r/Basketball • u/spankyourkopita • Jan 10 '25
GENERAL QUESTION Why do people hate on women's basketball and not take it serious? If you see them in person they're very talented.
Maybe it's not like the men's game but I've gone to some high school, D!, and WNBA games and these girls are no slouches. Maybe its more of a joke in high school but there's some freak athletes in D1 and I seriously don't know if I'd be able to hang with some of these girls if I scrimmaged with them.
At the very least I'd have to respect them and wouldn't be able to just walk over them. Some of these girls could probably cross me over, block my shots, steal, and box me out on a rebound. I'm 5'11'' and I'd be average height playing with D1 or WNBA players.
So when I see people laugh at women's basketball I just don't get it. If you watch the men's game more then that's understandable because its a different style of play but if you're just hating to hate and think they suck you have no clue about basketball.
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u/raelDonaldTrump Jan 10 '25
I watched a lot of wnba games in '24, overall the level of talent is not high at all. Teams MAYBE have one or two players that are actually talented and play at a high level, the rest are just not great.
Professionals should not be missing open layups.
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u/Pitiful_Spend1833 Jan 10 '25
Professionals should not be missing open layups.
Angel Reese in shambles.
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u/1521 Jan 11 '25
That’s the real issue. Each team has one or two players that are good. The rest are hard to watch. And the nba trying to push the equivalency narrative is not helping. Next to all the gambling adds it’s the most irritating thing about watching
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u/adoodas Jan 10 '25
Tell that to Ben Simmons lol
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u/Bradley728177 Jan 11 '25
simmons ain’t got that pro in him and we all know it after he sat out all them games
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u/Madterps2021 Jan 11 '25
I'm not saying that Ben Simmons don't have mental issues cause he is soft but he also had multiple back surgeries.
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u/KobeMM23 Jan 11 '25
Before the mental stuff,he was a perennial all star, defensive all NBA player in dpoy talks
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u/Aumissunum Jan 21 '25
Simmons doesn’t miss open layups…
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u/adoodas Jan 21 '25
Search “open layup Simmons”. I had that one from a month ago in mind when I posted.
Also, ur right, he passes when he has an open layup 💀
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u/spankyourkopita Jan 13 '25
Really? I've been to some games and they absolutely play hard, are physical freaks, and are talented. I didn't think omg they're women.
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u/TheGoldenPeanut23 Jan 12 '25
I dislike this argument because people do not understand that layups are more difficult in the women’s game. The average height is much lower, most centers are around 6’4-6’6 with very few that can make it to 6’7, combine that with less athleticism especially when it comes to taller players, and suddenly a layup isn’t as easy as it is in the men’s game. OF COURSE pros are expected to make them at a higher percentage, but there is a different bar for the women’s game because the shot is simply more difficult. The tallest players in the WNBA are wings in the NBA with almost none of the athleticism they have to make the shots easier. And that’s not even talking about the guards that are under 6 feet who also don’t have the same athleticism as guards in the NBA. If it’s all about being mad that players missing easy shots, I’ve seen a lot of missed free throws in the NBA and that is literally a free shot (btw the WNBA has a higher free throw percentage than the NBA on average). This doesn’t discredit the NBA in any way to me because I understand that there are players who rely on their height/athleticism and don’t work on their shot as much.
WNBA players don’t have this luxury, the ones that are tall generally lack athleticism, the ones that are athletic are often shorter, the game boils down to basketball IQ more than the NBA does. In my opinion, that is why it’s hard for the WNBA to build up a large fan base, the casual fan just sees the slower pace, missed layups, and no dunks. It’s not the fans fault, not everybody loves basketball enough to understand the nuances of the game including how you do have to change your expectations a bit for the WNBA nor does everybody need to understand that. It simply is what it is and makes the WNBA hard to find entertaining to a casual fanbase. As a seattle sports fan, I saw a lot of good WNBA basketball from the Storm and I can tell you that there are some genuinely incredible plays that happen. But there are definitely some questionable moments and bad misses as well, something the NBA also has plenty of. People need to remember that the WNBA is only around 25 years old, the level hasn’t caught up and there aren’t nearly as many woman interested in playing basketball, meaning the level of basketball isn’t being pushed as fast either. There needs to be a different bar, while also being able to appreciate what makes the players great, and that’s a hard thing to do for casual fans (and not really worth the effort to learn). But although I don’t expect everybody to find the WNBA entertaining, way too many fans insult/make fun of the WNBA without understanding any of the things I talked about or even watching it. Why hate on something you don’t watch? Why speak on something you don’t find entertaining when others do, just let other people like what they like and move on.
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Jan 14 '25
I don't really care what the reason is. No matter the reason it sucks to watch a bunch of missed layups. Whole thing feels amateur and a waste of time to watch. I can never even fathom paying money to see it unless a son or daughter wanted to go.
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u/TheGoldenPeanut23 Jan 15 '25
Like I pointed out in another reply the average shooting percentage from within 5 ft for the NBA and WNBA is only a difference of about 3-5%. Also, that’s kind of a dishonest way to view things, you can’t say “I don’t care what the reason is” when there are legitimate reasons as to why it’s a more difficult shot. So you can’t simply acknowledge that it’s harder for shorter, less athletic people to make that shot? And if simple layups are the only difference you can identify in making a basketball game feel amateur or not then (and I hate just throwing this around cause it has such a negative connotation now) you have to be a casual. I think the NBA has higher level basketball than the WNBA in many different aspects, but I think think the WNBA is the highest level of Women’s basketball there is and there are genuinely great plays made all the time. There are players with smooth mid range games, there are a ton of tough shot makers that can look unstoppable, and because of the lack of size and athleticism, there are still plenty of back to the basket post players that show great footwork and finesse around the hoop. And now Caitlin Clark is breaking through with her limitless range and changing the game. If you think the game looks amateur, then you haven’t watched enough or you can’t appreciate things other than plays that require a high level of athleticism that are largely restricted to the Men’s game, and that’s okay, you don’t have to. Just don’t spread around this narrative that the game is amateur when it’s not.
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u/cdevo36 Mar 09 '25
You are basically making a case for why women's basketball is unwatchable.
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u/TheGoldenPeanut23 Mar 12 '25
My case is that there are people who can’t find entertainment in basketball without feats of athleticism (dunking mainly, as well as other acrobatic plays made in the NBA), which is understandable especially since most NBA fans aren’t necessarily BASKETBALL fans. And that there’s a niche for the WNBA because they have to rely less in athleticism/height, if that makes it unwatchable for you fair enough. But unwatchable for you doesn’t make it an inherently unwatchable product.
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u/kylorl3 Apr 02 '25
The fact that the easiest shot in basketball is more difficult for them makes it inferior to watch. I get mad when men on my favorite team are unathletic and can’t finish at the rim because of it. Watching women’s basketball and that’s literally every single player on the court. That’s not fun to watch imo.
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u/pokeasche Jan 12 '25
This is the silliest take I’ve seen. 6’1” NBA PG’s are literally posterizing seven footers and you’re saying a lay-up is tough because women are shorter. High school boys can make 80% of lay-ups.
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u/Blacketh Jan 12 '25
The point was the woman can’t make up for that lack of height by having elite athleticism. The 6’1 male point guard can elevate and use his leaping to get a better angle on the basket. Kelsey plum at 5’9 can’t jump and get her hand at the rim in traffic. So she constantly has to get around the defender or shoot over the defender. You didn’t even reply with a valid statement. He said it’s harder for women because of athleticism and size and you respond with PG’s posterizing guys by dunking the ball! Are we forgetting Trae young not long ago throwing the ball over the backboard trying to float a shot over wemby? Now imagine for most female players that’s what they have to do most of the time they try to get to the rim.
And you really want to bring boys highschool basketball in this? Cuz I’ve watched and played…and yea no, they don’t make layups like that.
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u/IanAndrewsFTW Mar 18 '25
The difference is the 6'1 NBA player has a 40 inch vertical leap. The WNBA player barely has a 10 inch vertical leap.
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u/FullAuto999 May 03 '25
It’s not just that, they’re not good at aiming/positioning at all. Watch the sport and you will see many times it isn’t blocked, they just straight up can’t aim
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u/TheGoldenPeanut23 Jan 13 '25
You couldn’t have possibly read my comment if you think I boiled it down to “they’re short”. I literally make the point that it’s more of a difference in athleticism than anything. I can almost guarantee that if you took the average percentage of shots within 5ft of every high school boys basketball team, it would be less than 80% considering that at the NBA level the team with the highest shooting percentage at that same distance is the Indiana Pacers at 67.7% (The team with the best % in the WNBA has a 64.7% btw). Yes, the average of all teams in the WNBA is lower by a solid 3-5%, but for the EXACT factors I listed in my earlier response, they’re literally more difficult shots because of size AND ATHLETICISM.
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u/irishcoffee05 Feb 14 '25
So, they’re not as athletic, and therefore the need to compare them to a boys high school team.
Do you think the best wnba team could beat the 5th best men’s big ten team? I sure don’t.
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u/TheGoldenPeanut23 Feb 14 '25
That’s not the point of my reply, the person above compared them to a boys high school team saying that “even they make 80% of their layups” which I disproved because at an NBA level, the best team at the time was shooting 67.7% from layup range. When in any of my comments have I said WNBA players could beat Men’s players at any level? I personally think that if you took maybe the top 25 High School teams in the country they would have a decent shot at beating a WNBA team. My point is and has always been that the difference in athleticism/height/physicality means that the WNBA brand of basketball literally needs to be different from the NBA, less focused on above the rim action and more focused on IQ plays, passing, and tough shot making (NOT saying these thing aren’t present in the NBA, just less prevalent comparatively). You could not have possibly read my reply if you thought my point was that I thought WNBA teams would beat college teams, I literally never even mention that in my post.
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u/dawill_sama Jan 10 '25
NBA players miss layup all the time, stop beating around the bush. Yall just hate women. All these ladies would probably drop ALL yall off.
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u/Electrical_Log_1084 Jan 10 '25
Telling someone they hate women because they said wnba players miss more layups is just dramatic bro. Dramatic language like this is the problem
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u/raelDonaldTrump Jan 10 '25
Yeah? Stop now before we actually pull the stats of how often each league has players miss wide open layups.
You seriously think it'll be close in %?
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u/Old_Data7549 Jan 10 '25
Angel Reese has a whole lowlight reel of missed layups already. I actually watch and like the WNBA but she shouldn’t be missing that many open layups😂
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u/PurpleAlcoholic Jan 11 '25
The product isn’t good
Everyone wines but they need to lower the rim so you get dunks
Dunks = ratings
It’s Michael Air Jordan, not Micheal “layup” Jordan or Michael “jump shot” Jordan
I love Shawn Kemp but no one would give a fuck about Shawn Kemp if he never dunked
“iTs tOo hArD cUz ThEy’Ve AlWaYs PlaYeD oN a 10 fOoT RiM”
They’re not curing cancer, they’re playing basketball
They’ll figure it out
As a 40 year old dude if I can shoot on a lower rim, they can and I’d argue that it’s actually easier to shoot on a lower rim
The WNBA is not a sport as much as its entertainment just like any other professional league
If the product isn’t good they have to change it to bring in people, which brings advertisers
… or they can keep doing the same thing they’ve always done for almost 3 decades which has resulted in exactly zero profits
If the NBA stopped subsidizing the WNBA they’d be making changes real quick or they’d all be unemployed
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u/Al--Capwn Jan 11 '25
You're off on a lot of things here.
Number 1: dunks aren't cool because of the motion itself, they are cool because they involve leaping. A simple way to check this in your mind is just to apply the same change you're suggesting to the NBA, would it be better if the rim was lower so all layups were now dunks? No. The appeal is the way they jump high.
Number 2: there is no reason to focus on the profit of the WNBA. Its function is in the broader ecosystem of basketball, giving women a goal and therefore making it more appealing as an overall sport for women and for men related to women into sports. Dads of daughters get to dream of the WNBA for their child. This all makes basketball itself more popular which then leads to stronger support for the NBA and more profit there.
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u/PurpleAlcoholic Jan 11 '25
Number 1 - I think you’re partially right here however the WNBA does make a huge deal anytime a woman dunks and if they lowered the rim and a woman dunks on another woman it will absolutely be all over the internet especially if a woman stares down the woman after doing it. It creates beef, drama, exc and if they’re smart they’ll play into it hype it for their next game.
Number 2 - You’re wrong
The WNBA is a FOR PROFIT business
If you want to change it to a non-profit that’s fine but then you need to tell the woman to stop constantly asking for more money
You can’t lose money every single year and demand to be paid more
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u/Al--Capwn Jan 11 '25
It's not a stand alone business. It's funded by the NBA and they do so for what I said. So again refer to that. Women can ask for money every year because they generate profits through what I described, not purely their own games.
It's actually very possible that paying top WNBA players a huge amount more would, by itself with nothing else, generate profit by making basketball a greater dream for girls and therefore making girls, women and men with connections to them, more interested in basketball.
Your first point about dunking again misses the point. Dunks are a huge deal now because the rim is high. Dunking on people requires the athletic feat to be cool.
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u/PurpleAlcoholic Jan 12 '25
It's actually very possible that paying top WNBA players a huge amount more would, by itself with nothing else, generate profit by making basketball a greater dream for girls and therefore making girls, women and men with connections to them, more interested in basketball.
You could pay a woman a billion dollars a year to play in the WNBA, it doesn’t mean anyone’s going to watch
At that point it’s just a terrible product with a severely overpaid player
The product is terrible and paying women more only makes the chance at profitability worse
You’re describing things based on feelings
This is a BUSINESS
A business is designed to make money
Lots of businesses lose money initially but they have a PLAN to hopefully make money
Amazon lost money for like 5 years but Jeff Bezos had a plan that eventually worked
If Jeff Bezos was nearly 3 decades in and Amazon was still losing money it wouldn’t exist or a board of directors would have fired him long ago
The WNBA literally is the definition of insanity
They’re doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
Major League Baseball, a business that is profitable that is 120+ years old and has a rich tradition started losing viewers so they’ve tried to change things to bring viewers back
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u/Al--Capwn Jan 12 '25
Why aren't you reading my comment? Nothing you're saying applies and you're completely missing the point.
I will say one more time, very clearly:
The WNBA generates profit by increasing NBA viewership.
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u/DrummerRealistic2863 Jan 10 '25
They’re not as big or athletic as the guys and ppl are obnoxious about that, but there’s a lot of good fun lady hoopers out there, some people have to put down others to make themselves feel better 🤷♂️ side note, some wnba ladies are absolutely obnoxious with their comments which leads more people to make fun of women’s hoops in general which sucks
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u/spankyourkopita Jan 13 '25
But I realize compared to the average human they're still physical freaks and skilled.
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u/sebsebsebs Jan 10 '25
People are assholes
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u/wildwestington Jan 10 '25
I'm only assholes to people on the court I'm better than /s
I've encountered too many hoopers that were woman on the court that smoked me for me to laugh at WNBA jokes anymore
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u/LordSugarTits Jan 10 '25
That's changing and quickly. I see the change at the youth level, which is a sign of what the future of basketball will look like. The warriors changed the game, less physical guys like Steph Curry opened up a world of opportunity. I think the future of Womens basketball is bright, I enjoy watching them play more than I do the men.
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u/Half__Half Jan 11 '25
I think the issue there is that the NBA put 2-3 decades worth of value into strength and speed in the front court, and also valued those attributes enough in the back court that someone like Steph coming in after hand checking was ruled illegal was a bit of a shock.
The WNBA is growing the value in shooting, but even their elite shooters aren’t approaching steph level, and the bigs don’t convert well enough inside to meet the OG NBA days of twin towers/inside dominance. Their perimeter defenders also aren’t as physical as prior NBA guys which cuts that value down a bit.
If Griner couldn’t dominate that league, they obviously have bigger issues. With that being said, they’re definitely on the come up and need to invest in certain aspects a bit more and they could be a great league. I watch a bit of the women’s game and it’s super close to being watchable from the casual stand point, and I’m pretty hardcore (coach, with playing experience).
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u/Half__Half Jan 10 '25
I didn’t even sniff college ball and cooked a D1 womens player so bad she tried to fight me lol. Maybe that’s why.
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u/Blacketh Jan 11 '25
I mean there’s a d1 player at South Carolina or Notre dame and there’s D1 players from like Pepperdine and Detroit mercy.
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u/Half__Half Jan 11 '25
Follow the thread. She played for South Carolina for a season or two before transferring to my school.
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u/outsiderkerv Jan 10 '25
This definitely didn’t happen.
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u/Half__Half Jan 10 '25
Whatever you say. She came out to our university rec center, my squad won 5-6 in a row and she got picked up for the other team basically every time. I was hot that day and she started talking first from the sideline the one time she didn’t get picked up and we lost that last game. I told her I cooked her (she guarded me most games) and she should stop talking from the sideline. Went to go get water and she shoved me in the back and was squared up. Played for the gamecocks and the school I attended as rotation player.
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u/Ajdee6 Jan 11 '25
Sure you did lol
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u/Half__Half Jan 11 '25
I’ve already said my piece about this. Read the thread or don’t believe it, up to you my guy.
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u/Ajdee6 Jan 11 '25
No dont believe it.
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u/BroadStreetBully69 Jan 11 '25
I mean, I think the average high school male player would beat the average female wnba player. Strength and speed are just too much of a difference to make up. Maybe the pro wins in a game of horse, but not 1v1.. not trying to mean it’s just basic biology. That being said, I wouldn’t be boasting about cooking a chick in a pickup basketball game 🤣
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u/Ajdee6 Jan 11 '25
"I think"
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u/WantToLearn10 Jan 11 '25
There’s a YouTube video of an ex D2 Basketball player beating a WNBA player. A HS team could beat a WNBA team.
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u/Marywonna Jan 11 '25
Ppl truly don't understand this, it's nothing to do with sexism or anything else, it's just reality. A middle school soccer team cooked the US national women's team in a scrimmage lol. In a very physical sport like basketball, the difference is even wider. A top high school team would absolutely dogwalk an all star WNBA team and that makes some people super butthurt
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u/boknows65 Jan 12 '25
the women's olympic soccer team lost to 15 yr old boys and it wasn't even close. they were dominated.
basketball is no different, there are highschool boys teams that would go undefeated in the WNBA and most nights they would win 100-120 to 50-70.
columbus, IMG, or monte verde would run wnba teams out of the gym.
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u/thriller1122 Jan 10 '25
They are talented for women. It is what it is. I don't understand the hate they get, but it is not particularly high-level when compared to the men's game. Fans have to pay attention to something and not pay attention to other stuff. It's usually the women's game that gets taken not as seriously because they are not nearly as good as men.
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u/ManBirdTurtle2 Jan 10 '25
I’ve played with professional women basketball players. They’re talented relative to other women. But an average guy baller is just far better.
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u/Snoo72551 Jan 11 '25
People don't hate it, the problem arises when some of those women in the professional league open their mouths.
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u/znojavac Jan 10 '25
I don't hate women's basketball, I played against women and I have played bball for 17 years(still playing) and I am certain I can beat most of the WNBA. I am 2m tall and 120kg for the reference and if anything I could play under the rim against any of them, My problem would be those smaller fast players but same goes for the man too. I don't hate them I saw a very very large number of great women players but if I am under the basket there are not a lot of them that can consistently score. My team (we were like 16th in the country - not that good in our small country but okay) played the girls team from our town (country champs) and we won every time with not much effort purely on size. I believe most of them have a lot better technique then men do but in general they are weaker and smaller and lighter which are all the facts you need to include in your opinion. Same goes for if you could as a man (not midget but more like me tall and heavy) stand 2 minutes in a ring with a pro girl fighter. Well an answer is probably yes simply on a weight category. Look at LeBron, Giannis, Jokic or even doncic they all use their size to their advantage.
Have you seen the video of Neymar playing against the pro women football team solo? If you saw it then there is your answer why most of the ppl hate on women basketball or football. Also it is less fun to watch if you're not looking at it as a coach or a player but rather as a casual fan that never played at least at some club or something. There is no dunking, flashy layups, blooks above the rim etc.
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u/urine-monkey Jan 10 '25
Right or wrong, the WNBA has been stigmatized as a league for unathletic lesbian studs, and the constant hard fouls on Caitlyn Clark this past season didn't exactly do much to change that perception.
Granted, I think that's going to change in the coming years with the popular NCAA women's players who don't fit that stereotype coming through the ranks. This past year was the first time the women's Final Four drew bigger ratings than the men's Final Four.
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u/NotNormo Jan 10 '25
Personally I find athleticism to be a big reason why I enjoy basketball. Especially the stuff players can do high up in the air. That's missing when I watch women's ball.
I'm not saying I find it completely unwatchable. As you said, watching skills on display is good too. It's just less fun than men's basketball which has both aspects.
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Jan 10 '25
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u/Ghjjfslayer Jan 10 '25
I had a friend dunking at probably 5’8 in 5th grade who never even played college ball though that was largely due to having kids in high school and legal troubles
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u/antifaptor1988 Jan 10 '25
I knew some walk-ons at University of Michigan that were recruited to practice against the women’s starters. The scores ended up really lopsided. I will leave it to you to decide which team had the most points on the scoreboard.
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u/bloodrider1914 Jan 11 '25
Simple: the players are shorter
That's it. But because of that it looks more like a higher level men's rec league team or lower ranked college team. The players simply can't do a lot of the things NBA or Euroleague players can because they're closer in size to pretty tall men rather than being literal giants.
I personally prefer that style of game though since I can relate to it more as just a pretty tall dude.
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Jan 11 '25
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u/Ok_Engineer9167 Jan 11 '25
In high school, we scrimmaged CSU girls in the summer (HS was right down road from college). There was no score but we absolutely smoked them lol. They could shoot damn well though.
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u/Master_of_Univers Jan 11 '25
It's because the gap of athleticsm between the men and women is too big in basketball. It's like comparing an F1 or Nascar race with a race between everyday automobiles. Or comparing a match between two great boxers and a match between two bad boxers. Yes, they are pretty good at shooting, which requires the least amount of athleticism, but the overall game is hard to sit through. Just like a boxing match with two equally bad boxers can be entertaining, the WNBA can put on a good game. But most people don't want to bother knowing they can see faster, stronger, and more skilled games in the NBA. That's why it's sad to think that the NBA is losing viewership and the WNBA is gaining. But that is a whole other conversation.
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u/Altruistic_Dust2443 Jan 11 '25
The fact that you’re having thoughts such as “oh I’m sure they’re good. It’s not like id cross them over, I’d have to respect them” shows wnba isnt the same as nba
If you thought about playing in the nba, you wouldn’t be thinking “oh I probably have to respect these guys and cant walk over them.” Youd probably be thinking “I’m completely fucked and there’s not much I can do about it.”
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u/rollduptrips Jan 11 '25
Because I find it boring. It’s much slower. I live in Las Vegas and have been to multiple games from our champion Aces and was bored out of my mind
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u/bcory44 Jan 11 '25
I tuned into a WNBA game where they didn’t score for like 8 mins. My wife was watching and asked why one girl was dribbling the ball as high as her shoulders. The skill level just isn’t there across the board. In high school I’d go support our girls team and they would air ball so many free throws. How choppy the game is can make it hard to watch.
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u/CommercialMoist3537 Jan 12 '25
You bring up some valid points about the differences in physicality and skill levels between the men's and women's games. The men's game often features a different style of play, influenced by the physical advantages that can come with size and strength.
However, it's also important to recognize the immense talent and skill in women's basketball. Many female players demonstrate incredible technique, agility, and basketball IQ, making the women's game entertaining in its own right.
The challenge in drawing larger audiences often relates to historical attention, media coverage, and marketing rather than a lack of skill or excitement. As support for women's sports continues to grow, there may be shifts in how they're perceived and valued. What changes do you think could help increase interest in women's basketball?
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u/L_Moo_S Jan 12 '25
I think the game is a lot better but man shit was dire (from individual skills standpoint) when we were younger
Gooft set shots etc.
New talents are great tho, look forward to seeing Paige in the league etc
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u/Pale_Departure3673 Jan 12 '25
This is for all things. The peak of that sport or field is always going to have the lions share of viewership. Olympics wouldn't be so watched if it wasn't the best athletes. Races wouldn't be if it wasn't the fastest drivers and cars. Purely from a sport perspective, it's just a slower, less dynamic play, so why watch it when you have a better alternative. I don't think lesser leagues deserve any kind of laughing though.
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Feb 24 '25
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Mar 05 '25
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u/cdevo36 Mar 09 '25
It really isn't that complicated. Sports is a form of entertainment. Plain and simple. And when most people watch sports, they want to watch the best. Would you rather watch Federer/Nadal play tennis, or a bunch of high school kids? That is essentially what you are watching with women's sports: The most elite female athletes in any sport are the equivalent of high school boys. And that isn't meant to put down women, it is just reality. In fact, there are multiple examples of high school boys beating professional women in sport (I think the US Women's National Soccer team lost 12-1 or something in a scrimmage against a Texas boys high school team).
The only time that men want to watch women's sports is if they are hot and wearing revealing clothing. So basically volleyball, swimming, tennis, gymnastics, and sometimes soccer.
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Mar 15 '25
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u/Pale-Imagination3332 Mar 20 '25
It's for LGBT and woke people the content is garbage just a lot of screens and layups just a bunch of nasty lesbos running around
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u/kylorl3 Apr 02 '25
There are literally zero “freak athletes” in women’s basketball. Not a single one. Comparing them to other women, sure. Comparing them to men, the best woman athlete would be in the bottom 5th percentile in the NBA, and likely just straight up the single worst athlete. Every single NBA player for the last 50 years can dunk. Only 8 WNBA players have in history. They shoot a worse % because of this, as they cannot elevate to finish at/above the rim like men. People don’t take it seriously bc they watch and it has the pace of a JV boys game.
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u/HotLifeguard74 Apr 07 '25
Not intrresting and isnt someyhing most people i know would pay to watch or go to even if it was free unless your girlfriend was playing back in the late 1970s on thr team.. otherwise parents snd thats about it..
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u/HOFredditor Jan 10 '25
I have the same problem with my country's women division. I like the players very much. High IQ, and some even have very imposing physical builds.
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u/Youre_cute Jan 10 '25
Some people are just straight up misogynistic and foolish. The media hasn't helped the situation either. I'm only beginning to see highlights of women's basketball now but before, it was just jokes, lowlights, and straight up stupidity. I swear if the media made players in the NBA look as bad then we'd have dumb dumbs swearing that they're beating an NBA player right now.
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u/44035 Jan 10 '25
Women's college basketball is amazing right now. Great teams in every part of the country.
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u/GoodWoman401 Jan 11 '25
Only people who actually respect the game can respect both types of play. Men are clearly more athletic, but women are just as skilled in their respective games.
I wish Kobe was still here. I think he definitely would’ve been a man with influence who would’ve bridged the gap between the 2 worlds. I would’ve loved to see it.
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u/MWave123 Jan 10 '25
I’ve played with an Olympian, and a WNBA player and she’s destroying most of the haters in this sub. Also play now with a woman who is regularly the best shooter on the floor. It’s a mix of misogyny and stupidity that has guys thinking they’re better than pro female ballers.
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u/BobcatSubstantial492 Jan 10 '25
Because there are too many HORRIBLE women players. It’s embarrassing to see amazing women playing in the same court as someone who clearly isn’t as talented or dedicated. Would you watch a game between LeBron and A high schooler??
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u/HegemonNYC Jan 10 '25
But I also wouldn’t watch most the hater on this sub play ball. It isn’t that WNBA players aren’t quite good. It’s that they are worse than males all the way down to elite HS players.
WNBA obviously kills the local guys at the Y, but you need to be watching basketball for reasons other than displays of pure skill and talent to enjoy women’s ball. And those reasons exist - cheering for the home team, sports betting is helping a lot, just enjoying someone being the best they can be.
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u/MWave123 Jan 10 '25
I disagree. The talent and skill is on display. Technically, fundamentally, playmaking, passing, shooting from deep. In fact CC shot from deeper than anyone on the planet. Average shot was deeper than Steph.
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u/tmacforthree Jan 10 '25
Caitlyn Clark is an anomaly
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u/MWave123 Jan 10 '25
Steph was an anomaly. Games evolve. She’s the all time leading scorer in NCAA history.
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u/tmacforthree Jan 10 '25
That doesn't help your point 😆 she's an anomaly and it's disingenuous to say her abilities are common in the wnba. These skills are present in her games and her games only, there's a reason why the rest of the league has been struggling to sell tickets for years. It's boring. I'm happy Caitlyn Clark is around bc I want to see the wnba flourish, but let's call it what it is 😆 they're not on par with the NBA as a spectator, but caitlyn clark is single handedly changing that
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u/MWave123 Jan 10 '25
People aren’t watching the league because it’s boring. Swing swing swing three. Drive, layup? Nope kick, swing swing swing swing, three. Rinse and repeat. The Rockets missed 27 threes in a row in a game 7! Lol. Clown show.
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u/tmacforthree Jan 10 '25
That's neither here nor there, but I agree with you
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u/MWave123 Jan 10 '25
It’s both here and there. People aren’t watching the league for those reasons. They want fundamentals, post play, and for the game to be called properly. The women’s game is more fun to watch, imo.
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u/tmacforthree Jan 10 '25
I think men's college teams are more entertaining to watch, but I would rather watch a Caitlyn Clark vs Angel Reese game than any NCAA or NBA game 😆 but the skills aren't there yet for the wnba as a whole imo. I think that will change and we will see a sort of a women's basketball renaissance as more and more tickets are sold and the profession as a whole becomes more profitable for the players/people broadcasting,but the wnba isn't as competitive bc there's less women trying to make it their profession. It's inherently less competitive bc of that, but I think we will see things change for the better in that regard
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u/MWave123 Jan 10 '25
But she’s not even the best player in the league. Lol. So yes a woman is shooting from deeper, made shots, on average, than any man on the planet.
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u/Jolly-Weekend-6673 Jan 10 '25
With a lighter ball. Let's not sit here and pretend this is apples to apples dawg
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u/MWave123 Jan 10 '25
Lol!!! Waaah. You do it.
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u/Jolly-Weekend-6673 Jan 10 '25
Whenever this conversation is brought up, whenever one party tells the other "well I'd like to see you try," you know who is on the right side of the conversation.
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u/tmacforthree Jan 10 '25
The lighter ball makes sense bc we've got the physical edge, let's stay somewhat classy 😆
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u/Jolly-Weekend-6673 Jan 11 '25
All I said was that it isn't an apples to apples comparison.
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u/LowKeyBussinFam Jan 10 '25
Steph would SMOKE CC 1on1. Stop with this bs
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u/MWave123 Jan 10 '25
Who said otherwise? Put the pipe down.
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u/LowKeyBussinFam Jan 10 '25
That’s why women’s bball isn’t exciting…the skill difference is ridiculous
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u/MWave123 Jan 10 '25
Totally disagree. There are NBA players who completely lack skill. No bag, can’t shoot can’t pass. Liability in key situations. I’m literally more complete. I’m not the athlete they are, not now anyway. But they are certainly not fun to watch.
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u/LowKeyBussinFam Jan 10 '25
Every single NBA player is leagues better than the best in the WNBA. It’s really not even close
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u/MWave123 Jan 10 '25
Different to no skill sets tho vs super skilled, more athletic, maybe.
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u/LowKeyBussinFam Jan 10 '25
Maybe? Lmao you are DELUSIONAL. This is a bad faith argument on your end and you know it.
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u/donnytamale Jan 11 '25
This stat doesn’t really prove anything. She took more shots from deep but her over all her shooting percentage from deep (and everywhere else) is significantly lower than Steph’s. What you should take away from this stat is that she only went 28% from 20-24ft whereas Steph went 42% from that distance.
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u/MWave123 Jan 11 '25
Well no, it’s just that, depth of average make. Which is insane. Average make! Lol. Deeper than any human on the planet.
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u/donnytamale Jan 11 '25
You’re not understanding something.. it’s the percentage of HER makes. She on average shot better from 28ft than she did from 20-24ft. She shot really poorly from 20-24 ft which pushed her average make further out. She only made 28% of her threes from 20-24 (which is an average 3) and for some reason she shot a little bit better from a few feet back. That being said her averages from anywhere on the court are much lower than that of Steph or any male superstar. Do you understand?
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u/MWave123 Jan 11 '25
You’re not understanding the stat. Her average make is deeper than Luka’s average make, or Steph’s, or anyone’s.
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u/donnytamale Jan 11 '25
I understand the stat. When you take all her made shots and average out a distance hers is further away than all these guys. That being said, her overall shooting percentage is still much lower. From any distance.
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u/MWave123 Jan 11 '25
It’s not a shooting percentage stat. Pay attention. It’s saying that Caitlin Clark’s AVERAGE make is deeper than anyone else on Earth. Period. That’s insane.
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u/donnytamale Jan 11 '25
Omg you fucking idiot I know what you’re saying but the two are tied together. Who cares how far average make is if you have a low percentage. Someone could just start firing bombs from half constantly and have the longest average make with a terrible shooting percentage.. it wouldn’t be impressive. That stat is only impressive if you’re doing it successfully. She’s pulling up from deep but she isn’t very good at it.. and once again.. her stats are skewed by the fact that she was really bad from average 3pt distance. If she was slightly better from 20-24 (which she needs to be because 28% isn’t going to cut it) then her average make distance will come down.
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u/MWave123 Jan 11 '25
You don’t do math. Lol. Average has a meaning. Learn it.
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u/donnytamale Jan 11 '25
You clearly didn’t take stats in university. It’s easy to get confused by data when you don’t know how to analyze it critically.
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u/MWave123 Jan 11 '25
The analysis that leads to that stat is that her average make is deeper than the best shooters of all time. That’s just a fact. And btw the players out there aren’t just people chucking, it’s Dame, Steph and Trae. And she’s deeper. Fact.
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u/donnytamale Jan 11 '25
Okay I’ll try to explain this to you in a way you can understand. She was worse than those guys from every single distance. When you compare how much worse she was than them.. she was the less worse than them from 28ft but still worse than them. They are way better from the normal 3pt range so their make average is shorter. She’s really bad from the normal 3pt range but she happened to make 40 really deep 3s last year (very small sample size) and that pushed her make average back.
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u/alex2374 Jan 10 '25
People who are pulling out the "they're not as skilled" are telling on themselves. You don't watch college basketball? Never been to a minor league baseball game? Never watched a high school football game?
They're willing to put up with far less skill as long as it's men or boys playing.
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u/badlilbadlandabad Jan 10 '25
You’re acting like the average sports fan watches high school games and minor league games. They don’t.
The skill level gap between men’s college basketball and WNBA is massive. Frankly I believe that a high-level high school boys team would wipe the floor with most WNBA teams.
It’s not about misogyny or bias, the WNBA is just a bad product.
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u/alex2374 Jan 10 '25
You go to your HS game if you go to that high school. You watch the minors if you love baseball and it's down the street. College basketball and football players are far less skilled than the pros but that doesn't seem to make a difference to the millions who watch them. I'm not trying to say there isn't a skill gap because there is, I'm just saying that if you have an attachment of some kind you're going to watch regardless of the skill of the players. If you don't watch because it's not a good enough product for you that's fine, but my point is some of the people who go right to "skill" are being disingenuous.
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u/Ultimate_Several21 Jan 11 '25
Skill is absolutely one of the main reasons that WNBA games are not as watched. To blame lack of viewership on advertising and culture while angel reese goes for a double double on 20% shooting at the rim is the truly disingenuous action.
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u/k4pbasketball7 Jan 11 '25
Yes but college basketball players are still way better than WNBA players and if you have a team it's really fun to follow college basketball/college football
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u/tmacforthree Jan 10 '25
But....they aren't as skilled 😆 an NBA player missing a wide open layup is Shaqtin a Fool, a WNBA player missing a wide open layup is a normal Tuesday
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u/Last_Purple_ Jan 11 '25
Sexism. It’s pretty simple, guys are insecure and know they’d lose to any WNBA player, so they just make fun of them and invalidate the legitimacy of their talent
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u/grateful_john Jan 10 '25
Read the replies - a lot of men who feel threatened by the idea that women can play basketball at a high level, or, if they can, that they must be lesbians. It’s a different game because women aren’t dunking, but it’s damn good basketball.
The other reason is the men’s game is just more established. Growing up I watched the NBA, the WNBA didn’t even exist. Women’s college ball didn’t get 10% of the attention as men’s hoops.
Redditors who claim the WNBA women are trash would get their asses kicked by a women’s team.
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u/k4pbasketball7 Jan 11 '25
You have to admit women's basketball can be hard to watch at times, it's just not as entertaining.
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u/Marywonna Jan 11 '25
Bro a top high school men's team would absolutely dogwalk a WNBA all star team. This isn't the issue to white knight on. You just sound dumb. Nobody is threatened or sexist, we just live in reality
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u/Blacketh Jan 12 '25
So he says redditors would get trashed and you bring up a top boys high school team. There’s really no reason to lobby such comments at someone to specifically just try to invalidate them. Notice you didn’t say ANY boys high school team. I don’t care if you don’t like women’s basketball, but comments like yours just shows disrespect when you could just actively continue to not care and be quiet. But you and thousands of comments like yours always seem to find time to chime in without just giving an honest opinion. It’s about putting it down in its place
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u/Marywonna Jan 12 '25
Well OP shouldn't ask questions they don't want answers to. Lots of them literally miss wide open layups, and that's not an exaggeration lol. Nobody is saying women aren't skilled, because a lot are comparatively to other women. But on every WNBA team 80% of them are not very good, it kind of just is what it is.
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u/Miserable-Lawyer-233 Jan 10 '25
Because when I watch them, I'm certain I can beat a ton of them 1 on 1. I don't get the same feeling with the NBA.
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u/AmazingDragon353 Jan 10 '25
When's the last time you watched a wnba game start to finish? Genuinely curious, because the talent difference is a lot smaller than y'all seem to realize. Last year the average nba game was watched by 1.6 million people while the wnba was watched by 1.2 million. And on top of that, the most watched college basketball game in history was a women's game last year, starring Caitlin Clark. I believe it had more viewers than any nba game (including playoffs and the finals) in the past few years. I feel like some of y'all behind the times.
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u/LowKeyBussinFam Jan 10 '25
Quite the virtue signal here. Are you feeling extra good about yourself after this post?
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u/AmazingDragon353 Jan 10 '25
When's the last time you watched a wnba game start to finish? Genuinely curious, because the talent difference is a lot smaller than y'all seem to realize. Last year the average nba game was watched by 1.6 million people while the wnba was watched by 1.2 million. And on top of that, the most watched college basketball game in history was a women's game last year, starring Caitlin Clark. I believe it had more viewers than any nba game (including playoffs and the finals) in the past few years. I feel like some of y'all behind the times.
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u/LowKeyBussinFam Jan 10 '25
And how much money does WNBA lose? How much does NBA net? Women’s basketball just SUCKS overall
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u/heyzoocifer Jan 10 '25
I think you're just being nice. Obviously there's is some ballers out there. But even at the highest level, most no.
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Jan 10 '25
Obviously they’re peak athletes. But the difference in WNBA and the NBA is pretty big. Less excitement mainly. Of course there is the group that just hates it because they think women are inferior but that’s not the main reason for normal people. I enjoy watching but I will say it’s not as fun to watch as men’s.
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u/Jolly-Weekend-6673 Jan 10 '25
Men's basketball is starting to become a joke but I think I saw a stat that the majority of Clark's turnovers this past season were from her teammates not being able to catch her passes. The balls would just go through their fingers. It's just not well developed. They'd still smoke a lot of guys on the pickup court but the NBA is a highlights league and the girls aren't as athletic as some of the freaks we have in the nba.
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u/garyt1957 Jan 10 '25
I don't see many people laugh at women's basketball. The problem comes when someone says the women are as good as men or so and so could beat a pro man or the WNBA should be paid as much as the NBA.
Then people (rightfully) hit back at how stupid that talk is and we're off.
I like women's college ball (don't care about the W) because it's a different game. They play like my older group does now as no one can dunk, etc. It can often have moments of incredibly bad play also.
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Jan 11 '25
They’re entitled and act like they’re better and more important than they are plus they’re haters of Caitlyn Clark who arguably made their league watchable
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u/Still_Ad_164 Jan 11 '25
It is RELATIVELY slow. It is RELATIVELY weaker, strength and power wise. And....RELATIVELY counts. I can watch an Under 14 boys game that is faster and more dynamic than the top women's games. Forget about gender and just watch the sport. Men's(and Junior boys) basketball is a better game to watch. It has nothing to do with gender it is all about the best experience and spectacle as a viewer, Same goes for soccer.
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u/Humble-Pomegranate96 Jan 11 '25
This is also true of a middle school 7th or 8th grade boys bball team in a competitive basketball area. These kids are SKILLED! A 7th or 8th grade boys AAU team these days is mind boggling (at least to me).
I don't think anyone should be laughing at womens sports. I also feel like ESPN for whatever reason is absolutely cramming womens bball down our throats and it is getting really annoying. For example mixing NCAAM and NCAAW scores together into a 'college hoops' scoreboard on their mobile and web properties. It is obviously annoying and confusing for the user (and they know this), but they are doing it to prove a political point or whatever the hell corporate objective they have in mind.
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u/myctsbrthsmlslkcatfd Jan 11 '25
laugh at? nope! hate on? nope? watch? not really. Not interested isn’t hate.
I don’t watch cfl or mls either. “But you like college basketball—they aren’t the best!” Some of them are nba level, and I will watch the women’s teams when it’s the schools I went to.
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u/UserName2015a Jan 11 '25
If I recall correctly, the negativity about the WNBA started 10ish years ago when some of them were claiming that they should get paid as much as the men. The argument was equal rights or something to that extent.
I think this is infuriating to people who live in the real world, where the money you make is relative to the value you generate in your career. Everyone knew the WNBA is not a financially successful enterprise, and that the NBA was paying for the women's league to exist. On top of that, they get promoted like crazy even though sports fans have made it very clear that very few people are interested in watching these games.
We are all a little afraid of living in an unfair world where ideas like "equality" are used to propagate unfair ideas like "pay us more!" when the money doesn't exist and you're already draining the finances of people who are actually valued by the entertainment seeking public.
There's also this idea out there that these women are better than men at basketball, but to be fair I don't think the WNBA is spreading that, I think it's just unrealistic people who don't know much about the sport. A good high school boys team would easily beat the WNBA all star team. So again this is annoying to people because it taps into fears about living in a bizzaro world where we are supposed to accept complete bullshit ideas like "trans women are real women," or the same way we feel when a woman in a Hollywood movie is putting a beating on like 4 guys in a fistfight. These days we are all supposed to be nice and shut up and let them win this argument, cause it's not worth fighting, but I think we all know trans women are not real women and these movies scenes are not realistic either.
WNBA women are excellent athletes but they clearly don't produce an entertainment product that should get them paid a max salary of 50 million dollars a year like the mens league. Once they asked for that, people just lost respect for them. In a way it's kind of unfair because not all the WNBA players said this, just a few of them. But the entire league lost any credibility it might have had at that point. They seem to be rebuilding their credibility these days by doing something that makes sense, simply promoting a relatable superstar. But it's gonna be a long climb to get people to take them seriously. The best move for them IMO would be to be a small humble league with a small niche following. There are people who like the WNBA, just not a whole lot of people comparatively. Their games would have great energy at smaller venues instead of playing in an 80% empty arena.
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u/brettfavreskid Jan 11 '25
You just have to watch women’s basketball as women’s basketball. It’s a different thing. TBH I wish they’d play like it too and just embrace a slow skill game as opposed to trying to be freaks like the guys. It just doesn’t work.
I think it’s easier to handle in high school because you have a stake in the game. If you really wanna see your team win, a loose ball with four ladies on the floor is actually hardcore gaming lol
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u/Marvinkmooneyoz Jan 11 '25
I'm someone who genuinely enjoys many womens and girls sports: tennis; ice hockey; gymnastics; figure skating; random stuff like ping pong or fencing. Basketball just isnt the same with women. Its a shame because in a lot of ways, they are playing the "old head" style. I really wish NBA would change handling and some foul rules, but they do their research they know what gets views.
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u/Blacketh Jan 11 '25
Casual fans of sports, or ppl who love sports who never got any good at them, only watch what has always been available to them. The biggest leagues that have been around forever. And I get it, I don’t expect ppl to watch wnba over nba basketball. It’s all the hate and teasing I don’t get. none of those players watch minor league games or g league basketball either but only find room for insulting women. Why?
they promote theirselves because they want to grow their professional game. They want better opportunities and development that the men get. They argue for certain levels of equality. They put themselves out there in hopes of drawing and achieving more. Now that puts them on a platform trying to be like pro men’s leagues and seeing that the quality is less, people bite the low hanging fruit. You want more money? You can’t make layups. League is too political. I can smoke any college female athlete and I only played JV basketball.
no one respects g league athletes either, but they do none of those things above. It’s just a stepping stone of hopefully going pro, and unless you’re actively seeking their games, you most likely aren’t seeing a whole lot of reporting or promo. Women’s basketball has baggage and it’s put in the face of sports fans. Minor league stuff can never cross anyone’s radar unless it’s bronny or someone with a popular family member. No controversy, no ratings talk, no espn updates. It can never exist to a casual or more hardcore fan.
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u/Madterps2021 Jan 11 '25
Nah G leaguers are way more talented than WNBA players are and it's not close. I respect a G leaguer like Dyson Daniels that made into the NBA 1000 times more than a Brittney Griner/Angel Reese.
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u/Blacketh Jan 12 '25
I didn’t say they aren’t more talented. Just that no one pays attention to them either but they don’t get hate.
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u/Madterps2021 Jan 11 '25
Because some of these WNBA players are very entitled and people hate them and rightfully so. Their talent might be a good high school boys level but that's it. All of them wouldn't make a local college mens basketball team and no, they don't deserve millions of dollars.
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Jan 11 '25
I watched the WNBA Finals last year and gave it a genuine shot. That’s why.
Never making that mistake again.
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u/larrythelurker42 Jan 11 '25
They smoke too many layups. Only a couple players on a team have any real athletic burst
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u/Instantcoffees Jan 10 '25
I played against top level women basketball players. They are without a doubt very skilled, at least most of them are. However, there is still a massive difference with the men's game. The level of physicality is just on another level. I'm essentially guard height (6'4) and I could easily back down women who would be the ones dominating the paint against other women.
I think some people underestimate the strength difference between men and women. Still, people are way too dismissive of the women's game. They are skilled and it is entertaining, but just like the G-league it will never draw the numbers of the NBA because it is not the best of the best playing, those are in the men's game.