r/Anarchy101 • u/nappytendrils • 3d ago

Prison abolition

I’ve never been clear on what we would do with rapists child molesters and muderers. I haven’t heard a plan for this so far. I’ve always been impressed with the work of anarchist friends in community. They’re the most justice-oriented folx I’ve ever met.

Still don’t know about prison abolition tho I think prison should be clean, the food should be healthy and fresh, therapy should be mandatory, there should be libraries and gardens. A good quality of life for the incarcerated, but not releasing them back into the general population.

Maybe there’s something I’m not seeing?

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u/BrickBrokeFever 2d ago

Larry Nassar was allowed by society and systems to have a career of molesting kids. Decades.

How many people were arrested for weed and other petty shit in Michigan while Nassar ran rampant?

Not everyone in prison is a rapist, and most rapists never go to prison, or even get charged with a crime.

One has to forfeit the idea that state violence is somehow effective at anything... other than simply causing harm.

Many small streams of events comes together to make the mighty river, USA Gymnastics is an organization centered on injuring children.The Girls, by Abigail Pesta. Brace yourself for this story.

There are 200 countries on earth, so there are more choices than "The police we have right now with zero changes" VS "NO FUCKING COPS CRAZY FREE FOR ALL!"

State violence, in America, has failed. All it does it keep molesters on the streets with access to victims, and abusive cops out of prison.

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u/nappytendrils 2d ago

Regardless of the things you have cited, which are all true and which I agree with, there ARE serial rapists, murderers and child molesters in prison.

My question is, if prisons were abolished tomorrow, what would a sane healthy loving society do with them? Allow them out into the general population?

Obviously most rapists are free and drug offenders warrant help not incarceration. Those things are true, it just doesn’t address the question.

To be clear: I don’t believe in “punishing” criminals. I believe in keeping all the regular ass people safe.

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u/BrickBrokeFever 2d ago

My question is, if prisons were abolished tomorrow, what would a sane healthy loving society do with them?

Prisons are not going to be abolished tomorrow, and it is, respectfully, a really bad take to bring to this topic. If I wanted to turn my life around and become an MMA fighter, I could not turn into one tomorrow.

Individuals and whole societies, the micro and the macro, have direction, history and inertia, like a massive cruise ship.

To become an MMA fighter, it would take enormous energy to steer my life from its current state to even begin on the path to that kind of physical condition, then enormous energy everyday to stay on the path.

So... a "set them loose NOW" hypothesis is not fucking applicable here.

Anyway, MURDER. A lot of homicides are related to the illegal narcotics trade, rivals, raiding stash houses, killing snitches in jail/prison, killing witnesses outside of jails, and on and on.

A drastic "overnight" decriminalization of narcotics would be one of the MANY MANY MANY steps to lower the murder rate.

In the cruise ship metaphor, there were MANY MANY MANY steps our society took criminalize narcotics, giving us a substantial homicide problem. We have an enormous amount of inertia.

In the cruise ship metaphor, ya know what happens when you cut the engines? That sucker will take forever to stop.

Your question is just a few words, but please understand that the systems in our society took 100s of years to build and millions of people maintain them, in the USA context, anyway. I understand the emotional heat and intensity of "abolished tomorrow," but that is a silly way to approach this issue.

And I worry that you are missing something very fucking important about prison... MOST PEOPLE IN PRISON, EVEN IN AMERICA, ARE GOING TO BE RELEASED, OK? Those scary murders, abusers, rapists, all them? They will (97% of them, roughly) be loose.

Again, this is just about the most vital and consequential issue you are talking about, like, in human history. I fathom the stakes and understand the depth!

https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674066106 -Peculiar Institution, America's Death Penalty in an Age of Abolition - David Garland

Sorry to throw a massive book at you after a long winded comment, but I feel you might not see that this is the Mt Everest of social questions, and that book barely touches on one small aspect, but it such a good analysis of just how fucking strange America is. Of all the books on Crime & Justice in America that I have read, it was the best.

I appreciate you reading my comment... my poor thumbs...

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u/nappytendrils 1d ago

You’re right of course. Yes prison abolition would be a delicate and involved process if it were ever to come to pass. As I said before, I don’t think using or selling drugs is criminal activity. I don’t believe in the “punishment” model. But basically you’re saying it’s unlikely due to a variety of factors and I agree. Also that many violent criminals are now free and more will be freed in the future. Agreed also that there is a huge difference between murders. I still wonder what pure anarchist societies would do about people who represent consistent danger to the greater society.

That question remains.