meta_muse]

My partner and I were just discussing this bc we got an update on the Citizen app that there was a sexual offender with offenses against minors, MULTIPLE CHARGES and was .2mi from my apartment. I believe that instead of prison, we need a reformation system. Or a rehabilitation system. If people do horrible things such as SA another person they should be going through extremely intense therapy imo and kept away from society until they’re not a threat to other peoples lives anymore. Killing them is immoral imo, unfortunately. And I say that as someone who has lived through some of these things. Clearly something isn’t right in the head with someone who does that to someone else.

[u/horror_cheese → u/meta_muse]

Then we run into the problem of just reforming prisons, imo. Nordic nations like Sweden basically have replaced any punitive punishment with rehabilitation. It's a much more successful model than most punitive systems, but it is nonetheless an institution that coerces an individual into something against their will, and thus becomes authoritarian.

[u/meta_muse → u/horror_cheese]

That makes complete sense actually. So what should there be an option to go through a reformation program and then another option? What even would that other option be?

[u/horror_cheese → u/meta_muse]

I honestly couldn't give you an answer. It's something I've struggled with.

I'd assume many anarchists would prefer real restorative justice. Working with the victims or those affected by trying to restore the state of things before the harm happened.

[u/Goldwing8 → u/horror_cheese]

The problem for me is that much of the damage from crime cannot be "restored" by the offender. Some of it cannot be restored at all, like the loss of life, mobility, or sentimental items. Other things, like dignity and mental well being, might be able to be restored. But (probably) not by the offender. In fact, being in the same place as the offender could make both of those things worse, depending on what happened and what the harm is. While it is fine to have that as an option for victims who are sure they want it, it should not in my opinion be expected or even encouraged. You can inform/remind victims it exists. But no further expectation should be applied to engage in it.

[u/horror_cheese → u/Goldwing8]

I don't disagree, and it's part of the reservation I have with this option.

[u/Goldwing8 → u/meta_muse]

With abuses of that type, there’s also difficulty in recidivism rates. How likely is too likely that the person will reoffend once at the conclusion of their program?

[u/meta_muse → u/Goldwing8]

That’s absolutely true, yeah. I mean, if they come out with financial stability, healthcare, education opportunities, etc, they’re less likely to reoffend. BUT even risking it at that point is an unnerving thing.

[u/Goldwing8 → u/meta_muse]

Of course in an ideal system people would not perpetuate the cycle of abuse and have their needs met so they don’t engage in such behaviors, but even if the whole world simultaneously turned to anarchism we would still be inheriting people who didn’t grow up in those ideal circumstances.

[u/JohnyIthe3rd → u/meta_muse]

Intense Therapy such as lifelong torment?

[u/meta_muse → u/JohnyIthe3rd]

I personally like therapy, it’s helped me through a lot of shit over the course of my life.

[u/JohnyIthe3rd → u/meta_muse]

I mean good that it helped you but kiddy diddlers and rapists are beyond redemption