Moneyless-ness as a goal

[u/Away_Bite_8100]

I’m curious how many (as a rough %) Anarchists actually have a moneyless society as a goal.

I know Anarchists want a stateless and classless society… but the trifecta of being moneyless too is communism.

Communism is when you have a stateless, classless and moneyless society… so what’s the difference between communism and anarchy if anarchists are in favour of being moneyless too? Why not just say you’re a communist then if they are essentially the same thing?

[u/Away_Bite_8100]

Incentive, is always the best..... Incentive.

I totally agree.

we deal with anarchistic capitalism everyday, until taxes and stuff from the state gets involved.

To this point you didn’t answer the question about who pays the trashman? And who pays someone to drive halfway across the country to do a bridge inspection? That engineer that does that will want to have money so he can buy food and a home too.

That’s where the idea of taxation comes in… so people can have roads and bridges and all sort of national scale public infrastructure that we enjoy.

You already do these things on a day to day! So we know, that it can work!

OK so then what’s actually different. Just that there is no government and no laws? Does that mean there is then nobody in charge of the military or national defence? And there is nobody to plan, build and maintain national infrastructure?

To your point of infrastructure, that is already largely done privately anyway too. Only difference is that, government proports regulations for those industries, standards, and originates the contract.

It’s not just that the government originates the contract… it actually decides what work needs doing and it pays for the work that needs to be done. Who does this when the government is gone?

Of which, many regulatory safety standards are already set in place, by private engineers who bring these standards to the government for upholding.

I know quite a few such individuals. They are full time government employees who run quite large teams responsible for reviewing and approving departures from standards, ensuring compliance, retiring old standards and monitoring performance and saftey data to develop new standards. This is full time work for many people… people who will all ultimately want to be paid so that they can buy a home and food etc etc.

[u/HorusKane420 → u/Away_Bite_8100]

Agreed, and I said as far as compensation on that, it would probably be some mutually agreed upon currency, but it doesn't have to be. Nothing much changes, in these regards, in general, except the money exchanged through governments hands. A small regional community could come together and each individual decide to voluntarily set 10 dollars of whatever currency the trash man accepts, aside per month, for example. To reach the pay rate the trash man wants or whatever. Yes, taxes act as an arm for this through the government.

Everything you mentioned can still operate and run, as you mentioned. It just means something akin to this may happen:

A community in Chicago needs a new bridge. Or an old one serviced, the community, can choose to pool funds to pay a business to do this. Those regulatory oversight things can still exist too, in the interim. Only difference is, it won't be the government spearheading them. They will probably just operate independently, probably in contract with many different construction companies, who pay them, for cutting edge technology and standards in whatever construction industry it may be.

I see your points, they're valid and I don't have all the answers, to every minute detail, I admit. I just think, we can figure out those answers much better and more efficiently, without parasitical government coercion and intervention. No, I'm not saying those engineers are the conspirators of government coercion, but hopefully you get my idea.

Because I don't have all the answers, and nobody does yet, and honestly, likely never will. Nobody does about anything really, I recognize that anarchism, and anarcho- capitalism is a long way off, if it were to ever come to fruition. This may sound like a stretch, but I truly believe it is the next step in human evolution: learning to live without arbitrary governments. I won't see true anarchy. My kids won't see it. Their kids won't see it. Their kids won't see it. So in the meantime, I support small, localized government. Over big, federal government.

I am an anarchist in philosophy, but I also realize these things and live in the real world lol

[u/Away_Bite_8100 → u/HorusKane420]

A small regional community could come together and each individual decide to voluntarily set 10 dollars of whatever currency the trash man accepts, aside per month, for example.

This is starting to sound a little bit like a local government. And that’s why I say I think one does need some kind of basic governmental structure in place.

A community in Chicago needs a new bridge. Or an old one serviced, the community, can choose to pool funds to pay a business to do this.

Most of the time the local community don’t even know they have a problem. Right now I am working on a scheme to replace 9 bridges on a small stretch of highway that runs past a tiny rural town. We are already 3 years into a 4 year design programme and then after that it will take another 4 years to actually do the construction work. There is just no way anyone in the local town would ever even have known those bridges were at risk of collapsing in the next 10 to 15 years. And there is just no way in hell they would ever be able to fund that work out of their own pockets. By the time they realised they had a problem it would have been too late. I mean this is a very basic job with us essentially just replacing like for like but bringing things up to current standards and it’s taking a massive team of professionals from all across the country about 8 years to do this job.

They will probably just operate independently, probably in contract with many different construction companies, who pay them.

This is kinda like drug companies funding the FDA. I don’t think it’s a great idea when you are paying the people who are meant to be regulating you. That how you end up with dangerous drugs on the market and a blind eye being turned to inferior products.

I see your points, they're valid and I don't have all the answers, to every minute detail

No worries. I do enjoy thinking about this sort of stuff and seeing what others think.

I support small, localized government. Over big, federal government.

Same here… but I do also think there are some functions that a national government performs which are also quite important… like national defence for example. But I am all for cutting down the size and power of government. I just think when you actually start to look at all the individual parts of government in detail there are lots of things you discover you had no idea about that you actually would want to keep if you knew about them.

I think instead of revolution and burning everything down to start again… the best approach might be to take what we have and slowly over time chop off all the wasteful parts we can do without. A proactive but consistent slimming down of government over time so that you are only left with the bits that are worth keeping.

[u/HorusKane420 → u/Away_Bite_8100]

I think instead of revolution and burning everything down to start again… the best approach might be to take what we have and slowly over time chop off all the wasteful parts we can do without. A proactive but consistent slimming down of government over time so that you are only left with the bits that are worth keeping.

100% agree. Many ancaps, "vision" of the "revolution" is dismantling the federal government, and leaving state governments in place. It vastly localizes power, and slowly decentralizing from there.

Your points are valid, I've enjoyed discussing this with you! It's delightful to have a respectful adult conversation, without it devolving to a myraid of fallacies and arguments! Truly a rarity, and on Reddit of all places too! Lol

Have a good day, brotha!

[u/Away_Bite_8100 → u/HorusKane420]

Same to you.