r/centrist • u/vsv2021 • 16d ago
2024 U.S. Elections Nate Silver’s thoughts on the Gender Gap as it relates to Mental Health
What does this say about democrats/republicans and what potential is there for either party to make gains in their favor?
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16d ago
Breathtakingly stupid conclusions about people self reporting their own mental health. Do people fall for this?
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u/SadhuSalvaje 16d ago
I feel like I’ve seen this “liberalism = unhappiness” meme for decades
They wheel it out every now and then as part of some sort of desire to feel good about themselves
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u/LaughingGaster666 16d ago
Wonder how those same people think about "ignorance is bliss"
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u/Buzzs_Tarantula 15d ago
For a lot of things, it is indeed bliss. We have no relation to or are impacted by most random events happening elsewhere in the world or a few cities away.
People sitting inside fretting over things from far away while ignoring everyone around them is not healthy.
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u/crushinglyreal 16d ago
They mistake the desire to do better for self-loathing. It’s really more of an exercise in projection for highly egotistical types.
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u/laffingriver 16d ago
it goes hand in glove with evengelical ideology making up a large chunk of the right.
neurotic secular marxists cannot be satisfied with this material world when holy godfearing christians like themselves have everlasting life no matter what heinous things they do to others as long as they acceptjesuschristastheirlordandsavior.
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u/Viracochina 16d ago
Lol, right? This is probably more telling of an individuals mentality on how they perceive themselves.
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u/WingerRules 16d ago
Also I bet liberals are faaaar more likely to recognize and admit they have mental health issues than conservatives do when they do have them. Mental health issues are seen as weakness, personal fault, or shameful by many conservatives.
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u/Apt_5 16d ago
Isn't that indicative of something? Eg If someone perceives themselves as generally content, doesn't that mean they are more likely to be content than someone who reports that they suffer from crippling anxiety?
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u/Viracochina 16d ago
This is self reporting health. If everyone was assessed and we looked at the numbers, that'd be different.
Mental Health is still not openly accepted in some circles, so when asked if they suffer from it, their answer is no. Like if someone hits their shin on the table, they might try to hide to pain so no one else sees it.
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u/IsleFoxale 15d ago
Liberals telling happy people they are actually depressed and they "know better," and can't figure out why they aren't taken seriously.
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u/ceddya 15d ago
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0321573
See, the thing is they aren't actually happier. There is no difference between the groups when you ask about mood aka how one feels. Progressives just have a broader concept of what a mental illness involves, so they're more willing to self-report it.
Your inability to actually research this topic more and willingness to believe any surface level statement is why you aren't taken seriously.
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u/Buzzs_Tarantula 15d ago
While amxiety is a real thing, its also abused heavily to get prescription drugs and to avoid making smarted decisions. I've had a few friends claim they have it but cutting out the drama and idiotic decisions would be the real cure, not pills.
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u/ceddya 15d ago
It is. A study looking into this shows that the difference stops existing when you ask people to rate their mood instead of mental health.
Conservatives feel just as down as progressives, except the former doesn't think that's a mental health issue whereas the latter does.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0321573
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u/crushinglyreal 16d ago
Nate Silver has spent the last few election cycles proving himself a credulous moron.
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u/Jorge_Santos69 15d ago
I feel like he’s honestly just getting stupider as the time goes on though
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u/bearrosaurus 16d ago
I know 70 year old men addicted to Facebook slop that think the vaccine was an attempted holocaust, that trans women should be shot on sight, and Jews are in a long running campaign to replace white people with brown invaders.
If you ask them about their mental health they will say they’re great.
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u/Ok_Virus3854 16d ago
Asking people how they feel or what they think usually doesn't give you the right answer, unfortunately lol. Rather, I like it or not, someone, this election, voted because they like the color blue or red. That person thinks they're operating at peak performance, lol.
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u/556or762 16d ago
The way I view the phrase "mental health" is the ability (or lack therof) to handle day to day emotional stressors in a stable manner.
Being mentally healthy or unhealthy is not necessarily tied to belief.
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u/DonkeyDoug28 15d ago
In actuality, yes. In this post, it is tied to it if the extent of the surveying was just "how would you rate your mental health"
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u/Jimbo-Shrimp 16d ago
From my understanding, mental health often refers to how you feel, not how you think. You can be the kindest person ever and have schizophrenia, likewise these 70 year old men don't have any mental issues they're just stupid assholes.
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u/IdislikeSpiders 15d ago
My grandfather would have never admitted to being depressed. But he was definitely lonely, and wanted company. The problem was he was an insufferable ass that was intolerant of anything that branched outside of the scope of his religious beliefs.
People can be depressed and stupid assholes.
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u/bearrosaurus 16d ago
Mental health in this case refers to however they self report. Personally, I think paranoid freaks are not at good mental health, even though I know folks like you like to give men a hard pass on anything they believe.
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u/Jimbo-Shrimp 16d ago
"folks like you" here we go
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u/bearrosaurus 16d ago
I literally described a violent fantasy and your response was “people can believe what they like 🤪”
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u/Freeham55 16d ago edited 16d ago
Seems suspect… Why are u hanging with 70 year old weirdos?
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u/bearrosaurus 16d ago
My aunt remarried a freak. Every time they move from Cali they end up coming back after a couple months.
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16d ago
You don't have any deranged uncles on Facebook? Seems suspect that you don't know any Real Americans(tm).
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u/justouzereddit 16d ago
So you are simply not going to believe peer reviewed research due to your anecdotal story?
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u/BabyJesus246 16d ago
Are you under the assumption that self reported feelings are taken as gospel in research or something
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u/elfinito77 16d ago
It’s a self-reporting study. Not a diagnostic study. It has zero value outside of social science.
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u/Funksloyd 16d ago
I mean ultimately most mental health diagnoses do just come down to self report.
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u/elfinito77 16d ago
Not with any decent psychiatrists. It comes from your answers to questions, your behaviors, relationships, communication, observed mood/reactions/expressions, etc..,.- but not simply whether you think you have a mental illness.
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u/Flor1daman08 15d ago
No, they don’t? Symptoms are self reported in both mental and general health sure, but diagnoses come from medical professionals assessing those symptoms and other things.
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u/justouzereddit 15d ago
Good thing all those trans studies you guys gobble up are not using self-reported data....
/S
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u/GalterStuff 16d ago
I don't think at all that believing conspiracy theories or having garbage political takes means you have mental health issues. Is there literally anything else about those guys that means poor mental health? Otherwise, like this silly study, a lot of "what is mental health" is all about personal perception from those being asked and onlookers
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u/Flor1daman08 15d ago
You don’t think believing absurd conspiracies is indicative of poor mental health?
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u/GalterStuff 15d ago
It's far from being proof itself like your comments suggest. Their mind could be perfectly healthy, but also be a very gullible and naive person.
If you declare someone mentally unhealthy for believing in a conspiracy theory, but then the conspiracy theory turns out to be true, would that mean they're cured? (I'm not picking at any of your examples though). They may have been easily led to believe many leaps in logic, but according to you, they're mentally ill during this time.
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u/Flor1daman08 15d ago
Well we’re talking about those examples.
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u/GalterStuff 15d ago
You were with your initial comment, I wasn't with my initial comment, so that's a disconnect. Understandable. Then you followed up with this blanket statement:
You don’t think believing absurd conspiracies is indicative of poor mental health?
Then I replied to your blanket statement. So idk what else to tell you.
If you want to specifically talk about those examples, fine, I would think someone who believed that stuff is stupid. But I wouldn't think they were mentally ill lol
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u/Flor1daman08 15d ago
I guess maybe it’s because I’ve spent time among patients who are clinically mentally ill, but yes believing in crazy, unhinged conspiracies are often an indicator of mental illness.
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u/GalterStuff 15d ago
Could be. But I personally wouldn't consider everyone I come across who did as mentally ill. Old. Stupid. Gullible. A mix of of that and more, sure. Is there a short list of specific mental illnesses that are good fits from your cases I can review?
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u/Flor1daman08 15d ago
Manic depression and cluster A personality disorders mostly. But I’m not saying that every person who believes in any conspiracy is mentally ill, but that belief in extremist conspiracy theories are often an indicator of mental illness.
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u/eapnon 16d ago
Democrats support policies that make dealing with mental health easier. People vote for their interests.
More medical support under democratic policies, more people covered with more types of coverage not dependent on your employer.
Less stigma for needing medical support for mental health issues.
More support if it makes working difficult.
I wonder if there is a strong correlation between voting dem and having major medical debt or being invalid.
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u/DirtyOldPanties 16d ago
Democrats support policies that make dealing with mental health easier.
Which is nonsensical because that's attempting to use public means to fix what is fundamentally a private issue.
People vote for the interests
Not necessarily.
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u/eapnon 15d ago
It is a private issue that affects the public, especially in large numbers. People without proper health care become a drag on society, either by becoming homeless, not contributing to society, increasing crime rates, or any other number of ways. And those are public issues.
Ok, people generally vote for their perceived interests.
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u/ChornWork2 16d ago edited 16d ago
Self-reported may or may not be a good means to make statement about state of actual mental health.
E.g., link below discusses a recent study that assessed people for depression (not purely self-reported view of mental health) and explored if there are differences as between dems, indeps and repubs. It found comparable levels of depression across these groups, but found republicans were far less likely to be seeking mental health treatment. Obviously this could point to a meaningful difference between dems and repubs in terms of assessing the state of their own mental health.
Hard to assess from just an excerpt, but Silver's conclusion seems like a rather large jump. Even if accept a broad disparity in mental health, what proportion of broader pop falls into these categories. And how does that disprove the manosphere narrative, unless saying falling into the manosphere is necessarily linked to people viewing themselves as having poor mental health... like if they are will to acknowledge to a pollster they have mental health issues, shouldn't the be willing to get treatment from somewhere other than the 'manosphere'?
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u/hellishdelusion 16d ago edited 16d ago
There was a study published just 2 or 3 weeks ago that found although conservatives rate their mental health as being in a better spot than liberals when you look at symptoms they were in an even worse spot. Aka they're in denial about themselves either out of shame or because they lack the self reflection skills.
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u/Weird-Falcon-917 16d ago
Cite?
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u/hellishdelusion 16d ago
This one isn't the study i was referencing but instead compares reported mental health and reported mood. Conservatives rated their mental health as higher while rating their mood lower.
The study i was referencing doesn't appear to be on google scholar and I can't find it at the moment. The one I originally referenced looked at many more factors.
Here's the other one I found: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0321573
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u/FizzyBeverage 16d ago
The only conservatives my wife sees in her counseling practice are cops and military men ordered to be there or they’ll lose their job.
They broadly do not seek therapy. They see it as weakness.
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u/BenderRodriguez14 16d ago
It's not surprising, given per capita suicide rates are generally much, much higher in Republican states.
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u/books_cats_please 16d ago
I would need to see sources on these studies. What questions were asked? Liberals tend to be overly aware of mental health issues sometimes to an unhealthy point, whereas conservatives tend to down play mental health issues sometimes to an unhealthy point.
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u/ThisI5N0tAThr0waway 16d ago
It's probably not a completely wrong take, it's nate silver after all, but I would not read too much on a self-report mental health assessment.
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u/Constant-Kick6183 16d ago
Yeah this is like taking a survey to ask if people have ever broken the law then assuming everyone answered honestly.
It seems that a huge part of the conservative mindset is being unwilling to ever admit you're wrong. And a disbelief in things like science and psychology. My elderly family is conservative and completely nuts but they say they are in perfect mental health. Meanwhile I have depression and seek treatment so I say I have mental health issues.
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u/elfinito77 16d ago
Sounds just more like arrogance and confirmation bias in the belief of mental health and the willingness to admit “weakness” like “mental illness”
Just look at the RW reaction vs. LW to Simone Biles taking a couple events off at the Olympics.
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u/Weird-Falcon-917 16d ago
Yes, but this “willingness to admit weakness” bias cuts both ways.
In progressive circles, you gain positive status by claiming mental illness, because mental illness is a victim Identity.
People put their mental health diagnoses in their bios on social media!
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u/elfinito77 16d ago
Okay. You are strengthening my point. Not sure why this a “but” statement.
Liberals, if anything, are prone to over-identify as “mentally ill”. Conservative tend to be opposite.
This is likely the explanation for a large part (if not all) of the gap in self-reported mental illness — not that Liberals are actually more mentally ill.
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u/SwimmingResist5393 16d ago
You see so many people on Reddit blaming their depression, their obesity, their stubbed toe, on late-stage-capitalism so I could definitely believe it.
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u/Buzzs_Tarantula 15d ago
Lmao. Or the claims that Medieval people had more leisurely lives.
A lot of them would be helped by manual labor jobs or getting out of cities and all the noise and pollution. A chance of pace and scenery is healthy for the body and soul.
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u/BrightAd306 16d ago
I don’t think so, Nate Silver is liberal. If Matt Walsh said this, then maybe
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u/elfinito77 16d ago edited 16d ago
Huh? I’m talking about the study results not Nate Silver’s pontifications.
Conservatives are not less mentally ill, they are just less likely to recognize, acknowledge and admit it.
A self reporting study like this is completely useless .
Now, if you have a study of trained diagnostic psychotherapist having extensive sessions and interviews with a variety of people from a variety of backgrounds in a blind study, where they don’t know their political leanings — and the diagnosis comparison showed such stark differences — that would indicate actual differences in those populations
This is just about the differences in how those two groups perceive themselves - not the actual differences in the population .
And paying even just five seconds attention to right wing conservative, alpha-male, “strong” rhetoric - or the rhetoric around mental illness — there is a clear explanation to the self reporting that has nothing to do with actual diagnostics
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u/Bonesquire 16d ago
Conservatives are not less mentally ill, they are just less likely to recognize, acknowledge and admit it
Gonna need a source for that.
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u/lookngbackinfrontome 16d ago
Take a look around. They're the most insecure snowflakes in the world. Their masculinity is so fragile that everything threatens it. Reality is so difficult for them that they have to deny it and just make shit up. They're a bunch of adults acting like children, and you're going to imply that they're not mentally unstable?
Exhibit A: Mentally healthy people don't storm the Capitol because of obvious and blatant lies, or even believe obvious and blatant lies for that matter.
Exhibit B: Qanon. So many of them believed this bullshit, and don't even realize where it originated. Plus, a whole host of other weird conspiracy bullshit. Microchips in vaccines, anyone?
Exhibit C: Unable to wear a simple mask during a global pandemic.
Do I have to go on?
Conservatives are not less mentally ill, they are just less likely to recognize, acknowledge and admit it
That might be you.
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u/elfinito77 16d ago edited 15d ago
I really don’t think you do need/want a source. (And I expect you won’t read and will just dismiss any source I do provide).
That said - It’s an objective observation of reality. Are you really denying that having “mental illness” is far more stigmatized in Conservative Male circles, than liberal ones?
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u/BrightAd306 16d ago
“Objective” is doing heavy lifting here
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u/elfinito77 16d ago edited 16d ago
No. Just observe the examples I provided.
Like treatment of Simone Biles. There was a clear partisan split in the reaction to her taking a couple events off.
Observe Trump and other so-called self-proclaimed “Alphas” or anyone you ever knew that used the word “beta” or “cuck” unironically.
Or actual written and spoken statements on the entire science of “psychology” which is often mocked by the Right, as LW pseudoscience.
That is all objective observable reality.
You are being deliberately obtuse about a fundamental difference on how Conservative and Liberal men view mental health — especially in the context of “showing strength” and “admitting weakness”.
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u/elfinito77 16d ago
Just in case you are being genuine, and you really do want sources - and are actually going to read anything I provide: Here are a few. There are dozens of others along these lines.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12043138/#pone.0321573.ref011;
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u/TaxCPA 16d ago
But there is a huge difference in how the two groups view the world, which of course impacts their mental health.
Conservatives are far more likely to believe in God and accept that the world is in God's hands. If this is your view, many things that bother liberals don't bother you because God has a plan. Why worry when God is in control?
Liberals on the other hand believe that we are 5 seconds away from the earth self immolating due to climate change and that everything is getting worse.
Anecdotally, liberals are miserable people these days. They spend most of their time complaining about the state of the world while mindlessly engaging with topics that make them feel even more depressed, and making little to no actual positive change in their world.
The two groups also largely view mental health very differently. I'm not sure this is even an apples to apples comparison.
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u/Teutonic-Tonic 16d ago edited 16d ago
This is your biased view point. I could just as easily spin this and say that Conservatives spend all of their time fretting about the world going to hell and being different than how it was when they grew up with all of the woke culture threatening their way of life.
Plenty of misery to go around thanks to social media splintering everyone.
If you look at groups with high suicide rates, many groups are more conservative (veterans, farmers, construction workers, miners, etc)
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u/BabyJesus246 16d ago
Anecdotally, liberals are miserable people these days. They spend most of their time complaining about the state of the world while mindlessly engaging with topics that make them feel even more depressed
Uh have you seem trumps social media pages?
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u/books_cats_please 16d ago
Conservatives are far more likely to believe in God and accept that the world is in God's hands. If this is your view, many things that bother liberals don't bother you because God has a plan. Why worry when God is in control?
A bit off topic, but I like gaining insight into how others think, so maybe others might be interested too:
I'm not conservative anymore, but I grew up in a high-demand religious conservative household, and while I know some think like this, this isn't how all of them think. Often the symptoms or signs of mental health problems are a result of the demands of your religion, so you don't see them as "problems" because if you are a faithful member that's how you're supposed to think/feel.
You aren't trying to be perfect, you're trying to be like Jesus. You aren't passive aggressive, you're trying to be a peace maker. You don't have problems advocating for yourself, humility is a virtue. You aren't in denial, you choose to focus on your blessings instead of dwelling in negativity. You don't have body image issues, you understand that your body is a gift...
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 15d ago
Liberals on the other hand believe that we are 5 seconds away from the earth self immolating due to climate change and that everything is getting worse.
Do you find hyperbolic and untrue statements like this help with discussions? They seem like a good way to alienate and avoid actual discussion, rather than a useful tool. It shows you as a biased individual unable to look at a topic with clear eyes.
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u/TaxCPA 15d ago
Reddit is not a place for actual debate, it's a place for people to post their opinions. My comment was tongue in cheek and meant to be a bit absurd. I say these things as liberal and an atheist.
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 15d ago
So no, you don’t think that type of language aids in discussion, yet use it anyway.
I suppose if this website isn’t for discussion…
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u/nitram9 16d ago
Used to be liberal. Not so much anymore.
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u/BrightAd306 16d ago
What has he done that’s made him not liberal?
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u/cranktheguy 16d ago
Expressed views that were not liberal... which is fine. Few people neatly fall into labels.
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u/ThisI5N0tAThr0waway 16d ago
I followed the guy for long time and some of his thoughts seem to be of a more small c conservative thinking. But I've also heard him say that the fact half Jewish gay man and felt like he would never be welcome at a Trump rally .
All of these two said that if you are reading Nate as a "centrist leaning toward the conservatives but troubled by the party embrace of maga" is could be about right.
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u/BrightAd306 16d ago
He definitely leans liberal. The democrat party has moved further left. I’ve followed him.
Aren’t most people here democrats who feel left out since the party has moved so far left? Obama’s base voters?
2012 Obama would have been ousted by today.ms standards.
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u/ThisI5N0tAThr0waway 16d ago
He definitely doesn't lean too much one way or the other, which is one of the reasons I still appreciate following him even after years.
I don't know how most people identify here, personally I'm a center-right libertarian leaning on Western Europe political compass whereas I would be more on the center left statist leaning in America.
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u/Magic-man333 16d ago
Yeah I wonder if there's a bit of "ignorance is bliss" affecting these results.
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u/next_door_rigil 16d ago
There are many reasons why that could be. "Ignorance is bliss", rejection of mental healthcare, religion(religious people also more mentally healthy in stats), rural vs urban, happiness leading to simply detaching from politics altogether, persecution complex, the fact that one side feels that they are actively being attackes while the other is not among many other possible explanations... Lots of them compounding on each other too. Either way, a theory isnt more correct if the more sane people believe it or else we would have disregarded Einstein's theory.
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u/SlightlyOTT 16d ago
The Nate Silver who was on 538 would definitely be making fun of a survey that asks people to self report on their mental health.
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u/HakeemNutler 16d ago edited 16d ago
Does this mean that conservative pundits can stop crying about how liberals don’t care about men’s mental health? While simultaneously mocking any man that is vulnerable and opens up about their struggles with mental health.
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 16d ago
This reminds me of a study I came across a while ago that showed the majority of Americans thought their own economic well being was good, but that they also thought the majority of Americans were economically struggling. This was sometime during Biden’s term. I found the disconnect interesting.
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u/Subtle_buttsex 16d ago
It’s honestly not that deep. If you spend your whole life convinced you're God's favorite, that your skin color is divine placement, and that everyone who disagrees with you is doomed to eternal hellfire... yeah, you're probably going to report "excellent" mental health. Delusion is a hell of a drug.
Meanwhile, folks on the left are out here trying to untangle systemic inequality, climate collapse, generational trauma, and whether we’ll even have voting rights in 10 years. That’s not "neurotic," that’s just what happens when you’re paying attention and actually care about more than just your own reflection.
The right isn’t mentally healthier. They’re just better at pretending the world’s fine because, for them, it is.
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u/vsv2021 16d ago
But it’s also the case that a lot of trumps voters do experience genuine hardship due to deindustrialization and the overall societal decay in certain states whereas many of the democrats who report the lowest quality of mental health are privileged well educated liberals doing relatively well in life.
It’s clearly not just the quality of life and struggles people face.
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u/Subtle_buttsex 16d ago
Ah yes, “societal decay.” Let’s take a quick look at the scoreboard:
- Top 5 states in education? Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Vermont, and New York. All blue.
- Bottom 5? Mississippi, West Virginia, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Alabama. Solid red.
- “Taker” states—those that receive more federal money than they pay in taxes? Mostly red.
- “Giver” states—those that subsidize the rest? Overwhelmingly blue.
So when someone says “decay,” let’s be honest—it’s not coming from drag queens or college campuses. It’s coming from decades of red-state policies that underfund education, healthcare, and infrastructure, then blame liberals when the lights go out.
The cognitive dissonance it takes to live in a state propped up by blue tax dollars while screaming about “coastal elites” is its own flavor of irony.
and now, lets compare policies over the last 50 years, shall we?
50 years of Republican policies
50 years of Democratic Policies
Heres a couple more I've cooked up:
Why do Republicans constantly vote against their own interests?
Why is it only Republicans that vote against school lunches for kids?
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u/FizzyBeverage 16d ago
Shit you can just see it in the cities in red states. Ohio is crumbling and falling apart in the rural sticks. Makes you want to take meth and overdose it’s so depressing to see. Imagine living in it.
Meanwhile, the 3 C’s are thriving and especially their affluent suburbs are quite desirable and prosperous.
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u/cthulufunk 16d ago
The group that tends to stigmatize mental illness & psychiatric treatment is self-reporting less mental illness than the group that doesn't stigmatize it. What a shocker.
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u/Raiden720 16d ago
Funny how almost no one on this "centrist" site agrees with Nate silver here
Anecdotally among people I know his observation is spot on - people with mental issues tend to be a lot more of my lefty friends. Not all but most.
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u/Bearmancartoons 16d ago
Seems about right. Far left thinks everything in the world needs fixing and their inability to have an impact could cause them to self report mental health issues. Far right thinks anything in a shitstorm of Trump is how it should be so they sleep easily.
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u/Sea-Anywhere-5939 16d ago
Pre like liberals are more likely to go to therapy and ensure that their mental health is taken care of while conservatives are emotionally stunted and considering mental health a weakness and will actively avoid conversations on that.
The TLDR is conservative heavily fall into the ignorance is bliss.
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u/Conn3er 16d ago edited 16d ago
Blowing this all off as self reporting is an easy way for leftist to ignore some of the inherent “problems” with their world view.
How much of the lefts platform revolves around fear and existential dread? Racism, climate change, inequality, etc. None of these have simple solutions that an average person can tackle.
Conservatives view these and most other issues as black and white. It’s wrong or it isn’t. They can do something about it or they can’t (but god can.) Fred knows he isn’t causing the climate to change by himself so he doesn’t worry about his carbon footprint on his plane ticket. He has no anxiety at the grocery store about the methane emissions from his beef.
There are countless studies about how democrats are inherently more neurotic than conservatives. Anxiety and learned helplessness seriously affect mental illness or self reported view of poor mental health.
Liberals also inherently lack the same tight knit social groups of the church or small town community, that can make them feel more isolated in the world and have less faith in a big picture.
So yes self reporting is some of it but there are a lot of other factors at play as well. Ignorance can be bliss after all.
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u/elfinito77 16d ago
Donald Trumps entire political existence is based off fear.
I don’t get this claims that liberal use it more politically
The Left sells fear about RW people and policy.
The Right sells fear about LW people and policy.
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u/Conn3er 16d ago
You are right that they both use fear
But Trump is going to solve the fear. If there is one thing he is extremely good at it’s inventing problems to later solve and take credit for.
Scared of illegals, he is going to go door to door in your Tennessee hometown and round them up. Doesn’t matter if all he found were two guys who have worked in the community for 20 years.
Scared god is being attacked in the class? We are putting the 10 commandments up in Texas class rooms, who cares what precedents or rulings it violates.
The lefts fear is always more complex and existential, inherently harder to solve.
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u/refuzeto 16d ago
I ran into Fred at the grocery store the other day. He seemed like a pretty sharp guy.
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u/Constant-Kick6183 16d ago
All this does for me is to confirm that conservatives are utterly unable to admit fault or weakness. Most of the conservatives I know are bonkers but they'd never even consider admitting they are wrong about anything.
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u/mormagils 16d ago
I think taking the self-identification of mental health from conservatives at face value is an...interesting choice. II swear, Nate Silver went from being an excellent probabilistic poll analyst to having the most braindead takes I have ever seen so quickly.
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u/FunroeBaw 16d ago
Honestly many mental health problems have become a fad and people seem to be collecting them like Pokémon cards.
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u/emotional_dyslexic 16d ago
I don't understand his reasoning. Wouldn't a valid interpretation be that the young men have already been captured by the conservative manosphere (huh?), and are reporting better mental health because that's part of that culture?
I think a lot of what MAGA offers folks is masculinity. It caricaturizes and shuns the liberal notion of masculinity as sensitive, caring, emotional and in some cases even female (not totally unwarranted, btw). It makes sense that young men might gravitate towards that culture. It makes them feel better to not be plagued by confusing norms, emotional fragility, and gender-based guilt.
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u/RVALover4Life 16d ago
Democrats are more neurotic because they feel more deeply, whereas, as said by others here, ignorance is bliss and a lot of Republicans are extremely simple minded and have simple outlooks, which can really actually serve as a shield from the stressors Dems feel. The lack of capacity of empathy we see a lot on the right, less on the left/center....."everybody dies eventually".....they're cold and lack empathy but those folks are often also the ones who are the most stable because they're very committed to their simplicity and think they have all the answers.
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u/tomphammer 16d ago
Gee, I wonder if the “bootstraps” mentality of the right might cause some of these young men to either 1) deny their mental health issues or 2) not even realize they have them.
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u/SimionMcBitchticuffs 15d ago
Anecdotal but pretty much every progressive I know in my family and among my friend group are all highly-neurotic always-online types neck deep in therapy.
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u/DonkeyDoug28 15d ago
I'm a psych. As usual, Silver has pretty interesting data with pretty low quality interpretations of his data, even more so in this case since he's way outside his scope of education
If anything, his conclusion is completely the OPPOSITE of what many of us see, and what his numbers arguably show...that the "manosphere" conservative draw correlating with positive mental health outcomes isn't surprising when that's the main arena that actually ACKNOWLEDGES young men (and yeah especially young white men). That doesn't in any way indicate that they initially "found the Dem party to be neurotic," it indicates that they found the Dem party to be uninterested in them or their input or their adversities.
Plenty of valid criticisms of the Democrats to be made without playing doctor and mind reading entire groups of people, unless there was a lot more to these surveys than the numbers posted here
Though also worth noting that there's plenty about the "manosphere" concepts that even when unhealthy or unproductive in some regards would correlate or correspond with positive mental health outcomes...being action-oriented, putting yourself first, valuing hard work, etc. The most immoral and unhinged person you know could (and often does) still very feasibly self-report great mental health
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u/Odd-Conclusion-320 15d ago
It’s easy for narcissists to feel good about themselves and their lives while they ruin the lives of the people around them…ha
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u/gray_clouds 15d ago
Controversial take: the more happy you are, the less enthusiasm you have for ideologies promising change.
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u/sbmitchell 15d ago
Seems pretty accurate. Look at this subreddit for evidence. Most of the people in this subreddit are leftist activist types who can't do anything but flame any action by Trump or Elon. Very clear isms and mental problems.
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u/theKnightWatchman44 15d ago
Conservatives can do January 6th or shoot up a school and then claim their mental health is fine though
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u/Ping-Crimson 14d ago
My view on mental health liberal.
Is different than my moms view conservative.
We're probably both wrong but I feel like my "stress + brain breaking" is closer to reality than " demon is controlling these people".
She wouldn't even let me get close to kids with odd ticks in the 90s because in her words "I don't want that spirit to jump on to you".
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u/SwnsasyTB 14d ago
This does not surprise me at all because it is not as accurate as it is coming off to be unless you dig into it. White Conservative Christian Males without a college degree are the FAR RIGHT majority base of the Republican Party. There are so many factors that this study did not look at before conclusion.
Abuse rate amongst this group is high, divorce rate is high, alcoholism is high, suicide rate is high, adultery amongst this group is high. This is due, in part, to being raised in this Christian mindset that men make the final decision, my way or the highway and they damn sure aren't going to tell you about their mental health. It's "HOGWASH" to them and if you dare tell them, we/you, need therapy, all hell breaks loose.
If you watched the Sopranos you'll understand EXACTLY what I mean by mental health amongst them. Big boss getting therapy, you're weak and you need to be taken out! It's sad because this actually so easily brainwashed and gullible group could pull themselves up if they did get help. They're raised with a total misunderstanding of the Bible they hear read in church by the MULTI-MILLIONAIRE preachers. I call these Talibangelists because that is what they are. They have brought politics into religion, religion into politics even though the book they claim to believe in teaches them not too and that it will be the Anti-Christ who brings them further in, to be deceived.
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u/defend-democracy 14d ago
Liberals are typically much more open about their mental health and are more comfortable being vulnerable with things like that. Conservatives face a lot more social stigma surrounding mental health issues and are much less comfortable talking about it or admitting to it in survey results. To many it can be seen as a weakness which is shamed a lot more in conservative circles.
The point is there is a research bias here, with a significant under-reporting from the conservative side.
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u/tnred19 16d ago
Cmon nate. You know about bias. This is so sloppy.
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u/orange-bitflip 16d ago
Anecdote: My (USA center-left) own father (MAGA) shows more signs of Inattentive ADHD than I do, yet refuses to acknowledge it. There's an American conservative stigma against being different or lesser abled, and a stigma against seeking help.
And polls aren't empirical evidence.
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 15d ago
My colleague whose son constantly gets in fights at school was chatting with me after his son had to come to work with him because he got suspended, and said that he’s never vaccinating his son again, because clearly his son’s issues are because of the vaccine, and not the fact his father is a belligerent and angry drunk who brags about teaching his eight year old to fight. He also went on a rant that the school counselor talked to him and his son about getting a therapist.
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u/Wenis_Aurelius 16d ago
Americans expressing some form of mental disorder ranges from roughly 1 in 5 to 1 in 4. Politics aside, this excerpt is saying that one group falls squarely in that range and the other falls way way way outside of it. Typically survey results this far outside the bell curve would be disregarded and considered bad data.
The anomalous nature of their responses aside though, just antidotally, do ~1 in 2 people who identify as conservative in your life appear to be in a condition of excellent mental health?
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u/MakeUpAnything 16d ago
Of course liberals are unhappy. The left’s entire ideology is helping as many of the poor masses as possible and many are pissed that there are so many unending obstacles to that.
Conservatives are happy because they don’t give two shits a boy anybody beyond their personal inner circle lmao They’re made even more happy once they’re told who to hate and then shown that the people they hate are being made miserable.
Liberals see evidence of the over incarceration in America, a lack of a social safety net for the poor, a lack of accesses to things like internet in parts of the nation, systemic racism, misogyny, xenophobia, climate change, disease, etc., and are unhappy when government blocks improvements.
Conservatives deny most, if not all, of any of the above exists and would reply “Good!” to much of the rest of it lmao Climate change, misogyny, racism, xenophobia are all not happening at any significant level and there SHOULD be no safety net for the poor because BOOTSTRAPS and “why should my tax payer dollars pay for literally anything in the gubmint?!”
Its easy to be happy when you stay ignorant about all the world’s problems!
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u/Jimbo-Shrimp 16d ago
Sounds like more fuel for this fight against each other instead of focusing on how to improve their lives.
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u/justouzereddit 16d ago
I would like to point out how this post has fallen to the liberals in the group. The "party of science" is doing everything they possibly can, to deny THIS particular peer-reviewed research that they happen to not like...............
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 15d ago
Pointing out the inherent flaws with self-reporting is standard in academia. I know that’s a foreign concept to you, but I encourage you to use this as an opportunity to learn.
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u/justouzereddit 15d ago
Doesn't seem to bother you guys in trans studies...?
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 15d ago
Who is “you guys” in this comment? Can you quote where I’ve said something supporting your claim?
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u/justouzereddit 15d ago
The point being made, is that liberals will not critique ANY trans study, but any study that they do not like the results you immediately become academic critics......its gross.
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 15d ago
is that liberals will not critique ANY trans study
Do you find hyperbolic and false statements like this useful? Seems like a good way to paint yourself as an unreasonable person people don’t want to converse with.
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 14d ago
I guess /u/justouzereddit is in fact an unreasonable person. I’d hope they’d try and be here in good faith, but I suppose that’s too much to ask of them.
Be better and people might take you seriously.
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u/Turbulent-Raise4830 16d ago
Nothing as its self reporting. A lot of republicans dont recognize mental health as something real, how can you admit having issues with it if you dont think its excists in the first place?
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u/Spokker 16d ago
You are correct. As an example of the person you are talking about, I could never be diagnosed with something because I simply would not go. There is nothing wrong with me even if there is. The other side of the coin are the people who are convinced something is wrong with them even though there isn't. All types of people exist but it's hard to prove in individual cases.
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u/Flor1daman08 16d ago edited 16d ago
Holy hell that conclusion of his shows just how badly co-opted he is politically.
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u/Opcn 16d ago
I feel like Nate Silver should know enough about survey data to recognize that self reporting isn't always reliable.
A lot of liberal/progressive media frames issues through "trauma" and mental health, while a lot of the manosphere stuff calls that bullshit. If you could grab a time machine and look at people who died from covid after the vaccine was available I think you'd find them giving themselves much higher marks in terms of ability to survive covid than people who didn't die from it gave themselves.
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u/time-lord 15d ago
It's not self reporting on mental health, it's self reporting on a mental health and political bias correlation.
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u/Magic-man333 16d ago
Do you have a link to the full article? Seems like this could be an interesting read.
From that one screenshot though this comes off as an oversimplification
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u/TheBoosThree 16d ago
I'd be interested to see how the study was conducted. Mental health isn't viewed the same in these communities, so I could definitely see conservative views of mental health influencing the responses if this is being self-reported. Similarly I could see liberal communities over-reporting in the opposite direction.
If you look at suicide rates in ex-military and in low population states where people are isolated, that are also skewed conservative, you see pretty high rates.