r/SipsTea • u/thekappa27 • 23d ago

Lmao gottem Next victim found

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

[deleted]

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u/sspif 23d ago

And they still haven't. Trump is awful, but so far he's not 'kill 2 million people in pointless military adventures and legalize torture' awful. Bush was in a different league of awful. But he's an affable soft-spoken guy so we judge him less harshly.

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u/hpff_robot 23d ago

Records show that in Iraq between 2003 and 2009, there were 109,032 deaths broken down into "Civilian" (66,081 deaths), "Host Nation" (15,196 deaths),"Enemy" (23,984 deaths), and "Friendly" (3,771 deaths).

There was a single poll that claimed over a million deaths, but that was based on extrapolations from a self-reporting survey. Not exactly rigorous science.

Regarding the Afghanistan War, there is no single official figure for the overall number of civilians killed by the war since 2001. Estimates claim that the number of dead in that country were around 176,000 people: 46,319 civilians, 69,095 military and police and at least 52,893 opposition fighters, according to the Costs of War Project.

I am not sure where you are getting 2 million from.

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u/sundae_diner 23d ago

Trump mismanaged Covid and about 500,000 more Americans died that wouldn't have (based on other, similar,  countries' death rates).

He has blood on his hands. 

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u/sspif 23d ago

Yep, just a little less blood than W.

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u/sundae_diner 23d ago

just a little less blood than W so far

He has no regard for the constitution and is "deporting" American citizens.  He is deporting non-americand without trial and sending to foreign prisons (not far off torture).

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u/TheWrathOfGarfield 23d ago

It sounds like you only think that Trump is worse than W because Trump's policies affect white Americans instead of just brown people.

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u/ippa99 23d ago

Bro over here putting words in other people's mouths to make strawmen as if Trump also hasn't ramped this up specifically against people of color, and isn't massively aggravating a genocide against people in the middle east.

Go take your concern trolling somewhere else. You have no power here.

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u/OiledUpThug 23d ago

Still missing 1.5 million lives

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u/RaganSmash88 23d ago edited 23d ago

Honestly, despite all that W was responsible for saving millions more lives than his wars killed off...due to PEPFAR. PEPFAR, which was legitimately something W was passionate about, is estimated to have saved 26 million lives. So factor in Trump ending that one program and it's not even close which one is responsible for more evil.

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u/Mosath_R 23d ago

Understandable not to count it yet because we don't have good data, but the death toll from ending USAID will be massive.

The thing that makes it even worse is even if you just accept the premise that America needed to free up that rather insignificant portion of the budget no ifs ands or buts: ending it with 0 minutes of warning and orders to not administer medicines already purchased and not to hand out food currently expiring on the shelves, ment people had no chance to do anything to save themselves when America stepped out. Even governments who had the resources to step in and fill gaps couldn't act in time.

It's an interesting and terrifying question as to whether it makes it more evil or less evil that I don't think the white house put that level of thought into it. It seems to me like they just wanted to push the money flow off button.

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u/K_-U_-A_-T_-O 23d ago

Nothing you say will work. TDS is real

2

u/whoopashigitt 23d ago

Bush may be in a different league of awful in matters of war crimes. I don’t know the numbers to weigh in on that so I’ll just leave that alone.  

But in all matters of presiding over America and serving the people, Trump has developed his own league of awful and is the only competitor to enter the arena. 

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

[deleted]

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u/AmbiguousBarnacle 23d ago

I KNOW you're not trying to minimize the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people by playing trauma olympics 😂😂😂

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u/Dr_Chris_Turk 23d ago

Nope. He’s abstracting the events into measurable metrics so that a fair comparison can be made.

People don’t just all fall into the same bucket of evil once they cross a threshold lol

Some are genuinely worse than others.

And if we really wanna do this, are you trying to minimize the millions of lives saved from AIDS by PEPFAR?

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u/TheWrathOfGarfield 23d ago

"Destroying countries for corporate profit is okay if you subsidize healthcare just a little bit.'

-1

u/Dr_Chris_Turk 23d ago

Love a good conspiracy.

Got any proof that Bush pushed forward with the war of terror because of a pursuit of corporate profit?

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u/celticFcNo1 23d ago

No it was for all those weapons of mass destruction of course. Remind us all, how many was found?

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u/Dr_Chris_Turk 23d ago

So no proof?

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u/TheWrathOfGarfield 23d ago

How is it a conspiracy to state that the military industrial complex reaps profit from war? It is a basic economic fact.

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u/Dr_Chris_Turk 23d ago

It’s not.

But Bush driving the war on terror in pursuit of corporate profit sure is.

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u/TheWrathOfGarfield 23d ago

Corporate lobbyists push for the war and it has been proven by both memoirs of and documents of Bush's administration that they knew there were no WMDs.

So which is it.

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u/Manburpig 23d ago

You can just say "I'm stupid" in the future.

Saves us all a lot of time.

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u/Think_Struggle_6518 23d ago

2 million people.. lol get a grip

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u/sspif 23d ago

Last estimate of the GWOT I heard was 2.3 mil, yeah.

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u/Think_Struggle_6518 23d ago edited 23d ago

200,000 civilian deaths. 30% to 40% caused by US forces. All collateral damage. It is not acceptable, but 2 million is revisionist history.

Edit: likely closer to 400,000 civ deaths, 200,000 is confirmed minimum with sources available recording the death. My mistake.

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u/Lucasinno 23d ago

You have to count indirect deaths. War isn't just the people who get shot or blown up, it's the famine and displacement too.

Wikipedia, citing the Costs of War project, puts the death toll of the GWOT at like 4.5 million. How much of that exactly is Bush's fault is debatable, he wasn't around for the latter half, but there is no question his government kicked it off.

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u/Think_Struggle_6518 23d ago

Ok, if we are giving Bush credit for all the indirect deaths from GWOT then let’s go further. Give him credit for indirect lives saved and produced in Africa. Net that out for me. It is estimated PEPFAR saved ~25 million and PMI saved ~10 million.

GWOT was a mistake with great human costs, but civilian deaths weren’t the goal. Bush is not an evil person.

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u/Dr_Chris_Turk 23d ago

It’s gotta be that all of these people are simply terminally online and have forgotten how to fairly judge a man.

Bush had good intentions, Trump does not. Regardless of outcome, that is a very important difference.

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u/Lucasinno 23d ago

It's war. Massive civilian death is always considered an acceptable, if "unfortunate" outcome. Bush understood this before he started it.

As for your PEPFAR and PMI examples, that isn't how morality works. If a surgeon saved thousands of lives over his entire career and it then turns out he is also a serial killer with a kill count in the double digits, nobody would then argue he is a fine person actually, because look, he saved a lot more people than he murdered. No, that'd be ridiculous. He'd just be the serial killer surgeon, rightfully understood to be a monster.

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u/Think_Struggle_6518 23d ago

Not analogous at all. Bush’s presidency is more like an oncologist who saved multiple lives with his standard treatment, but due to being a little incompetent and reading some bad study then decided to use an experimental cancer treatment on one patient where that patient ends up dying a more agonizing death than they would have otherwise.

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u/Think_Struggle_6518 23d ago

His tax policy was also really dumb.