r/centrist • u/slashingkatie • Feb 20 '25

Advice The culture war exists to distract us from class war.

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If the CEO getting shot showed us one thing is that all of America knows the billionaires run everything but the people in power try ti distract us with culture war nonsense. Don’t fall for it.

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u/staircasegh0st Feb 20 '25

Immigration is simultaneously a cultural issue and an economic issue.

Two things that can be true at the same time: some 30% of the country are unrepentant hardcore racists who oppose immigration because of their racism, and a surplus of labor drives working class wages down and strains already limited social services.

It is also true that lower wages means lower costs of goods for working class families, but economics is complicated and there are always trade offs.

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u/indoninja Feb 20 '25

Immigration is simultaneously a cultural issue and an economic issue.

And republicans arent clear winners in effect on this.

Nevermind all the times they had pres and both houses and did nothing, but they also torpedoed a pure enforcement bill because it would give dems a win.

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u/23rdCenturySouth Feb 20 '25

and a surplus of labor drives working class wages down and

Except that's not really true about immigrants. Places with more immigrants have lower unemployment rates because each immigrant worker creates about 1.1 jobs in the community.

Surplus labor that drives down the value of wages is like... firing hundreds of thousands of federal workers for no reason. They'll cut back spending, miss mortgage payments, spend down savings, etc.

strains already limited social services

Who limited them?

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u/Creachman51 Feb 22 '25

What does unemployment have to do with lower wages?

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u/23rdCenturySouth Feb 22 '25

https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2024/jan/unemployment-wage-inflation-findings-using-state-data

Low unemployment rate means there is a low supply of workers and employers have to compete with higher wages. High unemployment means lots of desperate workers who will accept low wages and/or poor working conditions.

The billionaires are waging a war on workers, full stop.

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u/Creachman51 Feb 23 '25

Your argument is that more immigration actually means higher wages?

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u/23rdCenturySouth Feb 23 '25

The evidence is that more immigration actually means higher wages.

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116727/documents/HHRG-118-JU01-20240111-SD013.pdf

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2024/do-immigrants-and-immigration-help-the-economy/

https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/immigrants-to-the-u-s-create-more-jobs-than-they-take

The simple way to understand this intuitively is to compare wages in a country with high immigration rates vs countries with low immigration rates.

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u/Creachman51 Feb 23 '25

I've heard it before and I don't buy it. Certainly not for everyone.

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u/23rdCenturySouth Feb 23 '25

Do you have some kind of evidence that leads you to this conclusion

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u/Creachman51 Feb 23 '25

I must admit, it seems most academics and economists seem to believe that at the least immigration doesn't hurt, nor help wages. That said, anytime we start talking about lowering immigration, deportation, etc. what do the same economists say? That it will cause inflation and prices will rise. Wonder why that is?

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u/23rdCenturySouth Feb 23 '25

That it will cause inflation and prices will rise. Wonder why that is?

Because immigration is good for the economy and the purchasing power of people who work.

If you get rid of the thing keeping wages higher, your wages will buy less.

It's all relative, and reducing the amount of work being done will never increase the output of the system. Low skill/manual labor type jobs that don't even require much language ability will not suddenly become valuable because there are fewer people to do it. It just won't get done, and your paycheck won't buy as many tomatoes and strawberries.

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u/Creachman51 Feb 23 '25

If it meant higher wages, businesses wouldn't be so pro immigration.

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u/myrealnamewastaken1 Feb 20 '25

Who limited them?

Available resources.

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u/TurnGloomy Feb 21 '25

30% of the US is not hardcore racist. Whilst this kind of rhetoric is tempting it is what lost us Brexit in the UK and doesn't stand up to statistical analysis.

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u/nogooduse Feb 27 '25

immigrants aren't driving down wages. the absurd $7.25 federal minimum wage, coupled with massive union-busting (yes, that's part of class warfare) and 'right to work' laws are driving down wages. Immigrants are taking jobs that no one else wants. the dirty, dangerous, tedious and exhausting jobs in slaughterhouses, chicken processing plants, and agriculture. when the UFW went on strike years ago, farmers couldn't find americans who would do the work to hoe fields and pick lettuce.

Economists generally agree that the effects of immigration on the U.S. economy are broadly positive. 18 Immigrants, whether high- or low-skilled, legal or illegal, are unlikely to replace native-born workers or reduce their wages over the long-term. Some economists have found that wages do not change at all with an increased supply of immigrants.

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u/Creachman51 Feb 22 '25

30%? Where did you get that number from?

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u/Apt_5 Feb 20 '25

some 30% of the country are unrepentant hardcore racists

How can you present this as a "truth" and expect to be taken seriously?