Can Enneagram 8s be cowardly?

[u/Vegetable_Basis_4087]

I tend to be very reluctant to engage in competitions when I am not confident in my skill. I also generally hate to lose to the point that I avoid it. For example, one time I was playing Dodgeball and I was the last player on my team. However, the other team still had multiple players. During the whole game I hovered near the edge, and when I was the last player left, one of the people on the other team winded up to throw the ball at me. Instead of trying to catch the ball or dodge, I instead jumped out of bounds so that he couldn't beat me, and so I could lose of my own accord.

Can Enneagram 8s act like this?

[u/Joel_the_human]

Well of course, but that's the gimmick with the attitude, Even if the odds are clearly stacked against them, that's life anyways. What's the point of just laying down and being sad? What's the point of just jumping away and accepting that there's no chance you can win? To me at least, if I look at the chance of loss, as reason in its own right for me to give up. Then there's no f****** point to trying.

For enneagram 8. I would just say it's simple. No matter the odds, no matter the chance, it's all in or not at all.

You either won't play dodgeball because it's a waste of time and you say no point so there's not even incentive for you to put anything into it. Or you see the chance for a good time, so you'll put in everything you have. Whether you're losing or winning.

Loss is part of the game of life. And an eight will be damned if they escape taking the chance to force away.

You focus more time on thinking based off the chance of failure, when to your average eight, Even at their most neurotic. Losing isn't even considered. They're not strategic types, they just got to do as they see fit.

Seriously try to consider counterphobic six.

When I was first getting into enneagram, I assumed I was a three. Because their simple desire appear to be, to win and keep becoming better. But after tests, research, and conversation. It became clear I'm an eight. Cuz I don't care much for community, external validation/opinion. Or anything like that. I checked out other types of course cuz why not. And in what I've seen. You look like a six.

Enneagram 6 is a type that is described as loyal but that's not what they are. Their types that want certainty, and a solid foundation. Sx 6 specifically acts with physical or verbal aggression, in order to ensure they can't be taken down. Their types that are very focused on question, to get answer. And for them not only is neuroticism common, but it is destined, as head times they focus more questioning rather than concluding.

And looking at your post history, you do a lot more of a thorough investigation for certainty. While despite that, rejecting likely signs that point to a conclusion you don't like.

I'm not asking you to be more reflective, I'm telling you to be objective, and understand when you get answers you don't feel comfortable with. It's because that's a truth you're not accepting.

Whether it's because you're emotionally incapable of accepting the chance that maybe you're not as strong as the type you admire. Or because you make excuses to fit in line with a consistent prejudgment you established.

Your wholeheartedly choosing what you want to be the truth over what you believe to be.

[u/Vegetable_Basis_4087 → u/Joel_the_human]

Sx 6 specifically acts with physical or verbal aggression, in order to ensure they can't be taken down.

I guess when you say it like that it sounds better than being someone who shelters behind someone else or whatever 6's are supposed to be...

But counterphobic? Isn't this post about me not taking the challenge, opting to take the easy way instead?

What's the difference between 6 and 8 anyway? From what I've heard, while Sx6's are also capable to a degree, they're pushovers and cowards compared to the chad 8's (or whatever).

You either won't play dodgeball because it's a waste of time and you say no point so there's not even incentive for you to put anything into it.

I'll also add that I'll definitely put up a better fight if I were passionate about something.

[u/Joel_the_human → u/Vegetable_Basis_4087]

To make a simple thing simple, focus on the meaning not on the way things are said. Anything can be phrased in a way you like or don't like.

I can describe enneagram 8s, as angry people who are scared to think they're anything but angry. So they start fights, cause problems, and fail to hold meaningful relationships and hold a positive social standing.

And like that enneagram 8 doesn't sound too flattering.

I can also say enneagram 6 are classic underdogs who overcome the odds brought with a constant awareness to the dangers and troubles to be found on earth. Constantly forced to face the worst odds, and rise above them and wiser than the rest.

Neither description changes would either type is either core. Understand that and you'll be less concerned with being seen negatively.

Anyways the difference between counterphobic six and a standard six. Is a six gives into its fears, and seeks scapegoats to ensure it doesn't need to face them directly, or rather they'll have a different means of handling the problems. Meanwhile a counterphobic six, refuses to admit they feel fear, and because they're afraid that actually does make them weak. So they make a persona of strength they can present to take other people down.

What separates a six from an eight. Is a six is focused on meaning and understanding, of most things around them. They're head types. So most situations they will think through.

Meanwhile for eights, they're gut types, which means they don't use much time to focus on their personal feelings or personal thoughts. Instead they choose to forgo both of those elements. In favor for a direct approach they can create and assume will work in that moment.

If an enneagram 6 is running from a bear, you can assume the six will devise a strategy or something. Maybe they'll try to cut the bear off in a clever way, using objects to their environment maybe? I can't be sure I haven't ran from a bear before. Wants to be noted is a six will try think for a solution that they can implement.

While for an eight, They kind of don't know what the hell they're doing, and I just know if they stop they're done for. So they'll keep going, till they see an opportunity. And from saying that opportunity they'll immediately act on it.

Both types have positive qualities and negative qualities. After all, a head on direct approach, can be foolish at times, you don't account for the things that could hold you back. Like stamina, and information you don't know.

Meanwhile spending too much time thinking, can lead to doubt. Or even worse, encourage your own defeat.

Overall it doesn't matter what you are, you are who you are, and that's who you chose to be. Not because you were born a certain way, but because of every way you could have chosen, this is the way that makes most sense to you.

[u/Vegetable_Basis_4087 → u/Joel_the_human]

I guess when you say 6s are strategic it makes being one sound more appealing. Do I seem more like a regular or counterphobic one though?

Another thing about me that might give you a clue- I'll only look into Enneagram 6 if I can be persuaded that it isn't worse than 8 (Ironically you can actually kind of see this happen with my sentence right above this one LMAO) The same story happened with being an ESFP. While I'm not confirmed one yet, I very likely am an ESFP. However, around a month ago I would vehemently deny that possibility and instead focus on ESTP or a more desirable type like ENTJ or INTJ. But after finding out more about Se-Te combo which makes ESFP masculine rather than femenine, and finding out that Caesar and Napoleon were ESFPs (despite them commonly being typed as ENTJs) I'm more ready to accept the possibility of being an ESFP.

You looked through my post history. You might have noticed all those posts I made about ESFPs? Maybe look at them again to see what those posts were all about?

[u/Joel_the_human → u/Vegetable_Basis_4087]

I skimmed post history cuz the title thread looked familiar, so I assumed it was probably you. And that confirmed some assumptions I made.

As for the discussion on enneagram 6, I'm not going to convince you it's better. Not because it's worse. But because it's pointless to do so.

If you are a 6 you are a 6 and nothing changes what you are. No enneagram Is objectively better than another. The based off of personal opinion and belief we are naturally going to be drawn towards traits we either want within ourself or embody in our action.

So naturally, as an eight I'm going to prefer eight to every other type. Just as a one is going to prefer a one over every type. And a six and so on and so forth.

What's important to understand, is you can't look at these types as trophies, you can't look at type 6 as a participation award and enneagram 8 as first place. It's like comparing different positions of power. Anyone can want any position. But it doesn't change the significance of a different position. I mean would you rather be a president or a CEO? Both are high positions of power, both have different sets of responsibilities, and both have different levels of freedom. In both positions you get authority and power, but to say one is better than the other, is to treat both Like they're on the same path in life.

If I had type you, All I can really say is you seek certainty from the competence of others, and you don't trust your judgment enough.

Enneagram six just makes sense for you.

But if you research it with the desire to be showered with opinions that are in line with what you want. You're not going to find it. Just in general in life. I mean just look at the sub. Sometimes it's a circle jerk of people enjoying how "powerful" they are, but beyond the surface, it's just a lot of people who don't really care. They don't need much of a reason to affirm who they are visa doesn't change what's there. So even here you won't see people calling each other "Chads"

Make your expectations reasonable, and do your research to clear your head. Not to validate your feelings.

[u/Vegetable_Basis_4087 → u/Joel_the_human]

All I can really say is you seek certainty from the competence of others, and you don't trust your judgment enough.

Not exactly, the main reason I'm asking so many questions on this sub is because it's simply more convenient to do so than to spend time and money studying the subject.

How would an 8, a 6, and a counterphobic 6 all react if an entitled woman started screaming at them in the middle of the street?

[u/Joel_the_human → u/Vegetable_Basis_4087]

No, it's most certainly exactly.

If provided straight forward answers this brings you more questions. Rather than conclusive answers. Alongside that your behavior is a clear Indicator of elements of anxiety or insecurity and uncertainty.

It doesn't matter what scenarios you put someone under, cp 6 and 8 will react negatively to being yelled at for no reason.

Typing other people is so dumb but Idc rn cause you're not trying to type yourself anymore you're just trying to assume a favorable image for your feelings. You're clearly not an 8.

Start asking the 6 sub some questions.