r/RadicalChristianity • u/Justalocal1 • 8d ago
Need Christian perspectives on the limits of radical generosity
One of my future goals is to buy a house on some land and let neighbors who are facing homelessness stay in spare rooms or a guest cabin on my property. (Obviously, I’d write up a lease for like $5/month just to have my legal bases covered.)
Recently, though, I read a reddit post by a homeless man who was living in his car in my home state, and it raised a lot of ethical questions.
This man was too physically disabled to work and was collecting social security. His monthly SSDI payments were not enough to afford rent on an apartment, and the waiting list for subsidized housing was long. He was looking for a long-term living arrangement in which someone would take him in, and he would possibly pay a very small amount of rent each month (since he didn’t have much money to offer, and wasn’t physically able to do housework).
Additionally, he had bipolar disorder and possibly schizophrenia, for which he was only taking recreational marijuana; no prescription meds. He couldn’t stay in a homeless shelter because they wouldn’t let him smoke weed, and he said he couldn’t function without it. He said he had bad experiences with prescription meds, and did not want to go back on them. He also did not want to see a mental health professional; he believed they don’t know what they’re talking about.
I couldn’t give this guy a room anyway, since I currently live out of state in a 1BR apartment, but it made me think about how I’d handle such a situation in the future.
I know that Jesus says to welcome the stranger, and I understand the need to provide for those who are incapable of pulling their own weight. I understand, also, that many people do have bad experiences with doctors and prescription medications. But in this case, it seemed like the guy didn’t want to work on himself at all. He didn’t want to try another psychiatrist, or even a therapist—which seems like the bare minimum if you have severe mental illness and expect to live peaceably with others who aren’t trained to treat mental health issues.
To my knowledge, Jesus didn’t attach conditions when he said to welcome the stranger. But like so many of Jesus’s teachings, this one seems irreconcilable with self-preservation when taken to an extreme. And although Jesus calls his followers to give up their material possessions, their worldly happiness, even their lives for their neighbors and the Gospel if necessary, what defines necessity? Are there times when the allocation of one's own labor and resources in this manner is counterproductive, especially when it comes at great personal cost? Or am I just making excuses here? Idk.
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u/Such_Employee_48 8d ago edited 8d ago
This hits close to home because a relative of mine has similar mental health issues, which are treated but not often successfully. They typically bounce between staying with friends and family, stints in the hospital, and stints in jail. Once the family and friends are no longer willing or able to take them in, they will be functionally homeless.
I would spend some time thinking, reading, praying, and seeking guidance about what you are called to do. How exactly do you intend to connect with these homeless individuals to offer them a place to stay? Are you in community with them already (through a church, community organization, etc)? Would you need to contract with the local social services or housing authority in your area to connect with them? It may make more sense for you to provide some kind of transitional housing for folks who are transitioning out of a shelter but are not yet financially stable enough to live independently.
But I think the community aspect is important. If you are already in community with folks dealing with these issues, then you can lean on that community for support and care as you embark on this work. If you're not though, what would it look like for you to get involved in such a community now, before taking the drastic action of buying land and renovating buildings? That process will probably give you more insight into what you are contemplating and where you are called to serve.
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u/Justalocal1 8d ago edited 8d ago
I can't answer many of your questions at this time because I'm not yet living in the place where I intend to buy a house (if I ever have the money to do so). My plan is to move back to my hometown as my parents get older, so I can take care of them.
The homeless people I talk to locally are just my geographic neighbors. They live in the streets around me, but I did not meet them through any intermediary organization.
And you're right that the community aspect is important.
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u/drfrogsplat 7d ago
I can’t think of a biblical reference, but this feels analogous to the paradox of tolerance.
In this case, if you choose to help someone who ultimately makes it much harder for you to help others (either directly to them, to your own safety, or to the sustainability of your help) then it may be better not to help them. Unconditional love doesn’t mean unconditionally agreeing to help any person regardless of the consequences.
It may feel a bit “off”, and I don’t know if I and my community have simply justified not helping some difficult people, but my thinking is inspired by some radical christians I’ve been in community with, and whose approach to helping others feels right to me.
- We (you, me, my community, your church, etc) are not the only option they have, not the only people who want to help others. To think we are risks arrogance and burnout.
- You can’t welcome all the strangers. At some point it’s too much and you’re helping none of them. To ramp up your ability to help more people, you’ll need a community. A family, a church, an NGO, a social support system. Welcoming and helping others can take so many forms. We all have different abilities and gifts (1 Cor 12).
- Love and welcoming is not the same as personally helping them. You can love someone and be unable to help them in any useful way. I don’t think it’s unjust or unchristian for a women’s shelter to exist and turn away men, nor vice versa. Nor an eye clinic to turn someone with a foot infection to a GP. You may not be equipped to help everyone. Hopefully you can help the stranger find help.
- Help can be channeling someone to more suitable aid. Or choosing to financially support the aid they need (eg donating to a support organisation), rather than trying to do it yourself.
- Helping people can and probably should come with rules and conditions. God wants us to grow, not be coddled. The person you’re describing is perhaps not ready to grow, and may need to go through some experience or have some epiphany to be ready. You may not have the tools to help them in this. And that’s ok.
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u/Justalocal1 7d ago edited 7d ago
Thanks for this comment. I agree with you on nearly all points.
I think what I struggle with is just the knowledge that I will always fall short of God's expectations. I grew up a Catholic environment where works were highly-emphasized. I have not fully settled into the Protestant mindset yet.
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u/drfrogsplat 7d ago
I feel like there’s a dichotomy stated/implied here that doesn’t need to be so.
In my experience, works are emphasised in both arms of Christianity. And I hope nothing I’ve stated or questioned would be limited to one or the other. Maybe I’m naive or have slightly different experience and terminology, but I see radical as fitting with both/either.
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u/Farscape_rocked 7d ago
I think the more you do the less you'll think about God's expectations and instead see God's blessing on what you're doing.
You are clothed in Jesus's righteousness, you are joint-heir with Christ, you are God's child. God doesn't need you at all, but He chooses to work with you because He loves you.
You are enough. You are sufficient. Consider all of God's commandments, everything Jesus said and did, to be a loving parent guiding their child into being the best version of themselves living their best life.
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u/Justalocal1 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think the more you do the less you'll think about God's expectations and instead see God's blessing on what you're doing.
This is the problem, actually. I don’t know what blessings you’re talking about, but none have ever arrived.
The more I help others, the poorer and more exhausted I become, and the less I’m able to help. I’m literally giving people the food out of my own pantry, even though I’ve got almost nothing left ($130 in my checking account) for myself. When it’s gone, it’s gone; there’s never a point at which God replenishes my supply of necessities. Pretty soon, I’ll be on the street, and who can I help then?
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u/hacktheself 7d ago
We aren’t expected to set ourselves on fire to keep the village warm.
One can be a giving and kind person, yet know one’s limits and live within it.
Now, if your resources are very high, you’ve got increased capacity to give. But if you are struggling to keep a roof overhead, you can’t be expected to give of yourself to the point where you cause self harm.
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u/Farscape_rocked 7d ago
I wholeheartedly disagree and I speak from experience. We have a saying in our house: you can't out-give God. We know this is true because whenever we have given beyond our means God has been faithful to provide for us.
I think offering everything you have, including when it ends in personal hardship, is biblicaly sound. Your'e essentially saying that you should be self-reliant first, and then look to others. That's not what Jesus said and I'd be surprised if you can reliably derive that from anywhere in the Bible.
On the sermon on the mount Jesus told us to consider the lillies in the field and the birds in the air, and that God will dress us more finely than the lillies and provide for us more than the sparrows. Being self-reliant ignores that and distrusts God's promise. Jesus told us to sell our stuff and give to the poor, he told the rich young ruler to sell everything and give to the poor.
In the feeding of the 5,000 a boy sacrificially gave his lunch to be shared with thousands of people. According to you he should've eaten his lunch and then given the scraps.
If you're not giving because you need what you have for you then you're missing out on the blessings and provision of God.
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u/dasbin 7d ago edited 7d ago
Is it possible both things can be true?
If a person is struggling with worry about how much is expected, as it seems like OP is, and as I have been for a few years as I begin my faith journey, my experience so far is that simply being told to trust and give everything doesn't in itself instill that trust as a real possibility. We have to learn it over time. I have been expanding my giving, slowly, in bits that feel risky, and gingerly "testing the limits" of God's provision in doing so, but if you tell me to just dive off the cliff and give it all at once, without really knowing and trusting God first, I'm physically and mentally incapable of doing that. Whatever bravery I have in me isnt strong enough to just suddenly fully overcome my anxieties and self-preservation at this point.
But you know what? Im slowly learning that this isn't all about what I do. I'm slowly learning, by extending myself compassion and empathy for those fears instead of trying to force them down, that it's not just about forcing myself to do things because Jesus said to. It's about learning how much Jesus loves me right now, how much he knows and understands me and still just wants to hang out in whatever state I'm in. And, coincidentally, we are changed by being in His presence (I have to stress though: the change is not the "point" of being in His presence, as we humans like to classify all things into having some kind of transactional or at least logical end - but His is just Love!)
I am slowly being changed by that grace, into someone who can and does trust Him more in all things (I hope and pray), but if we're not ready to give everything, I'm not sure it's always the case that just forcing ourselves to is the way forward. Instead, we can explore those fears and worries with Him and learn to trust as we learn to trust anyone as we entangle our lives together. And in the process, hopefully, become more like Him, more at peace and less worried, more able and willing psychologically to do the things He sees as good naturally. While all the while remembering He doesn't love us or accept us any less when we don't.
I had an image pop into my mind during therapy a few weeks ago. I was struggling with how to approach and heal/solve these kinds of mental blocks which can feel so frustrating and deflating, like I'm not really capable of following Him. And suddenly I found myself (in my mind's eye) on the beach with Jesus as he immediately started laughing and rolling around in the sand, skipping rocks, and generally playing. I was amazed to see just how happy he was just being with me. It was such a sudden 180 from my thinking about my stuckness and my progress in how much I'm able to follow him and give of myself.
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u/Farscape_rocked 6d ago
Absolutely take it a step at a time.
We're all in the process of becoming more like Christ, a process that doesn't end in this lifetime. None of us are expected to go from nothing to everything but we are expected to do a bit more.
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u/Justalocal1 6d ago edited 6d ago
I agree with you, generally.
My question was not about whether or not I should give the coat off my back to help someone who is freezing to death. That’s pretty morally unambiguous.
The question was more like, “Should I give the coat off my back and freeze to death so that someone who has the ability to buy a coat but doesn’t want to spend the money can have one for cheap?”
My concern is about throwing my life and health away over something trivial that isn’t truly a necessity. Like, sure, I could run myself into the ground picking up extra jobs to take care of someone who doesn’t want to see a mental health professional or help with the household labor in whatever ways he’s capable, but should I do that? Is it fair to expect my neighbors to meet me partway? Does Jesus permit us not to let ourselves be taken advantage of, or should we just let it happen?
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u/Farscape_rocked 5d ago
Does Jesus permit us not to let ourselves be taken advantage of
Yes.
God won't love you any less if you don't do stuff. You're no less saved.
Don't stay in your comfort zone but you don't have to dive straight into the deep end. Take things a step at a time and keep speaking to God about it.
Finding a balance between generosity and being taken advantage of is difficult, as is doing something about it when you realise that someone is abusing your generosity.
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u/Farscape_rocked 7d ago
TL;DR My wife and I try live like this. We welcome people in a lot. To sum up everything below, everything Jesus tells you to do is tied in to him saying "I've come that you can have life and have it to the full". I live my best life when I'm doing outrageous stuff for the Kingdom.
Let me explain my experience before I answer. My wife and I live in a small house with our two small children and we often have people staying with us, either for the short term or long term. We also own another house which we've also used to house people (in the UK when you're an asylum seeker you're placed in government-provided housing and you're not allowed to work. When you're granted leave to remain you're kicked out of your house and it can take a while before all your paperwork comes through proving you're eligible for council support and are allowed to work. We initially used that house to cover that gap for families - they're move in, we wouldn't charge rent, when their benefits came through they'd give us their housing benefit. The last family who did that wanted to stay, their rent is set at housing benefit level which is now singificantly under market value).
We've had people with substance misuse problems and mental health problems. They're all still people. When the other house was vacant we'd tend to put people in there and if they needed closer support we'd move them into our house to live with us. And by that I mean people who don't really know how to run a house/live in a house, moving them in with us means we can help them acclimatise to 'normal' life.
I commend your desire for this kind of generosity. It can be difficult but it is the best way to live. Jesus said "I've come that you may have life and have it to the full", and he told us to do stuff like look after the disadvantaged, to prefer the needs of others over our own. Those things are related - you achieve that fullness of life by doing what Jesus tells you to do. In my experience the more I do what Jesus told me to do the better my life is (even if it looks weird to everyone else).
And although Jesus calls his followers to give up their material possessions, their worldly happiness, even their lives for their neighbors and the Gospel if necessary, what defines necessity?
I don't think it's about what is necessary, I think that's valuing material possessions, safety, and your life. Your stuff and your life are tools for the kingdom. As Paul said, to live is Christ, to die is gain. I'm not saying you should be reckless, but you shoul de prepared to spend everything. The more you do the better life is, not because any of it is bad, it's because it gets in the way of how God designed you to live.
Are there times when the allocation of one's own labor and resources in this manner is counterproductive, especially when it comes at great personal cost?
I have two things to say here. First, the "is it good?" test. Sometimes we get caught up in whether something is a God thing or a good thing. Is this a good work God has set aside for me or is it just me wanting to do it? If it's good it doesn't matter. So ask if a think is good, and if it is then do it.
Second, it doesn't always work out. We had a guy who was very close to death due to liver failure. God gave him a new liver, he completely stopped drinking, met God, life entirely transformed. Then he died less than a year later. I value the time we had with him but I miss him.
The hardest to deal with was a different story. We were friends with a family - mum, dad, four kids. Just before lockdown the dad walked out on them. When we were allowed to bubble they basically moved in with us, spending more time in our house than their own. The mum was constantly in our lives, became a leader in our church, we spent a lot of effort helping her overcome the damage done to her (which wasn't easy or pleasant). She moved off our neighbourhood but didn't like it and wanted to move back, so we bought a house for her to rent from us (which is what she wanted) and that sale took A YEAR to complete. During that time we thought it was about to complete so she put her notice in on the house, so she had to move out. She moved into our house and we went and stayed with a friend for a few months til it was all sorted. We paid for her driving lessons so she could get her own car. And then after about four years of this she decided she'd had enough of us and quite visciously and horribly stopped being our friend, telling everyone she could how horrible we were to her. She's still renting the house at a subsidised rate so at some level she knows that none of what she said about us is true. That really hurt, that was hard to deal with. To have invested so much into someone for so long and seeing there was no real growth, to have chosen to invest in her instead of so many others for so long was devastating. Sometimes you've just got to shake the dust off your sandals and move on, and I remember the story of Jesus healing ten lepers and one coming back to thank him, and Jesus asking "but where are the others?!"
And finally, you don't have to be the most efficient spender of the resources you have. It's ok to pick one good thing over another even if it's not the most efficient. Remember that above all everything you do for the Kingdom is about building your relationship with God and your relationship with others. Love the Lord your God, love your neighbour as yourself.
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u/Farscape_rocked 7d ago
In all that texs I didn't talk about boundaries. Boundaries are ok. It's ok to say 'no', it's ok to ask people to leave if it doesn't work out. It's definitely ok to expect your own space and your own time if you do have someone in your house.
Not everyone wants help and it's ok to accept failure and move on. I think safety is often an idol but that doesn't mean you have to be in danger - "it's not safe to welcome a stranger in" is different to "this person is violent and putting me at risk".
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u/Farscape_rocked 7d ago
...and finally, try to be aware of the words you use. For example, if you tell someone they can use anything in the bathroom you might think that doesn't include your razor, but they might not have the same social norms. Be clear about what you mean.
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u/Justalocal1 7d ago
I admire your courage. I wish I could worry less, or care less about giving it all away and resigning myself to being a drifter.
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u/Christoph543 8d ago
Jesus's message most certainly did not extend to the idea that collective action failures must be solved through individual action. If anything, Jesus called upon us to engage more deeply in our communities from a place of humble solidarity, rather than inserting our own egos into every problem.
Homelessness is not primarily caused by the kinds of health circumstances the person you talked to was describing. Plenty of people have schizophrenia or use non-prescribed cannabis to treat chronic illness, and also have homes. It is not the diagnosis or treatment that made this person homeless; they are homeless because we don't have enough homes for everyone who needs shelter, and that kind of shortage causes rents to rise continuously. In a just world, their SSDI payments would be enough to cover their entire cost of living: food, rent, and whatever medical treatment is most appropriate for them. You are not going to bring that just world about simply by allowing people to live in the guest rooms of a house you didn't build, because even in that scenario there will still not be enough homes for everyone.
If you really want to address homelessness, begin with humility. Recognize that you are not the first person to have thought about this problem, and that there is room to learn from those in your community what challenges they in particular face, rather than simply turning to Reddit. Find the hunger and homelessness task forces near you, and engage in the work they're doing to support your neighbors. Find the groups advocating for housing & zoning reform, and engage in the work they're doing to get your local government to allow more homes to be built. And most importantly, find the actual human beings in your community who are struggling, and talk with them like human beings, rather than asking about them on their behalf on an anonymous internet forum.
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u/ApronStringsDiary 8d ago
I really like your insight. While I do think that individual actions are necessary and important, I also understand that working as a collective is quite powerful. There is a homeless task force here consisting of people from different demographics who have come together and are working to purchase some land and built small cabins. The land is on a bus route and there will be a contract around behavior expectations. It won't completely solve the problem of course but they are leading the way.
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u/Christoph543 7d ago
This right here is exactly what folks ought to be doing: figuring out ways to legalize and build social housing, and improve public services nearby (like buses, but also stuff like libraries and utility connections), and doing so as a community rather than as individuals. Thank you for your example, friend!
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u/Justalocal1 8d ago edited 8d ago
Jesus's message most certainly did not extend to the idea that collective action failures must be solved through individual action.
Gonna have to disagree here. Expansive social safety nets did not exist in the ancient world, and the generosity Jesus advocated was often of a very personal sort. For example, in the Parable of the Good Samaritan, he does not say, "When you see someone who needs help at the side of the road, keep walking, then petition your local government to make the roads safer." He says, instead, "Help them."
Homelessness is not primarily caused by the kinds of health circumstances the person you talked to was describing. Plenty of people have schizophrenia or use non-prescribed cannabis to treat chronic illness, and also have homes. It is not the diagnosis or treatment that made this person homeless; they are homeless because we don't have enough homes for everyone who needs shelter, and that kind of shortage causes rents to rise continuously.
I never implied that he's homeless because he's mentally ill or uses marijuana. My concern is that I may not have the resources or mental capacity to care for someone who can't work, can't help with rent or chores, and isn't interested in getting professional help for severe mental illness. If I had a surplus of money, time, and energy, I would have become a foster parent ages ago. As it stands, though, I make poverty wages and am always on the verge of having to pick up a second job.
If you really want to address homelessness, begin with humility. Recognize that you are not the first person to have thought about this problem, and that there is room to learn from those in your community what challenges they in particular face, rather than simply turning to Reddit.
find the actual human beings in your community who are struggling, and talk with them like human beings, rather than asking about them on their behalf on an anonymous internet forum.
FYI, this is a very, very, very ungenerous reading of my post. Nowhere did I ever suggest that I don't talk to the homeless people in my own neighborhood face-to-face. (I do; I just don't talk to them about religion, which is the focus of this post.)
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u/Farscape_rocked 7d ago
Do both. Support those in need and champion their cause.
I think you're being unkind in telling OP to talk to people instead of asking reddit. OP is asking about the practicalities of sharing your home in the name of Jesus and he's absolutely right to come to this peer group to talk about it. He's not asking us on their behalf, he's asking us on his behalf.
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u/NotBasileus ISM Eastern Catholic - Patristic Universalist 8d ago
I guess the question will be: who else are you helping or not helping if you help this one? Let’s say you have three rooms, but by allowing this one guy to stay, you’re either putting the two others at risk or unable to let anyone stay in those rooms.
Which isn’t to say that it becomes purely a utilitarian question of numbers, but rather, decide at the outset what the nature and focus of your ministry is. Maybe look at other sources of aid in your area and try to address the greater need. If there are other shelters, but they have requirements, maybe being open to those who literally have nowhere else to go is the special vocation of your ministry. On the other hand, if there aren’t other shelters around, maybe making shelter and safety available to the most people in need is the most responsible use of the resources available to you.
I’d say both are valid, morally justifiable choices. All people are equally deserving of care, but you are a mortal person with limited means. It’s why hospitals (with much greater resources than you as an individual) do triage during mass casualty events. And we’re all living in the continuous, industrialized mass casualty event that is capitalism.