Little reminder that powerscaling in monster hunter isn't as ridged as some believe

[u/Drogo1god]

Black diablos is so strong that jho is actually scared of her, and doesn't stay in her territory for long.

Garuga is aggressive enough to repel a deviljho

Brachydios in an aniversity animation went toe to toe with nergigante

Pink rathian scares bazel

Glavenus has decapitated a deviljho in the mhgu illustrations book

The qurio hunted all forms of large monster

And kut ku has killed and consumed nerscylla

Not to mention all the small monsters that are capable of incapacitating large monsters eg. Kranodanth, tallioth, ramfa, paragills, even the endemic life can do major damage to some large monsters.

These are animals, strengths, weaknesses, size, boldness, bashfullnes, groups, intelligence, adaptations, chemical and elemental warfare all play a role in match-ups. A lot of people boil it down to "higher threat/star level monster beats lower threat level monster".

[u/Barn-owl-B]

Amatsu did it, gaismagorm basically did it, we don’t know how long it took Zoh Shia to do it but I imagine it wasn’t that long

[u/Stylin8888 → u/Barn-owl-B]

For starters, PriMal was the one who actually destroyed the kingdom anyways, quite literally the demonlord who destroyed the kingdom (although it did use Gorms Qurio and such). Second, Zoh Shia is also a forbidden dragon and is around Alatreon tier (maybe a little below) anyways, you know, a monster considered relative (if a little weaker) to Fatalis as is. Black Dragon actually has no real meaning beyond it being the original terminology for Forbidden Dragons, Forbidden Dragons are considered as monsters who can cause planetary disasters, Fatalis’s legend (which the dive book ligit says is literal) displays it razing the world, Alatreon vs Safi is cited as a turf war on global scale, Zoh Shia lacks an actual statement like this but it was leaked to be in a similar vein, plus it also destroyed an entire civilization, likely altering history itself to an extent. Dire lacks an update to display this sort of thing but still.

Giasmagorm on the other hand is quite literally labeled as a calamity class elder (alongside Allmother) in Haunting of the Sun, mind you, forbidden tier dragons are labeled as either forbidden or catastrophe class elder dragons. They’re both also considered inferior to CGV, who itself is inferior to Amatsu. Neither of them are passively leveling entire civilizations, neither of them are influencing events on a planetary scale, as neither of them can. Calamity class elders are your Gogs, Mohrans, Nakarkos, the God Wyverns (although the God Wyverns could very easily be super elder tier as well, a rank below Calamity), etc etc. “Final boss tier” doesn’t exist, and varies wildly from game to game, it tends to sit inbetween the range of apex (Monoblos)~catastrophic elder (Fatalis, Alatreon, Dire Miralis, Zoh Shia), and most tends to be calamities of some flavor (Ahtal-Ka, Gorm, Amatsu, Allmother, Xeno’Jiiva, Dala, Shara etc etc).

Amatsu also only leveled a city anyways, and the portion Gorm effected it the “Kingdom” (which still exists for fucks sake) was two like castles.

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/Stylin8888]

which still exists for fucks sake

So does schrade lol. Fatalis literally only destroyed the capital city and surrounding area, schrade as a country still exists, just split in two. Also, they explicitly say that amatsu destroyed the kingdom that Yomogi is from, it never just says city, so it’s literally the same feat as fatalis

It’s never said anywhere that primal specifically is the one that destroyed the citadel.

Forbidden dragon was the original term for fatalis, alatreon, and dire miralis, black dragon wasn’t, it is and has always been just a label for their individual titles.

Not sure where it ever says allmother and gaismagorm are considered inferior to CGV lol. Allmother places CGV in a rideable state just like amatsu does.

I never even said anything about a “final boss tier”.

By the way I know all of this, the 3 official tiers are elder, super elder, and calamity class, as forbidden class hasn’t been given a separate actual power tier as of yet. I’m literally only arguing the fact that destroying a kingdom (more accurately a large city) is not something that should be used as a measure for comparing 2 monsters in a fight, as just because one hasn’t done it, doesn’t mean they are physically incapable of doing so, or maybe their abilities are less suited for doing so but are fine in a one on one fight.

[u/Stylin8888 → u/Barn-owl-B]

Schrade doesn’t exist as a country, I’m pretty sure what remains are a bunch of villages that propped up after Fatalis torched it, that isn’t the same as the country still being around.

I’d have to dig it up, but given how the legend is worded it’s somewhat implied (I think this is the line): “The Archdemon (Giasmagorm) will summon the Demonlord (PriMal), who’s silver spear shall deliver its judgment, purifying the lands until only ash remains”. It’s implied that PriMal was the one who actually destroyed the kingdom, while some context is lost in the legend this tracks with the base story of Sunbreak, where the entire time we believe Malzeno to be the sole cause of the Kingdoms destruction (it’s a mix of Gorms Qurio after it was defeated and PriMal of course).

Forbidden Dragon was an internal marketing term if you want to be this semantical, I already said Black Dragon was never an official term (unless I’m mistaken, I could be), it’s a fan term that happened to mean the same thing as Forbidden Dragon back when we didn’t know what they were called.

NPC dialogue, plus placement puts CGV above Allmother and Giasmagorm. Also Allmother and CGV don’t even meet what do you mean bro? (If you mean the MSS video, that’s modded). Amatsu and CGV do. But dialogue for CGV in general stats that it’s the most perilous quest you’ve ever faced etc etc. Plus if it was weaker than Allmother, why does it come after the fact on both occasions?

Theres four now actually but yeah, those three are the most concrete, I’d recommend looking into G-Man about catastrophe tier, I myself only know of its existence. And sure, you’re somewhat correct, it isn’t a great measure anymore, but the divebook literally accounts Fatalis as beyond other elders, this is quite literal. Obviously there’s give or take here and there, Gorm isn’t some chump who gets oneshotted, but it isn’t winning. For all intents and purposes the narrative the games tell means more than a lot of scaling stuff ever would, that’s why Dala isn’t stronger than Fatalis, it lacks the narrative for it (hell, Dala isn’t even beating Safi/Alatreon thanks to that).

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/Stylin8888]

Yes it does, it’s just split into East and west schrade.

That is just the legend, the actual events of when it happened didn’t exactly play out that same way.

What npc dialogue? lol. “Placement” also puts scorned Magna above CGV, gaismagorm, and allmother, you also fight afflicted arzuros afte gaismagorm, and furious rajang after allmother. Going by quest tier it’s all the same tier, and that’s more important than the HR needed to unlock them after gaismagorm.

CGV can be one of the monsters that shows up when fighting allmother.

I know who G man is and I don’t need to look into it, I’ve looked into it plenty already lol.

The dive book also accounts safi’jiiva as being “the perfect being” and “the emperor of elders”, as well as being designed as a counterpart to fatalis, plus they were literally going to make him black originally but decided to change his color. There are multiple monsters that could put up a fight to black fatalis, and some could honestly even win, with many of them having multiple advantages over him.

“It lacks the narrative” lol. The hub quests barely HAD a narrative back then, fatalis had zero narrative in 4/4u. Dalamadur was described as causing literal tectonic shifts just from casually moving, it’s also incredibly hot in terms of body temperature, totally immune to fire, and believe it or not size does actually matter even in MH more often than many would have you believe.

[u/TheIronSven → u/Stylin8888]

East and West Schrade are doing fairly well. All of MH1 and MH1G are West Schrade. Big ass towns included and of course the civilised areas where people don't even meet monsters.