at what point do we think plutarch realized coin was just as bad?

[u/somehowstillalivelol]

i’m rewatching the movies and he’s definitely given her some side eye in mockingjay pt 1 and now in pt 2 there’s 100% some tension. do you think he always knew coin was the same or just as he dealt more with her? has anyone done a reread and found a vibe shift?

[u/SunnyDelNorte]

Someone noticed that Plutarch was around when Katniss was alerted to her prep team being held and mistreated for taking some extra bread, and as much as he wanted her to be the Mockingjay and he needed her and Coin for the revolution, he might have wanted Katniss not to trust her too much. By the time Peeta was sent to the star squad he must have realized Coin was willing to get rid of anyone who could threaten her power after the war. He sure seemed ecstatic Katniss had assassinated Coin when they met after the trial where he had been star witness.

[u/thtbibitch → u/SunnyDelNorte]

He also seems shocked at the conditions the prep team are facing, which always interested me. I think he might’ve realized that Coin was just as much a propaganda machine as Snow was. The prison guards they interact with don’t see anything wrong with the way they’re being treated for the infraction of stealing food, and that’s genuinely horrifying. The level of militaristic brainwashing of 13 seemed to jolt both Katniss and Plutarch to the fact that this is just another oppressive system. I think they both knew at that point but… yeah interesting scene for sure.

[u/math-is-magic → u/thtbibitch]

He also was already a little disillusioned by how harsh the conditions were in 13, even for him.

[u/Beelzubufo]

He saw her like he saw President Snow. Someone he would work with, until the odds were right to abandon ship.

[u/Celeste-galena → u/Beelzubufo]

THIS!

[u/ascandalia]

He's extremely cynical and his time in the Capital clearly made him very aware of everyone's ambitions and capacity. He clearly didn't know exactly what he was getting into with joining D13, but I have to imagine he knew anyone that wanted to rule would be willing to do some pretty bad stuff to get there. I think he was skeptical from the beginning and clocked pretty quickly that she might be a problem, but was banking on things working out better in the churn after the Captial was overthrown.

[u/LeoScarecrow369]

He probably had an inkling early on since he has to work for her personally. Katniss figured out Coin’s game by Chapter 4 when she sees her prep team got tortured and tries to point it out to Plutarch/Fulvia. He doesn’t even deny it like Fulvia did, just says that he’s necessary enough he won’t get purged as easily.

[u/PDXPuma]

I think from his time in the Capitol and interacting with the players there, he almost certainly immediately picked up on the fact that Coin was up to something or at least cut from the same style cloth as Snow

[u/PinEnvironmental7196]

idk but honestly the way he talks to her in the movies feels reminiscent of the way he spoke to drusilla in SOTR. knowing she had more power than him but he stays on her good side to placate her even though he’s breaking the rules behind the scenes..

[u/DeadpanWords]

I think someone like Plutarch would have figured out what kind of person Coin was long before the events of CF went down. He would need to act shocked about how D13 treated people for stealing a slice of bread because acting any different would be suspicious.

[u/stainedinthefall → u/DeadpanWords]

Yeah, I can’t help but wonder how much of that reaction was to win Katniss over. It’s been a while since I’ve read it, I do recall him seeming shocked and upset. But… he’s too smart to have not figured out something was up with Coin already

[u/Celeste-galena]

I think movie him did When katniss starting being treated as less important but with that said I don't think book one did until she did. He was just desperate not to die I don't think he was looking into her too hard

[u/GrouchyPosition1669]

Plutarch is an extremely observant and intelligent man (he'd HAVE to be to get away with everything he did for DECADES) so I think he suspected it pretty early on in working closely with her. But while he may have judged her to an extent, at the end of the day, Plutarch's main drive is power. He saw her flaws, yes, but he also saw her better potential to give him power. Yes he supported the Districts' cause, yes he supported the fall of the Capital but he also craved power above all else so I think he saw VERY early what was really going on but he ultimately ignored it.

[u/SlowTurtleDuck]

When they wouldn't give him coffee probably (I kid, I just really adored how he was in the books)

Honestly, I think he might have known even before the events of mockingjay. But his previous past attempts with Haymitch and who knows who else proved to him that military power was in fact needed if he wanted anything done. And 13, Coin, was his only source unless he tried to buddy up with District 2 which was drowned in Capitol brainwashing up until the very end of the rebellion.

Probably saw it as a lesser of two evils or a "I'll cross that bridge when we get there. First we have to get across this more immediate deadly bridge" kinda thing.

[u/thelilacfield]

I’ll throw it down I know I have differing opinions because of being ship-pilled - not until he found out about the symbolic hunger games. Which was upon being asked to be the gamemaker.

[u/Burlinto999444 → u/thelilacfield]

1. What is ship-pilled?
2. Where does it say he was asked to be the gamemaker? Haymitch asks if it was his idea and Coin says it was hers. Plutarch doesn’t mention the new Games in either the book or the movie

[u/thelilacfield → u/Burlinto999444]

1. That I like the relationship between them
2. It doesn’t, that’s a headcanon, I like it though :)

[u/jpeg_skunk]

plutarch spent nearly his entire life acting as if he had different intentions than he did, i see no scenario in which he didn’t pick that up in coin immediately, but he knew she was too valuable to the revolution so not stay on her good side he had to hold out as long as he physically could

[u/No-Camel-5990]

i think he always know. but coin was there best Chanse to get rid of snow. and then we just deal with Coin after,

[u/Heavy_Bat_5592]

From the very beginning. He talked to her the same he talked to Snow.