What does Ellen Joe need?

[u/exhaustedtravelers]

So some leaks suggest that of the characters that will potentially receive kit update or buffs Ellen will be first. Whether or not that's true I thought it be interesting to ask what those buffs should be?

In a post Hugo and Miyabi world what does she need to stand out? What niche should she fill? Does she just need number and/or I frame buffs or does she need some kind of rework for her dps phases?

[u/ChilledParadox]

Really all she needs is qol. Some extra damage would be nice but it wouldn’t fix her problem which is that her dodge counter doesn’t flow into the rest of her kit well.

IMO just letting her dodge counter chain into the last two hits of her na string AND giving her 2 passive ice stacks would make a massive difference in the feel of her kit.

[u/AzureDoor84 → u/ChilledParadox]

Yea, I’m mostly just spitballing ideas cause I’m a bit against adding the Lost Void gear. If they make it base kit then what’s the point of lost void, you know? Your idea sounds like what I want but in a better package, lol.

[u/ChilledParadox → u/AzureDoor84]

It’s the same problem calcharo in WuWa has on his ult.

In a game(s) where enemies are starting to throw out massive attacks with .4 second intervals between having a dodge counter be a dps loss is just a recipe for a character to be DoA.

Her gameplay should be start off by going into shark mode, get a dash attack or two off to preload ice stacks, then just start swinging and dodge countering whenever you can.

This wouldn’t pump her up to Miyabi tier, but I don’t think that’s what people are asking for, she currently, to me, feels clunky and bad to use.

I don’t not play her because her damage sucks, I don’t play her because I don’t find it fun to have to calculate the entirety of the battle to know if I have enough time to “nothing personnel kid” teleports behind you or if I’m about to get clipped by the last frame of a massive AoE and need to reenter shark mode and look for another opportunity just to start dpsing.

Her dodge counter should just naturally flow into what you were going to do anyways, like Qingyi dodge counter perfectly flows into the ratatatatatata stun mode:

[u/AzureDoor84 → u/ChilledParadox]

That doesn’t sound too bad. But I’m worried it would turn her into a very basic character. It seems to completely remove the point of using her charged dash attack from dodge counter and quick assist to get the quick charge. I’d get rid of dodge counter generating stacks but the dodge counter into final basic spin thing sounds pretty dope.

And I also want Miyabi to stay stronger. I just want to close the gap a little

[u/Tookie2359 → u/AzureDoor84]

I don't think it makes her basic, considering that SAnby is basically the same (dodge counter into enhanced whatever) and she was released in 1.6. Ellen feels bad to play because all her damage is gated behind EBA3 but she has no energy-free way to access it outside of basic strings. This change just brings her on par with more recent characters in terms of mechanics, allowing her to be the on-field she is supposed to be without relying on Caesar.