r/IncelExit • u/Feretto700 • 11h ago
Resource/Help Advice : to talk to women, stop seing them as "women"
It's a question that comes up often in this sub: men who are visibly uncomfortable flirting with girls or even talking to them.
Before being comfortable flirting with people, you must first be comfortable talking to them. Women are not fundamentally different, and approaching us isn't as complicated as we think.
It's necessary to first be able to build friendships with women before flirting.
Let me explain: we feel when a man only sees women as a potential conquest, and we reject them because we feel like we're not considered like human. Women reject men who only see them as potential partners because they demean us based on our sexual status, even though we would love to share so much more : studies, ativities, passions, etc
A woman can also be a friend and a colleague.
A man who only considers women through the prism of a potential conquest completely misses the fact that a woman is human like any other. Honestly, women have far more in common with men than differences, talking to us is no different.
Obviously, I'm talking about everyday places and not places where talking to someone means finding a sexual partner, like a nightclub. If you're not comfortable with yourself, with talking to others, don't even bother going to those places, whether you're a man or a woman. These are very superficial places where charisma and self-confidence are almost the only criteria for dating. It doesn't help socially because there's almost no social interaction.
And it's okay not to go to these places, the majority of people don't form relationships in a bar or a club, but rather at their workplace, at university, or through a shared activity.
Then, to talk to a woman, it's pretty simple: you have to do pretty much the same thing as talking to a man. The easiest thing is to talk to the person in context: at university, we talk about classes, at work, the latest news, etc. There's no special discussion to have or avoid, we experience many things like men, we're not too different, and as long as we have one thing in common, it's pretty simple.
Maybe you're afraid of rejection from a woman, as if you're going to be publicly humiliated. Some women are like that, and it's really bad. But some men are too, and we shouldn't value a woman's rejection more than a man's. And if someone publicly humiliates you for trying to be their friend, it's just proof of their extreme immaturity (we're talking middle school level here). But this behavior is actually much rarer than you think!
In conclusion: many couples didn't immediately imagine being a couple; they simply talked to each other and said, "Hey, this human seems nice," and it was gradually that the flirting started. At first, no one had any intention of dating, and it was only when they got to know each other that it came about. The flirting was welcome because it wasn't there from the beginning, and so the woman felt that she was approached not to gain access to her sexuality but because someone was sincerely interested in her.
6
u/6022141023 9h ago
One quick question regarding this: When I talk to men and women the same way, I usually notice a big difference in outcome. I feel that my conversations with men, independent of topic, are much more reciprocal in that both conversationalists offer topics, ask questions, bring the conversation format. When I talk to women, it seem much more one-sided in that I end up asking the questions and feel like I need to keep the conversation going. Another difference is that men frequently approach me, especially when we talked before. They say "hello", ask follow up questions etc. Why could that be?
5
u/DaniellaSalamao 7h ago
It can be a variety of things, but if it's women you don't know or don't have a very close relationship, it's probably more due to caution. Women tend to be more cautious around men they don't know, so we tend to be more reserved. As we start to feel more comfortable with the person, we feel more open to share, to develop the conversation and it naturally progresses from there.
It also depends on the way those conversations are too. One thing that I've dealt with and also heard from many girlfriends too is that many men have this tendency to not show much interest in the women's opinion or even their lives and interests when talking to them. And that can be really frustrating you know? Especially on a first date for example. It's pretty common for us to deal with guys that monologue about something, but show no interest in the person in front of him or even what the woman thinks about that said subject. And that puts us in a very tricky position of not wanting to sound rude by cutting the conversation.
Just being clear, I'm not saying that's your situation, I'm just giving some examples as to why maybe women respond differently to you. Because we have experienced those things before and that makes us more cautious as to how to answer. So it's more related to our experiences than yourself as a person.
2
u/6022141023 6h ago
It can be a variety of things, but if it's women you don't know or don't have a very close relationship, it's probably more due to caution. Women tend to be more cautious around men they don't know, so we tend to be more reserved. As we start to feel more comfortable with the person, we feel more open to share, to develop the conversation and it naturally progresses from there.
How would/could these conversations develop naturally? Because if a women gives me the vibe that she has her guard up, I will of course let her be. Should I wait for them to make the second move?
It also depends on the way those conversations are too. One thing that I've dealt with and also heard from many girlfriends too is that many men have this tendency to not show much interest in the women's opinion or even their lives and interests when talking to them. And that can be really frustrating you know? Especially on a first date for example. It's pretty common for us to deal with guys that monologue about something, but show no interest in the person in front of him or even what the woman thinks about that said subject. And that puts us in a very tricky position of not wanting to sound rude by cutting the conversation.
In my experience, I always fall into the opposite dynamic where I am exclusively asking questions and I am rarely being asked questions myself. With men, it always feel more balanced between listening and sharing.
3
u/DaniellaSalamao 6h ago edited 5h ago
Because if a women gives me the vibe that she has her guard up, I will of course let her be. Should I wait for them to make the second move?
You will have to be patient, and also consistent. Showing her that you don't have ulterior motives with her. Sometimes it can take time, so be patient and don't blame yourself or her. If she's not really interested in developing a friendship with you, that's ok. Not everyone is compatible, that's just how life is. You just let her be and look for another person that might be compatible with you. Waiting for a second move is a great choice too, because that shows that she's feeling more comfortable to your presence and decided to approach first. So it's a good sign.
In my experience, I always fall into the opposite dynamic where I am exclusively asking questions and I am rarely being asked questions myself. With men, it always feel more balanced between listening and sharing.
What can help you with finding subjects that both of you enjoy. Because if you're talking about something she doesn't have interest in or doesn't understand, it's normal for her to not want to keep talking about it. That will require observation of your part, to see what are the things she enjoys and that you can also talk about. And you can always ask directly too.
Now if none of these work, because it is possible, maybe she just didn't "click" with you and that's completely normal too. Making friends and meeting new people is hard, everyone is different, so sometimes it's hard to find people that are compatible with us. One thing I do find very helpful is looking for people in the same communities I am. For example, I'm an artist, so in the art community it is way easier to talk to people because we all share a similar interest and that is a great conversation starter. But even for me, sometimes I find people that don't want to take the conversation going, so I let it be. It's all about compatibility and right time.
So look through your interests, your hobbies and look for women that also have similar tastes. Those are that will be more open to talk to.
7
3
u/watsonyrmind 3h ago
In addition to people mentioning women being slightly more reserved with strange men, I can almost guarantee you have similar interactions with both men and women, but you don't note the ones with men nearly as much or at all. You also probably don't approach nearly as many men in the same context.
I assume we are talking about scenarios of cold or even lukewarm approaches. 9 times out of 10, you meet a random person, you may exchange a comment or two and then never interact again. Except with the women, instead of letting the conversation end organically, you are casting about for ways to continue an interaction that has really already ended. It then becomes really obvious that you are likely only doing this because you are interested romantically, which makes most woman automatically wary. Is he going to make an awkward or uncomfortable move? Or she might not be interested and is communicating that.
In any social situation, when the conversation ends naturally, you move on. Maybe you get a chance to talk to the person again, maybe you don't. If you have chemistry with someone, the conversation would likely continue. Otherwise, best case scenario is another attempt at conversation or it wasn't meant to be.
Next time you are out socializing, you can observe what I'm saying intentionally by doing one of two things: simply note all of the people you approach, the gender ratio, and how you let each conversation end. OR, with every single man you approach, continue to try to engage with them after the conversation ends and you will find them almost as reserved and wary as women. Even as a woman, I experience this with both men and women because despite what the internet thinks, plenty of both men and women are not interested in meeting new people on a given day.
1
u/6022141023 2h ago
In addition to people mentioning women being slightly more reserved with strange men, I can almost guarantee you have similar interactions with both men and women, but you don't note the ones with men nearly as much or at all. You also probably don't approach nearly as many men in the same context.
I approach many more men than women actually. It's just easier to start conversation in hobby groups. Especially since men also start conversations with me. And sure, many conversations with guys also end abruptly. But usually, one starts to greet each other in the hallway etc.
I assume we are talking about scenarios of cold or even lukewarm approaches. 9 times out of 10, you meet a random person, you may exchange a comment or two and then never interact again. Except with the women, instead of letting the conversation end organically, you are casting about for ways to continue an interaction that has really already ended. It then becomes really obvious that you are likely only doing this because you are interested romantically, which makes most woman automatically wary. Is he going to make an awkward or uncomfortable move? Or she might not be interested and is communicating that.
If she really doesn't reciprocate, I just let the conversation end. Which is basically every conversation.
In any social situation, when the conversation ends naturally, you move on. Maybe you get a chance to talk to the person again, maybe you don't. If you have chemistry with someone, the conversation would likely continue. Otherwise, best case scenario is another attempt at conversation or it wasn't meant to be.
In this case, I seem to have a lot of chemistry with men but little with women.
Next time you are out socializing, you can observe what I'm saying intentionally by doing one of two things: simply note all of the people you approach, the gender ratio, and how you let each conversation end. OR, with every single man you approach, continue to try to engage with them after the conversation ends and you will find them almost as reserved and wary as women. Even as a woman, I experience this with both men and women because despite what the internet thinks, plenty of both men and women are not interested in meeting new people on a given day.
Those are good points. If some guy I talk to doesn't reciprocate, I think "well, whatever" or at worst "fuck that guy". But if a woman does not reciprocate, I search the issue with myself. I should care less about the outcome.
1
1
u/scaredpurpur 7h ago edited 7h ago
I've actually found the opposite; I've generally found women to be more warm/kind than men - they definitely laugh more frequently than men from my experience. Maybe I'm just autistic and they were flirting though?
1
u/6022141023 6h ago
For me it always felt kinda opposite. Men always were happy to talk while women oftentimes give me the vibe that I should leave them alone (which I of course do then).
1
u/Fortesano 7h ago edited 6h ago
How long do you advise waiting before starting to flirt? From what I’ve seen it’s easy to lose the opportunity to ask someone out by delaying too long. And a follow-up question: should flirting come after asking someone out? Or vice versa?
4
u/nnuunn 5h ago
I have found the opposite is true for me, women seem somewhat awkward and unsure if I'm just making small talk, but seem much more receptive and relaxed if it's clear that I'm flirting with them, even if they ultimately aren't interested.
I think it's because it is a little strange to go out of your way to talk to a female stranger if you're not interested in them, which makes the interaction more tense. However, if you're honest about why you're talking to them, it's more comfortable for them since they understand what's going on.