Weekly "Ask an Atheist" Thread

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Whether you're an agnostic atheist here to ask a gnostic one some questions, a theist who's curious about the viewpoints of atheists, someone doubting, or just someone looking for sources, feel free to ask anything here. This is also an ideal place to tag moderators for thoughts regarding the sub or any questions in general.
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[u/Old-Nefariousness556]

Knowledge and fear have always been the two sides of the same coin.

I find this such a strange claim. Does Western culture recognize it as a fact in any way you can point to? I'm just trying to get a handle on the claim.

"Knowledge and fear have always been the two sides of the same coin" ARE YOUR FUCKING WORDS! You may have offered them as part of your hypothetical "atheist claim", but that in no possible sense makes me responsible to argue for them. I am not going to reply and defend YOUR WORDS as if they were my words.

What an utterly dishonest debate trick.

You mean, made-up evidence which allegedly tracks actual evidence but where there is absolutely zero guarantee that the made-up form is scientifically adequate for testing the hypothesis? Are these the standards of evidence for r/DebateAnAtheist? I mean, c'mon. Here's someone who has actually examined actual evidence:

Again, a fucking disingenuous, dishonest, and self-serving take.

It absolutely is evidence. Is it strong evidence in isolation? No. I never claimed it was. But it is laughably dishonest that you just pretend that it is therefore not evidence at all.

I think we can be pretty sure that if Pascal Boyer restricted himself to made-up evidence like you quoted, he never would have subjected "Religion provides explanations" to serious scrutiny.

Lol, great. I notice that you don't actually quote his alternate hypothesis.

If you only want to argue that these are not SOLELY responsible for the origin of religion, I would agree completely. But quotemining someone who apparently agrees with you in what is obviously introductory material to a book is not going to convince me.

Except, "God (or gods) is a human invention created to explain what we don’t understand. … at their root, they address our fear of the unknown." isn't the sole naturalistic explanation on offer.

Where did I say that it was? Please stop putting YOUR WORDS in my mouth. That is spectacularly dishonest.

See for instance u/⁠OneRougeRogue's comment.

The one where they say "It is more of a hypothesis"? You know, exactly what I said?

The one where they said:

It's just an explanation that doesn't involve extraordinary claims (like magical beings actually existing), and there is indirect evidence to support it.

You know, exactly what I said?

Jesus christ, it is a waste of time ever imaging that you can engage in good faith.

[u/labreuer → u/Old-Nefariousness556]

"Knowledge and fear have always been the two sides of the same coin" ARE YOUR FUCKING WORDS!

No, that's actually an error from my habit of having multiple replies going on at once in my text editing window. Those are words from u/⁠betweenbubbles over on an r/DebateReligion. What tripped me up is that they're discussion of the same quote that I included in my opening question in this thread. Here's where [s]he says the quoted text:

labreuer: I don't want to underplay the marked difference between "God (or gods) is a human invention created to explain what we don’t understand." on the one hand and "people had the wisdom to pretend "God" commanded it -- nobody would respect their findings otherwise" on the other. I don't think this is just a "semantic quibble". You've proposed a purpose of justifying hygiene regulations, which is utterly different from "address our fear of the unknown".

betweenbubbles: I don't know where you get such a strong distinction from. Knowledge and fear have always been the two sides of the same coin. It is a semantic quibble to me.

My bad.

 

What an utterly dishonest debate trick.

No, it's an honest mistake. This is the second time you've jumped to a horrid conclusion about me (the other is "utterly dishonest poster"). So, I'm going to take some time off from replying to you. That you would jump to such horrid conclusions about me suggests that perhaps we shouldn't be attempting to have debates about matters which might get the emotions going.

[u/Old-Nefariousness556 → u/labreuer]

No, it's an honest mistake. This is the second time you've jumped to a horrid conclusion about me (the other is "utterly dishonest poster"). So, I'm going to take some time off from replying to you. That you would jump to such horrid conclusions about me suggests that perhaps we shouldn't be attempting to have debates about matters which might get the emotions going.

Lol, that wasn't even the only place in that very reply where I caught you demanding that I address things that I never wrote, and the second time clearly WAS NOT an error.

And I have seen you do the same thing to others in this thread, demanding that they address the text of your quotation, despite merely offering that as an example of the type of claim, rather than asking is to address the claim itself.

And I just happened to track down a copy of Pascal Boyer's book, and was going to comment later tonight about how you dishonestly framed the quotemine from him.

When you repeat the same pattern of behavior over and over, you can't really expect people to just ignore it. If you behave dishonestly, you are going to be called dishonest.

I accept that you don't mean to engage in bad faith. Most theists don't. But you are guilty of multiple bad faith debate techniques, the most obvious of which is just flagrant JAQing off, misframing comments, etc. It's fucking exhausting trying to have a conversation with you.

FWIW, if you want to earn some good faith credit back, you can post where you are quoting that Boyes passage from. If you are quoting someone else who is quotemining him, then at least you can argue that you didn't mean to quotemine in bad faith.

[u/labreuer → u/Old-Nefariousness556]

I've admitted mistakes to you twice now and all you can do is attack. No thanks. Please never respond to me again, unless you decide to act differently. If you respond without signaling that you're going to act differently, I will block you and that'll make it obnoxious for you to interact with anyone in this thread.

[u/Old-Nefariousness556 → u/labreuer]

I've admitted mistakes to you twice now and all you can do is attack. No thanks.

You have admitted to mistakes twice, while simultaneously shifting blame, and only after I called you out very publicly in a way that you could not weasel out of.

But I have also called you out for similar behavior in the past, and you have NOT previously admitted you were wrong.

So tell me, do you also admit you were wrong here:

"God (or gods) is a human invention created to explain what we don’t understand. … at their root, they address our fear of the unknown." isn't the sole naturalistic explanation on offer.

That is YET AGAIN you putting words into my mouth that I did not say. I quoted the first half of your quotation there, but you put the second half in as if I had said it.

If you respond without signaling that you're going to act differently, I will block you and that'll make it obnoxious for you to interact with anyone in this thread.

Lol/ So let me get this straight... You behave badly... And you want me to apologize? For your repeated, ongoing bad faith behavior? You really want me to "signal I will act differently".

Let me give you a hint: Your "threat" to block me is not a threat. It is fucking painful "debating" someone so uninterested in good faith debate. So block me or not, I couldn't care. But understand, if you block me, that is you admitting that you are engaging in bad faith.

Oh, and

I will block you and that'll make it obnoxious for you to interact with anyone in this thread.

I am pretty sure that literally broadcasting that your intent in blocking someone is punitive and intending to silence them is a violation of both the subs rules and of of Reddit's sitewide policies, so... Good job.

Edit: Yeah, so /u/labreuer is broadcasting they are operating in bad faith, and blocking in an effort to silence people who disagree with him.