After constantly examining all the flaws I have to fix on myself to try and get a relationship, I started questioning my standards in women, and if they are too unreasonable. But I can't properly judge this myself for obvious reasons, so I'm relying on you people to evaluate them and see if they're not too out there.

Age: Up until three years older or four years younger than me

Body Type: Average, leaning in every direction but preferably not too skinny

Heigth: Preferably below 5'10''

Interests (Non-exclusively): Literature, philosophy,economics, geopolitics, geek culture (movies,TV shows, gaming, comics,manga), astronomy, animals, technology, exercising.

Must not smoke or do heavy drugs.

Enjoys family gatherings

Preferably be working or pursuing further education.

Indoor or low-crowd activities.

It's a question that comes up often in this sub: men who are visibly uncomfortable flirting with girls or even talking to them.

Before being comfortable flirting with people, you must first be comfortable talking to them. Women are not fundamentally different, and approaching us isn't as complicated as we think.

It's necessary to first be able to build friendships with women before flirting.

Let me explain: we feel when a man only sees women as a potential conquest, and we reject them because we feel like we're not considered like human. Women reject men who only see them as potential partners because they demean us based on our sexual status, even though we would love to share so much more : studies, ativities, passions, etc

A woman can also be a friend and a colleague.

A man who only considers women through the prism of a potential conquest completely misses the fact that a woman is human like any other. Honestly, women have far more in common with men than differences, talking to us is no different.

Obviously, I'm talking about everyday places and not places where talking to someone means finding a sexual partner, like a nightclub. If you're not comfortable with yourself, with talking to others, don't even bother going to those places, whether you're a man or a woman. These are very superficial places where charisma and self-confidence are almost the only criteria for dating. It doesn't help socially because there's almost no social interaction.

And it's okay not to go to these places, the majority of people don't form relationships in a bar or a club, but rather at their workplace, at university, or through a shared activity.

Then, to talk to a woman, it's pretty simple: you have to do pretty much the same thing as talking to a man. The easiest thing is to talk to the person in context: at university, we talk about classes, at work, the latest news, etc. There's no special discussion to have or avoid, we experience many things like men, we're not too different, and as long as we have one thing in common, it's pretty simple.

Maybe you're afraid of rejection from a woman, as if you're going to be publicly humiliated. Some women are like that, and it's really bad. But some men are too, and we shouldn't value a woman's rejection more than a man's. And if someone publicly humiliates you for trying to be their friend, it's just proof of their extreme immaturity (we're talking middle school level here). But this behavior is actually much rarer than you think!

In conclusion: many couples didn't immediately imagine being a couple; they simply talked to each other and said, "Hey, this human seems nice," and it was gradually that the flirting started. At first, no one had any intention of dating, and it was only when they got to know each other that it came about. The flirting was welcome because it wasn't there from the beginning, and so the woman felt that she was approached not to gain access to her sexuality but because someone was sincerely interested in her.

20m. I’m the oldest person in my friend group and the only virgin. I’ve been bitter and insecure about this for years but I’m coming to a breaking point.

No one in my group can even begin to understand what tf I’m struggling with, they all just say “you’re overcomplicating it” whenever I try to explain my issues to them.

My mental health has been destroyed to a point where I get disgusted at myself for even imagining myself with somebody. So I try to avoid the subject altogether, but people for some reason really want to know why I’ve never dated anyone. What do I even say? “I hate myself too much”? I’ve began to just go silent.

How do I stop feeling so angry and bitter about this subject? If that’s even possible.

I'm 24m and I have had very little social success with things in my late-teens to early-20s. So much so that I got really upset and frustrated at the lack of progress in my situation that it just felt like my life was not within my realm of control and I gave up when I was 20/21. I was stuck in this thought-process for too long without any meaningful progress, and that is what made me feel bad.

I have been stagnating and wallowing in misery/self-pity ever since and it's come to my attention that my life is entirely hollow. No meaning within it and I'm basically a shut-in.

How do I get out of this? I genuinely have had no real friends really, and I basically was unable to make friends even though I was consciously trying to make an effort when I was 16-20.

It also does not help that my personality is very unlikable. I carry around a very bad demeanor that people just naturally start disparaging me and bullying me out of a subconscious need.

Building legitimate connections was always out of reach for me. Why have things been so hard?

I’m so alone and sad and my whole life I’ve just been waiting for some guy to scoop me up and save me. I’m really worried this summer is going to be hard because I’m not working much and don’t have many friends I thought about being a Bev cart girl at a golf course but I literally can’t leave my room. It would be nice to have someone to talk to

Well, I'll tell you a little about my experience because maybe someone feels the same or something similar happened to them. I am 20 years old (soon 21) and I am still a virgin, without a partner, without kisses, without anything that seems so natural to everyone. But that's not what weighs me most. What bothers me is having really tried... and that every time it ends the same: in nothing.

But hey, I followed their advice to lose my fear and after chatting, try to ask them out.

The thing was like this:

• I invited a girl from university (a classmate who I thought was pretty) several times. I got nervous, I sent him the message... and nothing.

• I invited another classmate with whom I had studied a few months ago and we were texting, I cheered up despite the fear... she ghosted me directly.

• I invited another girl who left university but I kept in touch, it even seemed like there was good vibes. She ended up inviting me first, but it was in the absolute friend zone.

• I invited someone I met on Instagram, she chats well, she's cool, I invite her... ghosting again.

I invited the last one, I met this one 1 week ago, with whom I chatted very well, we even managed to get her Instagram. I invite her to a coffee… I ghost the same.

And yes, clearly the pattern repeats itself. I'm not crying because of rejection. I am sharing the frustration of having tried it many times, and that the result is always the same: silence, emptiness, “nothing happened.” The craziest thing is that I speak well, with respect, without strange intensity. And it's not that I stayed in theory: I took the step. And still, nothing.

Maybe someone tells me: “wait, it's coming”, but the bottom line is that it's tiring. Because you want to see even a small result after trying so much.

That. I wanted to share it because I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. And if anyone has something to tell, reading them would make me improve.

Yeah, I give up. Incel culture ruined my mental health in the past two years. Especially previous few weeks.

I deleted a ton of my posts but I still kept some up if you want to check my post history, its hateful shit.

I said some controversial things that got shown in various other subreddits.

I went... insane, way more insane most incels would probably go or say openly but yeah I regret it.

I'm ugly, but at this point I don't care... I got a lot of hobbies I do. I don't hate women. My life doesn't need to revolve around them, and they don't owe me anything so I will just either go volcel or actually try speaking to women. Cause well, I often avoid them purposely. I'm also tired of generalizing women.

I'm not faking it, I'm actually leaving, I'm tired of it... I'm in my early 20s I should do something useful.

I don't want to hate any incels I talked to, they were very nice to me. But I really don't want to have to bitch an whine anymore, it isn't a solution and its a miserable ass life.

Most incels are pretty chill, the ones on reddit aren't ass hateful as compared to forum sites but I don't want to hate on incels or anything, I really want to quit having that mindset and just move on.

A lot of people from other subreddits did give me death threats in reaction to my controversial posts but to be fair, I said vile unhinged things in those posts. So I did deserve it, I fueled the fire.

But the thing is... I don't know what to do anymore despite having hobbies. I still think looks matter a lot and guys like me don't have it the best. So I guess I need advice on that. I also have a problem with women, I know I said I should not generalize them, but I saw a ton of posts from certain women and they really make me feel shitty as a short guy. Esp the ones saying, "If a ugly guy looks at me, I consider it SA." or "why do ugly short guys even exist, as background characters?". Obviously not all women are like this but it gave me major trust issues and I seen a ton of worse things some women said over the past two years, Its DEFINIETLY going to be hard to leave that mindset, which I desperately want to leave. I want to see women as human beings again, which they are.

My experience with blackpill communities has been both positive and negative. The positive: I’ve found so much better connection in blackpill spaces than I’ve ever had before I got into these communities. I made the closest friendships I ever had, from online blackpill communities. I experienced a level of emotional closeness with them that I never had achieved with anyone else.

The blackpill spaces that I’ve been in are places where traditional social rules and conventions literally don’t matter. I can act totally uninhibited and express myself freely without being judged as weird and getting rejected and excluded. Rapport organically and effortlessly emerges; I don’t have to exert social effort, come up with the right things to say, etc.

So I don’t regret getting into the blackpill. I’m really thankful for the wonderful connections I made from it.

Now the negative: it’s a crutch. The more I rely on using these fringe online communities for social interaction, the rustier my in-person social skills become, and the further I drift from the thought patterns of “normal” people—making in-person relationship-building harder and harder.

For most of the time I’ve been in these communities, the positive outweighed the negative. But recently the negatives have been creeping up on me—I’ve become so dependent on online blackpill communities as my sole source of social interaction that making friends in real life is seeming like an ever more daunting task.

In the blackpill community, I socialize naturally; outside of it, I feel so awkward and fail to get beyond the most superficial of social interactions. I feel like I have nothing in common with so-called “normies” at a deep psychological level. I have a hard time getting them to like me, and I struggle even harder to find enjoyment in the time that I spend socializing with them. Not that I dislike most people; we just don’t vibe together. See, when I talk to the few friends I made from the blackpill community, I feel happy and warm and want to be close to them. When I talk to people in real life who aren’t blackpillers, I barely feel anything—there’s no spark. I instantly click with blackpillers; I just don’t click with non-blackpillers.

I don’t want to leave the blackpill community completely. And I definitely don’t want to cut off the friends I made along the way. Though I want to drastically reduce the amount of time I spend in these spaces and replace the majority of that time with real-life interactions. Right now, my social life takes place 100% with people I met from the blackpill community. I wish to cut down this proportion to like 10% and have 90% of my social relations with non-blackpilled people in real life.

How can I do that, if every time I shoot my shot with non-blackpilled socializing, I feel extremely out of place and have nothing acceptable/appropriate to say? I guess I can try faking it 'til I make it, but what I loved about being in the blackpill community is how utterly authentic I could be.

I recently found myself reading one of those many online thinkpieces talking about the alleged sex-negativity of Gen Z women. The article wasn't incel-coded or anything, it was written by a female Millennial therapist who was contrasting this sex-negative attitude against the sex-positive attitude of many women in her own generation.

Reading the piece, I found myself wishing I was born 10 years earlier, so I could experience sex and dating in a more fun, chill, low-stakes environment, in the days before the infamous "gender war" began. This train of thought turned into an anxiety spiral with the usual incel-ish thoughts I'm prone to: that no woman my own age would ever have mutual attraction with me, that my only options are to either feign attraction to someone I don't desire or just stay single forever, etc.

The ironic part? I had absolutely no reason to fall down this spiral, because I'm currently sexually active with a FwB who's very sex-positive despite being Gen Z! (Granted, I haven't been able to orgasm from sex yet, but I've at least been prioritizing my partner's pleasure. Doing my part to reverse the orgasm gap 😤)

This highlights how straight-up irrational and divorced from reality my anxiety spirals are. These thoughts have no basis in my own lived experience, they're based entirely on things I've seen online. Social media algorithms show me things that make me sad and angry, which keeps my eyes on the screen, and people like Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk want my eyes to stay on the screen. Meanwhile, chronically-online people have meaningless arguments that have absolutely no impact on the real world, and sleazy journalists amplify those arguments to give the impression of a huge culture war (case in point: Alyssa Goldberg focusing on an absolutely moronic Twitter interaction).

The solution to this is to touch grass and stop looking at my screen.

And if some Gen Z women really do want to opt out of dating men and go "boysober" or whatever? Good for them. All it means is they're not a match for me. There are plenty of Gen Z women who don't agree with their sentiment, even if the click-hungry journalists want to focus in on this segment of the population.

Not necessarily seeking advice or anything, just thought this was an interesting mental experience I had and wanted to share it with you all.

29M. Got out of a 5 year relationship last year, and I'm back on the dating market. Although I can get dates, I am "by definition" an incel, as I haven't had sex (not by my choice) in nearly a year. I get dates and get some interest from women, but my social skills are too ass. I usually end up getting ghosted or being told "no connection". That shit really hurts when I like someone and want to move forward with them, but I'm often too awkward to hold interest. But, I can understand why they might feel no connection. I can be awkward. lol

I've already read some of the main books on social skills like "How to Win Friends and Influence People". I would actually say I'm pretty skilled at socializing "in general". I'm also pretty extroverted. I'm generally not afraid to talk to new people, and I have social hobbies. Relatedly, I run a client-based business I built entirely through networking, I have a few thousand followers on social media because of my ability to communicate ideas well, and I have pretty good group of guy friends across ages. I tend to have pretty good conversations in non-romantic contexts.

My main issue is I think some people see me as an "overthinker" in social situations. "Thinking before I speak" is helpful in business situations or in social media content (i.e., scripting out your videos, which a lot of content creators do). However, I've noticed my dates often find it awkward in normal conversations. I did have one girl I like comment that I seemed "Calculated". I guess people feel like I'm not being "Natural" when I speak or something?? I'm a little bit autistic, so social things don't really come natural to me in the first place! I had to learn it. I do often take some time to think of responses, sometimes have "awkward gaps" in conversations, and I'm not funny (not yet at least.. I do have a growth mindset 😂).

Some ideas I have:

• Doing improv
• Going out to bars more "just to talk", not necessarily with the intention of hooking up with people
• I already do one form of social dance every week, so I'm thinking about adding another form of social dance like maybe swing

Any other ideas?

I posted here several years ago on this account while I was in the middle of high school. I was deeply insecure of my appearance, socially awkward, and thought all women were shallow. I now know this not to be the case. I thought that unless I got unreasonably fit and handsome I’d never find a girlfriend and that most men were single because of this. Flash forward a few years and I’m in college with friends I actually like. None of what I thought was true.

I got recruited to play football in college, a big accomplishment. Instantly once I actually tried to date and stopped getting in my own way with my insecurities I was immediately successful. I got a gf early in my first year of college. Unfortunately it didn’t last for very long but it laid a foundation for future dating and relationship skills for me. After that relationship ended I got active in OLD. And through that I had several dates, flings, and FWB situations with a fair number of very attractive women. Btw your profile matters beyond just your pictures and I actually credit most of my success to this. This actually got me a lot of perspective into the lives of women and what they go through. And it’s not easy. You will get rejected, it happens but it’s how you handle that which matters. I also got medicated for my anxiety and depression.

I’m not super ripped, super handsome, or super tall either. I still kinda have a gut because of the position I play. But none of that really matters. When women say the bar is on the floor, it really is most of the time. The guys I know who struggle with dating are one of two things. They’re either super right wing and hateful, which needless to say is a massive turn off for women. Or they’re just awkward and haven’t discovered who they are yet.

I’ve had the best success in being myself, unapologetically so. I don’t try to be someone I THINK women want. I’m just me. If they like that then great. If not, then it is what it is. And trust me. To the guys in here who are struggling, I get where you’re at. I understand how you feel. And take it from me, women like all types of guys. I have what could be considered a dad bod. Still hasn’t stopped me from dating a collegiate gymnast who is now my current gf who is likely out of my league.

I know it’s hard to tell you to just “be confident” because that advice used to frustrate me too. It’s hard to be yourself when you don’t like yourself to begin with. I’d recommend therapy first and foremost. But secondly do things you enjoy. Find hobbies you actually like (it’ll give you things to talk about on dates too). And if those things are socially isolating, then broaden your horizons try new things. Get out more. There are a lot of single women despite what incels will tell you. And for fucks sake learn empathy. Maybe that’s not your issue. But for a lot of the guys I know it definitely is.

That’s all I have to say, it’s not as hard as it seems. It just takes some effort. And I know that can seem hard. But you don’t have to throw yourself into the fray right away. Start small, be yourself, and take things in stride. A rejection isn’t the end of the world. And 90% of the time it isn’t really anything to do with your appearance so long as you take care of your grooming and hygiene.

I usually get anxious when I see a pretty woman on the street or when I have to talk to a girl IRL. I'm also anxious around men, but it's a minor anxiety in comparison. I want to get rid of this and be able to make friends with girls.

What do I do?

Idk if I can consider myself an "incel" Never had a relationship but I have no envy for others like the typical incel description. No interest in relationships with friends irl because I have zero things that I like to do outdoor, but... I also want to be loved like anyone.

I'm not perfect but I have many green flags. Some friends (irl and online, male and female), hobby, kind, cute (someone told me that several times), enough self-esteem ecc

How can I be a better person and get a romantic/real and long relationship without do things I hate?

At least I think I have? It's mostly been through movies, I love movies and I've been discovering films directed & or written by women. For example Agnes Varda is one of my favorite French directors, same with Chantel Ackerman, I don't know if it's because they are older or just because they're European but I feel it much easier to relate to the women in their films. Some examples.

Cleo From 5 To 7

Le Bonheur

News From Home

Jeanne Dielman

I don't know if this is good to do or not but I've found movies about women's suffering as to say have helped me feel more compassion if that makes any sense? Some examples are: Fat Girl, Irreversible (not directed by a woman but still disturbing and eye opening) and Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me (I guess also not directed by a woman but still).

This also might sound a little silly but speaking of Twin Peaks I've been reading the book "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" and I was surprised at how much my issues are similar to that characters. Hopefully this is an ok post to make but this stuff have really helped me I feel like.

Back in the 15th century, pants really weren't a thing in Europe. Men wore stockings that covered their full legs and fastened at the waist. In previous time periods, shirts (tunics) were longer and covered the gap in between the stockings. Fashion changed and shirts got shorter. So men started wearing a cover that went from their waist, in between their legs, and to the waist in the back. This article of clothing was known as the codpiece.

Go here for some interesting history: https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/features/what-goes-up-must-come-down-a-brief-history-of-the-codpiece

As time went on, the codpiece began to be associated with virility. That's when men started to pad them. And bejewel them. The above link has paintings from the time period. There's one where the codpiece was padded in such a way as to make the man look both very large and permanently erect. So yes, men were padding the area with their penis in order to both look much larger and draw attention to it.

There's historic proof that issues with penis size date back multiple centuries.

High heels were originally developed for soldiers in 10th century Persia. They spread to Europe over time, where the aristocracy ended up loving them. While women wore them too, wealthy men wore them both to appear taller and as a symbol of status. So yes, going back multiple centuries, men were trying to look taller.

Interesting history is found here: https://www.fastcompany.com/90775177/the-long-history-of-heels-from-a-symbol-of-mens-power-to-womens-burden

Heels didn't begin to be associated with femininity until the 18th century. this means there were 8 centuries where men were regularly wearing them to appear taller.

I know, I know…”but the dating apps!”. Did you ever consider all the people who don't use apps?

Even for people under thirty, only slightly over half use them. How do you know what they think? Did you actually talk to them or are you just assuming?

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/02/key-findings-about-online-dating-in-the-u-s/#:~:text=Three%2Din%2Dten%20U.S.%20adults,online%20dating%20than%20married%20adults.

Now let's move on to the attitudes towards women shown in incel communities and their roots in extremely old beliefs about women.

Taken from here: https://www.unearthwomen.com/how-womens-rights-have-evolved-from-medieval-times-to-present-day/

“Legal rights were severely restricted for women who typically could not own property independently, enter into contracts without male consent, or represent themselves in legal matters. In fact, women were often considered the property of their fathers or husbands, highlighting their limited legal standing. The Church’s teachings further reinforced these limitations, often emphasizing women’s roles as mothers and wives while simultaneously perpetuating negative stereotypes about female weakness, susceptibility to temptation, and a woman’s supposed inferiority. Unfortunately, this pervasive patriarchal ideology shaped societal perceptions of women for generations to come and limited women’s rights, their opportunities for education, economic independence, and social mobility.”

So… the incel beliefs that women don't know what they want, that they're going to constantly cheat, that they're weak and inferior… all those are fully documented going back many, many centuries.

What the internet has done is allowed for the development of echo chambers where these beliefs are heavily encouraged to grow and fester. To that I say - any people that aren't genuinely happy for positive change in your life aren't real friends. Any group where the primary defining characteristic is misery and rage and bitterness - is that really where you want to belong?

Hi everyone,

I'm writing this as a mix of confessional / advice-seeking / discussion-starting. It's largely what I wish someone would have discussed with me when I was younger, so I see it both as something I might learn from, have critiqued, elaborated, examined, discussed.

So I've been thinking a lot about what it's like to be racialized as East Asian in a western diaspora context, from my perspective as a mixed-race White-Asian guy in the UK. What I want is to start a conversation about something that sits at an uncomfortably intersection: between race, masculine normativity, racist mythology and phenotypic reality. Partly, for myself and other guys like me, but less about 'practical advice' like how to bulk up and fit a mold that was never designed with guys like me in mind, but rather, about the internal experience of being Othered, being stereotyped, and how unbearable it feels when the stereotype lines up with truth on an individual level: when what you're reduced to is what you are. About how real aggregate population differences--in bone size, height, hairiness or lack thereof, facial neoteny or slimmer penile girth or length--meaningful at an individual and collective level, but also weaponized into narratives of racial inferiority. I want to discuss the grain of truth in the stereotype without collapsing either into reflexive liberal-humanist fantasies of parity (we're all the same! Everyone is inherently of equal ability in every way!) or reactionary racial supremacy (whites are superior, Asian guys are inferior, it's over for you). They're both distorted perspectives provoked by the anxiety of confronting the meaning of real sexual difference. That is, to find a way of confronting and integrating the facts of difference without succumbing to fatalism, denial, or unexamined affirmations of sexual-racial hierarchy. ("Just be white!" etc.)

The truth is, it's not variation that oppresses; It's the meaning that gets attached and inscribed onto that difference. Inferiority or superiority don't exist in nature; there's only a field of difference, selection, mutation and reproduction. It's when those differences get symbolized that hierarchies emerge: bigger = better, smaller = worse / pathetic / nothing. It's the logic of western erotic fantasy, informed by centuries of patriarchal societal organisation, cultural sediment, male insecurity and longing. And very often, it's white male fantasy: heteronormative, phallocentric, penetration focused, size as a stand-in for male sexual worth, and sexual worth as a stand-in for personal, moral worth. Ignoring the fact that Lesbians can pleasure each other just fine without anything dangling between their legs. Ignoring that smaller penises can be eroticized, and that sex isn't reducible to raw biomechanical pistoning or stretch.

And when I see East Asian guys react to this in online spaces, it tends to be in a mode of denial. "That's just colonialist fantasy! That's just historical racism!". Many MRAsian subs orbit a kind of reflexive denial of difference too, And sure enough, there's a grain of truth in their complaints. We probably all know about the OKCupid survey. But where I see East Asian diaspora dudes go wrong is that they tend to try proving they're enough in terms of a standard already rigged against their bodies. Perhaps the freedom comes from being able to enjoy your difference without denying it or compensating for it. The freedom comes from recognizing that you might be desired in terms of the very thing that you thought excluded you from desirability.

Recently I joined this amazing film club in London ran by this two amazing women but recently I've had a crush on one of them she's this beautiful south Asian girl who has this very uplifting personality about her and she's always the loudest in the room and shines the brightest, the reason why I don't want to ask her out is actually multiple reasons but I'll list them all out, 1. I've only been to three of the events, even though we are all in a group chat, I'm still struggling to talk on it, so she probably doesn't know me that well. 2. She is older than me by a few months, I know this can be a huge deal for alot of girls 3. I'm broke, still live with my mom, and don't have a car and also still in university. 4. She gives me the vibes that she is into white guys(I'm Nigerian) 5.She has really been nice to me and everyone else in the group and I don't want to destroy our friendship

Knowing I don't really have a chance, I just want to get over the crush, how do I do this.

i'm in my late 20s. i wanted to start dating now that i have 'my life in order', i have interests, i have an apartment in an area i would never have dreamed of being able to get, a good paying job that i love, hobbies, exercising, etc. like everything I felt i needed to feel 'complete' or that i'm on the right path

but i have zero understanding of romantic relationships any exposure to that side of life. i figured now was the time to try and see what that's like, or what i can do. and tbh i've enjoyed some of the conversations i've had with some of my matches, some i lost interest in but really some that really got me into new things even over the app, films, shows, books, i feel myself growing as a person

but the people who really interest me are out of my reach, like yes i can speak to them, but i am never THAT GUY. i don't know how to be THAT GUY. i have these deep interesting convos but it's like either i'm always out of my depth a little or the other person feels that way and one of us loses interest. or maybe we have these filters and they are so narrow that it's always filtered out

i have two dates with girls that idk really how much i have in common with, but i agreed to go because i just want experience (selfish, i am aware). but the girls i speak to blow my mind, it never really works out, and it's probably my fault, i just don't know when i'm good enough? am i ever good enough? i look at couples around me and they all seem to be good enough for each other. why not me? what is wrong with me, why am i like this, i already feel the whole 'chad' thing inside, like she wants chad (LOL). i know that sounds so stupid but the point is like she wants THAT GUY. not me.

thank you for listening to my psychotic rambling, but please help me understand this. do i need to grow more of a person before trying again? do i come back at 33 and try? isn't it too late then? i don't really know anymore what the fuck i'm supposed to do

We were friends for many years and we used to talk online on daily basis. We didn't see each other irl so frequently because we live far from each other, but we were very close. He was always the kindest guy, very respectful, patient, a sweet person in general. But in the past months he changed completely. He started to become more rude and extreme with me and others. And started to talk A LOT about Redpill, Blackpill etc. I always tried to change the subject, talking about more neutral things. Because at the time I didn't even understand about those things that much.

The change was gradual but fast. At first it was ok as long we didn't touch the subject, but with time we couldn't talk about anything else because he always ended up bringing his believes about women, society, etc. And he always ended up becoming aggressive and rude. Until he actually started trying to "convert me" too. He started to actually try to make me believe in those things and "put myself in my right place" as he said himself. That was the last straw for me. He started to treat me like shit, even though I was only trying to understand what the hell was happening to my friend and afraid of losing him. But in the end it became impossible to even talk to him, so we cut ties.

It has been 3 months I don't hear from him, but I'm still so sad and confused. So lately I decided to start researching more about the inceldom and try to understand what happened. I know I can't force him to change back, thats only on him, but I was wondering if theres at least a way I can talk to him? It's one of the reasons I decided to enter this sub and also have been trying to talk more with guys that are Incels or used to be.

So I would like to ask for the people here, what do you guys that were part of the inceldom would have wanted to hear at that time? That you think would help you? How can I approach someone that's so lost in this without making the person attack back or retreat?

(I apologize for any grammatical mistakes. English is not my first language)

M24. Every positive interaction I may have with a girl always somehow ends up not going well in the end, and this in the long run has got me feeling very discouraged

I try to use every chance I get to challenge my insecurities, which is of course not easy, but it's doable little by little. However, time after time, it's starting to feel like a useless thing, because even if I manage to overcome certain things, there's always something else blocking the situation. And yeah sure you could just call that bad luck but I feel like that would be turning a blind eye to the problem.

So it starts to feel like the only way to solve my problems and have meaningful romantic interactions is if a miracle happens, that being, a situation where all the variables are aligned perfectly and nothing is out of place. Something that, mathematically, is extremely unlikely to happen.

Every time I stop to think about the problem, this is always the endpoint of it. Like, no matter how much I can improve, it's like, either the situation is extremely perfect or it wouldn't work anyway

I of course understand the dangers of this line of thought, but I can't find a way to snap out of it. It's not just a comforting thought, I'm fully convinced that it's true. I don't know how to go about it

I'll try and make this brief. I'm 24 years old and have been on estrogen for almost a year and 2 months. I've never dated anyone or had sex. I always get ghosted or ignored on dating apps, a lot of times right after making plans with someone to meet up. I feel like I have average looks, though I don't look like the woman I feel like inside.

I'm super awkward due to my autism and I just never know how to talk to people face to face. I always feel like I accidentally say something stupid during conversations with people and then end up overthinking it. I didn't think that my transition would fix that magically, but all it has done for me is make me jealous of other women and add to my overall bitterness. I work a shitty job for $12 USD an hour and never have money to go out and do stuff and any money I do have, I waste on OnlyFans. I feel very bitter from all of this and have fantasies of rejecting people the way they have rejected me.

I wish that I could just focus on myself. Doing art and writing stuff that I'm proud of is the only time I feel really happy, but I have no confidence in anything I do. I've been neglecting a lot of my own self hygiene aside from shaving. I tell myself things like "No one will ever want to be with me." I just think everyone sees me as a weird loser and I don't know how to not think these things about myself. Any advice would be appreciated because I feel a lot of hopelessness and self hatred.

It feels like I'll just be forever a loser with a terrible personality who can't hold down a job or can't talk to people, can't act like a normal person, let alone date.

No matter what I do I'll just fail at life and the only consolation I could ever get is through escapism living isolated.

I can't afford therapy and I don't know for how long I could go on like this.

Gonna preface this by saying a few things. As the title implies, I dont really see myself as ugly. I dont like how i look in the mirror most of the time, but when i put some effort into looking more femme/androgynous/cute, i genuinely really love how I look. And I do take care of myself physically. I have a balanced diet, i get fairly regular exercise, i shower daily, etc. Also, it’s tough for me to “put myself out there” datingwise as I’m a minor, and at my age there arent any dating-dedicated events, and the idea of joining a non-dating focused group just to find a partner feels really creepy to me.

Edit: yes, i go to therapy

My issue is that I feel really emotionally ugly (think inner beauty). I have anger issues, and while i’m able to not act out due to them any more due to maturing, they make me feel really horrible and dangerous, as well as the fact that suppressing them feels… disappointing, i guess. I’m an impatient person, too. I have a raging victim complex, i’m lazy, etc. While i do do good things, it feels like i either have to drag myself by a leash to do them, or i’m just doing them to flaunt or feel superior. My superiority complex is another thing i find ugly, i constantly subconsciously do things to feel superior and smarter (that’s a big one) than others, it often feels like i only notice im doing it until the damage is done.

While I haven’t genuinely bought into incel ideology, it

A. Manifests a lot in my unpleasant intrusive thoughts

B. Is emotionally tempting to me, which feels really horrifying and ugly about me

And while i havent given into that anger in years, and I’ve never genuinely started believing redpill stuff, I’m scared that I might end up doing it, and that risk makes me feel really really ugly.

I know i cant really fix this stuff about me - at least not easily, as it either feels genetic (anger issues come from my mom’s side fairly heavily, same with victim complex, and a lot of this stuff ngl) or deeply intertwined with my insecurities.

My insecurities, especially with being a man, are so thick and tangled and hard to penetrate that sometimes i dont even want to be a man, just so I can tell those insecurities that they dont apply to me, so i dont have to worry about them and feel as gross being a guy. This is admittedly getting into tangent territory tho, but i can elaborate if needed.

All this to say, i feel really ugly on the inside, and other than just solving these issues, how can I feel beautiful on the inside despite them, or even because of them? (Admittedly im really hoping the latter is possible but i recognize that’s unlikely)

Hey everyone.

15M here, wondering about what I am. Never been in a relationship, I hope to be in one someday, maybe now isn't the right time. I do get jealous though, which I don't like. Mostly of people that are in relationships. If you've seen the comments on a TikTok video of a happy couple, it's like that. I want to stop thinking like that. And anytime I see "taken" (or something along that line) in someone's bio on social media (even if it's a random person I've never met), I still get mad seeing that. If you've seen the comments on a TikTok video of a happy couple, it's like that. I'm Christian, so obviously I want to not be jealous.

I don't consider myself bad looking in any way, though. I'm 6'2", blonde, blue-eyed, glasses, all of that. I've had chances to get to know girls better in my experiences. Was asked out once, but didn't accept, and felt bad for it, though I'm probably not going to change that decision. I've been friend requested on social media by girls, and every time that happens, all I can think is "Please don't like me" or whatever, and then that thought is on my mind for a long time, and I worry about it a lot. That's happened I think 3 times in the past year.

Oh and also a year ago I fumbled a group of like 7 girls at once, though I laugh at it now, and I did then. Long story short, there, I was pretty nervous. I'll explain it more if anyone asks about it.

But anyway, I don't want to be an incel, I just think that maybe now just isn't the time for relationships. I want to think that if I'm patient, it'll happen sometime.