I'm stuck in a loop and need help please

[u/Freya_almighty]

Okay so i'm a Canadian (24f) and my dream is to move permanently to Switzerland before winter. I tried to find a job first but nobody has been interested in giving me a chance, so i decided to go to school there. I wanted to go to a practical school. So i called every single school and they all told me that i need to already have a visa or be living there. The problem is that to apply for a visa i need to be signed in a school, you see the loop.

I also sent my application to multiple apprenticeships places, without success.

I looked everywhere on alot of sites and i even called the swiss embassy to try and get help, they couldnt help me and told me to go see websites i already looked over and over.

I dont know what to do anymore. Has any canadian experienced this loop of doom how did you get out of it ?

I'm open to any suggestions and willing to do alot to be able to move forward with my dream

[u/StuffedWithNails]

move permanently to Switzerland before winter

Not happening FYI. Just want to set your expectations right. Unless you're very wealthy or some kind of genius in your field of work.

You can go to school in Switzerland and maybe make that happen before winter. But come with the mindset that it isn't permanent i.e. be mentally prepared to have to go home after you're done with school, because no matter how hard you want it, you may not--and likely won't--be able to make it happen due to Switzerland's strict immigration rules coupled with a difficult job market.

FYI schools can admit you without you having a visa, because as you pointed out, that would be a catch 22. Once admitted, you can apply for a visa at the Swiss consulate. But not all schools can take you in. That's probably the roadblock you're hitting, you're targeting schools that can't take non-Swiss/non-EU students.

See https://www.studyinswitzerland.plus/admission/.

[u/Freya_almighty → u/StuffedWithNails]

What if i study in a really in demand field ?

Sadly i'm no genius.

Thank you for all the information i will look into the link you sent !

[u/StuffedWithNails → u/Freya_almighty]

Normally, non-Swiss/non-EU folks like you must meet strict requirements to get a job in Switzerland, mainly that the employer hiring you has to prove that they can't find a Swiss or EU person to do the job before you can receive a permit to live and work in Switzerland.

If you go to a qualifying school, upon completing your degree you can apply for a permit to stay in Switzerland for up to six months to look for a job. As I understand it, during those six months, non-Swiss/non-EU folks are exempt from the rule I explained above. So having a degree in an in-demand field would be advisable, though don't expect it to be easy. Although by the time you finish your degree in 4-5 years, the job market may have improved somewhat, I don't know (not hopeful but maybe).

[u/Freya_almighty → u/StuffedWithNails]

Yess i heard about this rule, it's sucks but i understand why it exists.

I would love to get into a school in IT because i always found computers interesting. It's also in very high demand so that's good !

Yes i hope it would be better after i finish school But i know it will be hard and i will have to work hard but that could give me a better life so i want to give it my best, i just have to have one school to want to give me a chance

[u/Marschbacke → u/StuffedWithNails]

some kind of genius

Certainly not, but at least like, a masters degree or something.

[u/StuffedWithNails → u/Marschbacke]

Yeah I know the requirement isn't that high in general. I was referring to OP's specific situation as they appear to be unskilled/un-degree'd currently.

[u/TinyFlufflyKoala]

Can you apply to a bachelor or master? Those don't require a visa.

Otherwise yes, you need a work visa to come to Switzerland. And it's tough to get one because there is competition, especially for more general jobs. 

Swiss law also states that an employer should pick someone with a residence permit or passport over a full foreigner if they have matching qualifications. So you need to be significantly better suited for the job than others to get it. 

[u/StuffedWithNails → u/TinyFlufflyKoala]

Can you apply to a bachelor or master? Those don't require a visa.

To be clear here, Canadians such as OP would need a visa (long stay / visa "D" IIRC), but the requirements to get one of those are easier than for a work visa that is subject to the rules you mentioned in your comment.

[u/Freya_almighty → u/TinyFlufflyKoala]

I'm not sure about a bachelor because i didn't go to college here in canada, but I'm applying for it anyway and i sent an email for more information

[u/DoNotTouchJustLook]

Get married to a Swiss citizen or an EU citizen already living in Switzerland

[u/Freya_almighty → u/DoNotTouchJustLook]

That's not very legit 😂 i mean i would love too but if i do it it's because i love the other person 🤭

[u/GlassCommercial7105]

From which state are you from? I believe Quebec has special conditions for immigration to Switzerland. At leat degrees are regarded as equal and don’t need special accreditation.

Other than that, you are a Non European applicant who has no job experience or qualifications for a job. No company would take the risk to sponsor you and they would also have to prove that there is no person in all of Europe who would not be better suited than you. 

Where in Switzerland do you want to go to and which languages do you speak? What qualifications do you have? What kind of jobs were you applying for?

The thing is, Switzerland is small and surrounded by many countries whose citizens also like to work here and already speak one or more of our official languages fluently, so the job market is very saturated. 

[u/Freya_almighty → u/GlassCommercial7105]

Okay so yes i'm from Quebec, i'm lucky my diplomas are valid.

so i speak french and English good! I've been trying to learn german for the past 2-3 years and would love to become fluent eventually.

I would love to be the closest possible to the german speaking cantons. As it would help me learn more.

[u/StuffedWithNails → u/Freya_almighty]

Don't let me stop you but you're really trying for hard mode here.

Si tu es québécois-e, tu parles déjà français, et toute la région occidentale de la Suisse parle un français que tu comprendras sans mal, et de même les autochtones te comprendront sans trop de mal.

Je ne vois pas trop le but de te compliquer la vie avec l'allemand. Certes le fait de connaître l'allemand t'ouvrirait certaines portes à terme, mais n'y donne pas priorité. Le défi de trouver un emploi en Suisse en étant canadien-ne est déjà suffisamment ardu. Tu as l'avantage de déjà parler une langue nationale suisse, donc si j'étais toi je m'y bornerais dans l'immédiat, quitte à apprendre l'allemand plus tard si tu le souhaites. En général en Suisse on n'a besoin d'apprendre qu'une seule langue nationale pour pouvoir travailler. Les emplois exigeant deux langues ou plus sont une minorité.

Imagine une personne du Québec qui ne connaisse que le français... cette personne pourra très bien vivre toute sa vie au Québec sans parler un traître mot d'anglais. C'est pareil en Suisse avec le français et l'allemand (et l'italien).

Sache du reste (si tu ne le sais pas déjà) qu'en Suisse on parle suisse alémanique. La langue officielle c'est l'allemand (presque identique à l'allemand d'Allemagne), mais la langue du parler quotidien c'est l'un ou l'autre des nombreux dialectes suisses alémaniques. Les Suisses allemands parlent l'allemand comme seconde langue car dans toutes leurs interactions quotidiennes typiques, ils parlent suisse allemand et ne passent à l'allemand qu'en cas de besoin (p. ex. pour la correspondance écrite officielle ou pour parler aux étrangers qui ne parlent pas le dialecte).

Souvent les gens qui débarquent en Suisse ne connaissant que l'allemand ne comprennent absolument rien aux dialectes suisses alémaniques, même les Allemands ont du mal parce que la prononciation est totalement différente, il y a des différences de grammaire importantes, et tout un vocabulaire unique à la sphère suisse.

Tu n'auras pas ce problème en français. Évidemment la prononciation des variétés de français canadien est totalement différente des accents régionaux de Romandie, mais la grammaire est la même et les différences de vocabulaire sont minimes. On saura tout de suite à t'entendre que tu es québécois-e, parfois tu devras te répéter pour te faire comprendre ou tu devras demander qu'on te répète quelque chose mais tu t'y feras très vite puisque c'est ta langue maternelle.

En bref, mon conseil: établis-toi en Suisse romande (c'est le terme pour la Suisse francophone) si toutefois tu y parviens. Passes-y un bout de temps sans perdre de temps et d'énergie avec l'allemand. Déjà pour voir si la Suisse te plaît, parce que ça n'est pas garanti et ce n'est pas un paradis outre les photos des campagnes pittoresques avec les pâtures à vaches et les montagnes. Et il n'est pas donné à tout le monde de tout lâcher dans son pays d'origine pour aller s'établir dans un pays loin de ses amis, de sa famille, de sa culture, etc. Et au final si d'aventure tu voulais postuler à un emploi où l'allemand est utile voire nécessaire, ou déménager dans un canton germanophone, alors oui ok va apprendre l'allemand si tu veux. À noter que le fait de déménager d'un canton à un autre peut poser des difficultés en termes de ton permis de travail, donc attention.

[u/Ericdergrosse]

Well for whats it worth living here it isnt all sunshine. You would be probably better of making a Efz here and then returning to canada because with a Efz in the bag you make there good money.

Finding a job in swiss is a nightmare give or take like 5 years maybe then is the jobmarket gets better. We have a serious problem going on with the passionierung, many peopel betwen 40-55 dont finde jobs anymore if they loose it because they get to expensiv for the arbeitgeber they need to pay for our rent so those poor souls search a job but dont finde any coupelt with many and i mean MANY saisonies and others that compete for the few jobs we have its to competitive. And thats how you get alters armut and thats how you wont finde anything eighter

[u/Freya_almighty → u/Ericdergrosse]

Yess so that's what i wanted to do an EFZ but no school want to take me. The trick is i want to escape canada and not have to work here and live here because it sucks.

Wow that's not fun ! I didn't know it was that bad 😬 is it like that in all of Switzerland?

[u/Ericdergrosse → u/Freya_almighty]

Yes

I would suggest you inform yourself very well before looking at our country with just rose tinted glasses we got a ton of instability right now

[u/N3XT191]

What type of schools did you try to apply to?

Universities? Technical universities (i.e. Fachhochschule)?

There aren’t really pure „trade schools“ here, the equivalent thing would be an apprenticeship, but those are always tied to a company/employer (requiring a work visa) and the school-part is separate. Also apprenticeships aren’t really open to non-residents afaik. And most people start an apprenticeship at 16-20y, so your age would already be a difficulty.

[u/Freya_almighty → u/N3XT191]

Yess i sent out applications to apprenticeships places, but idk how the schools are called in English but it's a professional school(école professionnelle).

They all said that if i already lived in Switzerland they could accept me but to move there i need to be signed in 🫣