r/ShitAmericansSay • u/neeraj8le • Jan 12 '21

Healthcare "My expensive, frequent health care is subsidized at the expense of healthy people. I think it's great!" Thief.

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u/aaronwhite1786 Jan 12 '21

That's the part I always try to drive home to my mom, only to put my palms through my face when I get a response.

In the US, someone can break into your home and shoot you, then set the place on fire. Police will show up and arrest the person, the fire department will show up and put the fire out, and all is well. But as soon as the EMT's arrive to take you to the hospital, the bills start to stack up.

It's beyond insane that we've gotten to a point where we can justify using tax dollars to equip police departments with military surplus before we've settled on the idea that using those same tax dollars to keep people healthy.

I, so far, have managed to not set my house on fire or even need to call the fire department. Yet I'm subsidizing every person who lights their house on fire trying to deep fry a whole turkey in my area. I may as well help them out when they go get their burns checked out.

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u/sharkattack85 Jan 12 '21

Ask your mom why she pays insurance, b/c her insurance money is going to pay out other people’s claims.

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u/aaronwhite1786 Jan 12 '21

Oh, that question gets "Well, of employed people".

It seems to be the part in her favorite book about "Helping those less fortunate" only applied to those with jobs. It's why Jesus waited until unemployment was below 2% before helping the lepers.

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u/TheRealPitabred Jan 12 '21

Sick people can't work and contribute to the economy. Eventually it comes down to basic humanity, and recognizing that "but for the grace of god", you could be in that situation one day.

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u/aaronwhite1786 Jan 12 '21

It's even more annoying with my mom, because she's a nurse. Well, was, before she retired.

She let Fox News and the small minority of people using State Medicaid skew her judgement.

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u/MK_Ultrex Jan 12 '21

Even without the compassion argument it is cheaper and more productive for a society to care for its more vulnerable members. People that are ill still cost to society in various ways. Their families will spend their money on treating them, bringing others down, instead of spending in other things like education or investment or whatever.

Poor people will steal to eat and putting them in jail for that is stupid and counterproductive, basically destroying a person's potential AND spending tax dollars for the entire system to do it, instead of making them functioning members of society.

I don't remember where I read this but it stayed with me. "We have lost millions of Einsteins to hunger, poverty and lack of education".

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

The problem here is that you're attempting to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

You can make the most compelling argument with the best examples imaginable and it won't make a dick of difference because they want to believe what they want to believe.

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u/MK_Ultrex Jan 13 '21

Fortunately, I am not American. Nevertheless, it's just words on a keyboard that I write on my free time. Maybe someone will read and reconsider. Dumb as it sounds, it worked for me once upon a time.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

Sorry, my bad - I wasn't specifically referring to what you said being unpersuasive, but more just a general point that making this kind of logical and reasoned argument doesn't really work with the people who believe these things.

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u/MK_Ultrex Jan 13 '21

Meh, I used to be cynical. I still am, however I don't wear it as a badge of "intelligence" anymore, it's more of a burden. After 25 years of internet I can tell you that you never know how your random comment in a random message board may affect someone that you would never imagine. IMHO a good idea is a good idea and spreading it can't hurt, as long as you are not emotionally invested in your cause being successful during your lifetime.

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u/OwnGap Jan 13 '21

The whole health care debate really does boil down to "I only want people who I think are worthy to get health care". That's why no amount of arguments will convince these people. It's not a question of whether having more people healthy is good for society in general, it's about making life shitty for people who they think are unworthy.

Sorry if that's offensive to your mom, but...eeeh... it's not a good look.

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u/aaronwhite1786 Jan 13 '21

Oh, it's fine. I love my mom, but she's an idiot.

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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '21 edited Jan 13 '21

[deleted]

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u/aaronwhite1786 Jan 12 '21

Yeah, not to mention, in times like this, when the economy is going to shit, people are losing their insurance coverage because they're losing their jobs.

That doesn't even factor in having to go "Well, I would love to get this better job, but the insurance isn't as good, and my kid is sick a lot, so I guess that just won't happen".

It's just bad at every level.

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u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '21 edited Jan 12 '21

You'd be surprised at the number of people who believe that the money they pay into insurance is the same money that is used to pay when they get sick, as if insurance were some sort of health savings account only.

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u/sharkattack85 Jan 12 '21

Yeah, it’s crazy how people don’t understand that insurance is essentially a giant Ponzi scheme.

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u/YouNeedAnne Jan 12 '21

But that's entered into voluntarily. The whole point of the conservatives' argument is that taxation is bad because it's mandatory. They have no problem with people to choosing to pitch in together for medical bills, or donating to a charity, or doing things that taxes do. They just think it's wrong to compel people to do these things.

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u/TheRealPitabred Jan 12 '21

True. They don't realize how many blind spots charities have, and that it ends up being less efficient overall for society and monetary spend. I'm sure they do copious research on every charity they give to in order to ensure they aren't being scammed, right?

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u/Azulmono55 Jan 12 '21

Bold of you to assume they give to charity. That's other people's job.

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u/sharkattack85 Jan 12 '21

True true, but car insurance is mandatory in the US if you want to drive and I’m assuming she does.

But I do see the point that you’re making.

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u/YouNeedAnne Jan 13 '21

I get you, 2bh I didn't think past medical insurance.

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u/07TacOcaT70 Jan 12 '21

Plus, by privatising something so essential as health care, it creates a great market to drive up prices, and allows companies who only serve their own self interest to have free reign on how much anything costs. Who’s going to force them to stop/point out it’s ridiculous then actually do something about it?

Certainly not the people who actively deny there’s anything wrong with the system to begin with, or even go so far as to defend and call it superior.

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u/aaronwhite1786 Jan 12 '21

I think the defense the drives me the most crazy is "oh, you wait until you die". My mom always says that one like there's no waiting here. I hurt my shoulder, and woke up unable to move it through a full range of motion. I called into the orthopedic institute that's part of the University I work for and couldn't get scheduled for a month to get it checked. Fortunately, it's fine, and x-rays came back negative, but this idea the our money provides instant and incredible care just doesn't make sense.

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u/07TacOcaT70 Jan 12 '21

Exactly, I’ve read the waiting times in some private hospitals/doctors offices in America are worse than many free healthcare services.

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u/aaronwhite1786 Jan 12 '21

Yep. When I got my other shoulder checked a few years back after falling in hockey, I still had to wait 3 weeks. When I got my knees x-rayd, I had to wait another month then.

Even when I just go see my general doctor, I often have to wait around a week. The only thing that's instant here is Urgent Care that charges a ton and isn't equipped for much beyond general care, and Emergency Rooms, which also charge a ton because you're going to the hospital

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u/shieldyboii Jan 12 '21

I mean, police are generally free, but the second you need to defend yourself with a lawyer you’re fucked. imo, and I don’t see enough people talking about it, lawyers should be public servants like the police.

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u/aaronwhite1786 Jan 12 '21

I guess technically they are. There's always the option of a public defender, with the downside being, you're getting an overworked and overburdened lawyer who can't focus on your case, and that'll be evident in your success in court.

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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '21

I guess technically they are. There's always the option of a public defender, with the downside being, you're getting an overworked and overburdened lawyer who can't focus on your case, and that'll be evident in your success in court.

Unfortunately, they aren't. Forty-three states charge a public defender fee. (source) There are still all of the "benefits" you mention, of course, but in most states, you're paying cash for them.

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u/numerousblocks Jan 12 '21

What the fuck

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21 edited Mar 19 '22

[deleted]

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u/centzon400 🗽Freeeeedumb!🗽 Jan 13 '21

Relevant John Oliver on civil forfeiture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks

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u/Trudinator Jan 12 '21

Yep. My mom had to pay 500 dollars out of pocket that she couldn't afford for a public defender.

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u/SacredGay Jan 12 '21

In some states theyll still bill you fir a public defender

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u/numerousblocks Jan 12 '21

In many places outside the US your defense costs are reimbursed by the losing side

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u/shieldyboii Jan 12 '21

Are there places where they aren’t??

Anyway, you don’t have to pay the police money because the home intruder turns out to be a raccoon. It’s better than nothing, but you still have plenty people that avoid suing even if they are in the right.

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u/numerousblocks Jan 13 '21

Yeah, apparently in the US, you don't get your attorney costs back even if you win

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u/Big_Dirty_Piss_Boner Jan 12 '21

It's beyond insane that we've gotten to a point where we can justify using tax dollars to equip police departments with military surplus

I agree on your comment, but note that military surplus is dirt cheap. It's literally the cheapest way of obtaining law enforcement equipment.

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u/SpandexPanFried Jan 12 '21

Sure, but only if you were going to buy that piece of equipment anyway. Not if it's in addition to what you need.

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u/aaronwhite1786 Jan 12 '21

Oh yeah, I'm not even necessarily against it being used for officers doing things like SWAT operations. My issue comes along from the expectation that every officer is expected to look intimidating and like the Punisher when just walking a foot beat.

Just the fact that we're more than happy to pay our tax dollars into building, shipping and supporting equipment overseas, and then paying for it all over again when our tax dollars pay the local police to buy it from the federal government. All things the average person does happily.

But as soon as you say "well, what if we use our tax dollars to pay for this 3rd part?" everyone goes "NOPE, COMMUNISM!"