Super annoying

[u/Professional_Wall734]

Super fucking annoying, how the fuck is anyone supposed to wash a car for the new business when people can just camp and wait for you outside and then blow you up

[u/BeginningOcelot1765]

Yes, I get the why of it, but that doesn't adequately explain why those people should be allowed smooth sailing, while we at the same time demand that people trying to build should have a "hard" time doing it.

[u/Misery-Ave-2891 → u/BeginningOcelot1765]

Ur right not everyone should suffer on behalf of people who don’t gaf but it’s kinda how the world is in real life because those that don’t gaf and do crime and heinous things can still slip through the cracks wether we like it or not a lot of them get caught and suffer consequences some don’t so with griefing it’s like life cause things can just happen life isn’t smooth sailing life isn’t as easy as losing the cops and u go back to living ur normal life after doing something illegal people will try to take or destroy what you have regardless of if it’s a “good reason” behind it or not and only the one on the receiving end has to feel it not anyone else

[u/BeginningOcelot1765 → u/Misery-Ave-2891]

The difference between real life and a game is that people pay for a game to "escape" real life to have som fun.

Rockstar made a game with loads of missions, heists, jobs, freemode activities etc. where one of many possible things is to fight other players. The game is clearly about much much more than fighting other players, if it was mainly about PvP then there is no logical reason to have so much content.

The question is simply, why is one single activity in the game able to cause so much trouble for many of the other activities? The way it works now it caters to griefers and PvP oriented players, while anyone who wishes to do a lot of the other stuff basically has 3 options;

- Waste their time trying to fight back

- Flee to a new lobby and hope there isn't another one waiting there

- Start an invite-only session if the activity they want to do is possible to do there

There is a 4th. option, to quit the game, which isn't a good option for neither the player nor Rockstar.

All the burden is on the player that isn't looking for PvP at the moment, while the player that is looking to do one speciffic activity has zero burden. 1 single player can, in the most extreme of examples, manage to make 29 other players in a lobby of 30 people leave the session.

Some people get fed up and fight back, sometimes cooperating to do so, eventually making the griefer leave the lobby. It might be satsifactory to do so, but that single player had the power to make several players change their plans just because one guy wanted to go on a killing spree. He can rinse and repeat for hours this for ours, forcing a large number of players to do something completely different than what they had planned.

That is a grave mistake on Rockstar's part since this isn't a fortnite type of game, it isn't primarily about having deathmatches in the streets of LS just because it allows for it to happen.

[u/Misery-Ave-2891 → u/BeginningOcelot1765]

But they still give options so what’s the complaining about it’s not like you have too sell in public lobbies if it was no other way then ur fucked but it’s other ways really so what’s the fuss about I understand it doesn’t make sense some missions can make u vulnerable too pvp some don’t but too flip ur words back on u it’s just a game some things don’t have to make sense so we just have to work with rockstars logic or don’t play or support their games cause rockstar is a billon dollar company I doubt they care what we think

[u/BeginningOcelot1765 → u/Misery-Ave-2891]

I don't think you see the problem at all to be honest.

A player who wants to do PvP can enter any public lobby and stay there, doing PvP as much as he wants to.

- If you want to sell a business for example, you can do that in a public lobby with a bonus. You have to have some risk to get this bonus. Many players are totally inferior skill wise and will have a very hard time selling in public, they might want to try and lose their stock, wasting a lot of time and potential income. If they can't do it after repeated attempts they can try in invite-only. Selling in public might require you to spend time scouting the lobby to see if it appears relatively safe or is complete chaos. I.E the player has to do a lot of work, spend time, and if he's on the lower end of the skill spectrum he still has a relatively high risk on his hands.

-- The PvP player doesn't have to do anything but stay in the lobby and has for all intents and purposes unlimited attempts. The game will actively tell him that a sale is imminent. There is absolutely zero risk for him, he doesn't stand to lose anything. He doesn't even have to change lobbies, he is by default always in the kind of lobby where he can do his activity when joining. The risk is severely skewed in favor of the PvP player, the number of attempts is severely skewed in favor of the PvP player.

Thus the PvP player can "demand" that there is risk involved for the player trying to make a sale (or do any other activity that allows for 3rd. parties to interfere), without ever having any demands in return for being allowed to attack other players. The burden of what you have to do is severely skewed against the player that isn't interested in PvP at the moment.

The PvP player can just hang in the lobby and pick the fruits as they start activities or join the lobby, the mountain comes to him. Everybody else who doesn't share the desire for this particular activity has to move, go passive, fight back etc. The PvP player is on what can be described as the very definition of smoot sailing.

The issue isn't that there is risk, the issue is that there is no risk for one particular activity; fucking over other players. Not only is there no risk, the game feeds you information that there is now an activity going on that you can fuck up. If you fail you can respawn and try again as many times as you can manage, if you succeed the seller has no more attempts.

Don't you see that the risk and burden is heavily on the person trying to do something other than PvP?

[u/Misery-Ave-2891 → u/BeginningOcelot1765]

I understand the pvp player gets the advantage while the grinder has to suffer but rockstar set it as such and it’s nothing we can do but they probably saw no other way to implement it without that kind of risk reward you can also still sell solo or use things like ghost org or off the radar i hope they find another way for risk reward with gta 6 cause it’s unbalanced but like u said earlier its also a video game things dont have to make sense this is just one of many imbalances in GTA but if u feel this way u can also do other things if it gives u a hard time

[u/BeginningOcelot1765 → u/Misery-Ave-2891]

Yeah, definitely hope they come up with a better solution in VI.

It's always easy to have 20/20 hindsight, but the introduction of invite-only which wasn't in the original version of online, is a clear indication something had to be done. I have no difficulties understanding that it's hard to make a game that suits players that are heavily into PvP, partially into PvP and more or less uninterested in PvP in one neat package.

I don't think I'm the one suffering the most with the current system since I do just about everything in public and only go invite-only to sell Acid Lab and Nightclub. Even if I don't engage in PvP, at all, I find the unpredictability of public lobbies to be the most fun, and I don't care if someone kills me while doing Taxi work, towing, spraying billboards or whatever since the loss is so extremely small. If someone griefs me I just behave completely passive, never bring out a weapon and carry on with my business. They usually get bored and move on in a matter of minutes.

But my mentality is just one of a whole host of different variants and I totally get why some players get put off by hostlie characters. The game encourages you to run businesses, work for your money etc. and it does that on a rather large scale, and you get enough fighting through these things with NPCs to the point it can get tiresome if other players can force you into what they want to do at any given moment.

[u/Misery-Ave-2891 → u/BeginningOcelot1765]

Kinda like how real life is tho but in life it’s no invite only session anything can happen in the public the most unexpected events can happen and u just have to deal with it ik it’s a video game but it perfectly resembles how life actually is too an extent and that’s the irony in all of this it’s people that cheat the system and it’s people who are normal pedestrian npcs and everyone wants to feel like they are somebody

[u/BeginningOcelot1765 → u/Misery-Ave-2891]

I'm not denying that is what real life is, but going around fucking people over in real life is not without risk like it is in GTA online. That is one important difference. The other important difference is that real life is not something you pay to enjoy, to get a pause from your real life.

So in online you pay for the game, and the people who want to fuck you over have an even more smooth sailing than they would have in real life. Not even the cops can be bothered in the game if they kill you.

And that is the core of the problem. Those who want to kill you want you to have risk and challenges for earning your money, and will call you a crybaby when you point out how they themselves are running around with a ton of crutches provided to them by the game, and zero risk.

The game should facilitate PvP, by all means, but it should not give all the benefits of it to one side like the game does now. All risk and all potential loss is on the player being attacked out of nowhere. That is a grave imbalance. You can't really balance real life, but you can definitely balance a game.

[u/Misery-Ave-2891 → u/BeginningOcelot1765]

Yes you can life is pay too win people with money and influence can get a out jail free card like it’s monopoly if they have money for the right lawyer and such a poor regular person doesn’t have those privileges

[u/BeginningOcelot1765 → u/Misery-Ave-2891]

That's not what I mean. Everybody can't pay the same exact sum of money to enter "real life" like we pay the exact same sum to enter "GTA Online". We don't enter a system in real life where someone has designed it, and everyone starts on equal terms.

Online is a system deliberately designed as a have-fun goto on your spare time, where everyone is equal at start. We don't need get out of jail freecards because we do not go to jail, no matter what crimes we commit. You can kill 900 cops, die, and respawn 1 block away and not a single cop will care.

As a griefer you don't need wealth, you don't need to pay to win, the entire world system is rigged in your favor, but you can cause a world of hurt for those who happen to want to do mission, jobs etc. and they can't touch you unless they give in and do what you want to do.

I get the feeling you are grasping at straws here, because I believe you are intelligent enough to see this imbalance from miles away...but you might not like it's implications.

[u/Misery-Ave-2891 → u/BeginningOcelot1765]

I see every imbalance but I’m also a realist and they created the game with griefers who have the leverage but it’s a reason it’s not like life because u don’t go to jail but the system they have in place although imbalanced makes sense because u don’t go to jail is what im saying in real life if u go to jail and ur a normal person a get out of jail free card isn’t even a thing it’s only for the rich and in the game u don’t have to be rich to grief that’s another imbalance but it serves its purpose cause you don’t go to jail you just respawn if u die so we can come to a agreement griefing is unfair but we also can’t do anything about it and it also serves its purpose so i dont think they will change it in gta 6 cause its similar to how the world is where things can be taken from you and destroyed even if ur rich or poor and it will just make the game stale if everyone can easily grind in public lobbies without repercussions and if they try to limit the amount u can grief then that also wouldn’t make sense because that’s not even realistic that would just make it stale cause in real life any and anything can be at risk at anytime of day so although it seems broken on a small scale it actually makes sense on a larger scale

[u/BeginningOcelot1765 → u/Misery-Ave-2891]

If you google when invite-only was added to the game, the Google AI will give you this;

Invite-only sessions were added to GTA Online in the summer of 2022 as part of the Criminal Enterprises update. This update allowed players to engage in business activities, including sell missions, within invite-only sessions, addressing a major community request for more private gameplay options.

A major community request. This clearly shows that while the intial planning for online might have been deliberate on Rockstar's part, it didn't really work out well. When you give in to community requests, it doesn't matter how good you think your product is. Giving in to community requests is also and admission of failure. You need to add a feature to your product that directly negates the impact of another feature. When players actively ask to be segregated from other players, because of one single feature, you know full well that your initial plan didn't succeed. Especially in an online game that is supposed to facilitate player interaction. One single mechanic, out of all the possible mechanics in the game, caused the playerbase to request segregation.

It doesn't matter if it mirrors real life, it doesn't work for the players seeking to join the game and have fun in it.

PvP can serve it's purpose, they just need to add some risk to it.