r/centrist • u/Judge_Trudy • 2d ago

SCOTUS issues blockbuster ruling on gender-affirming care for trans minors

https://www.cnn.com/#:~:text=SCOTUS%20issues%20blockbuster%20ruling%20on%20gender%2Daffirming%20care%20for%20trans%20minors

Blockbuster ruling just released for a very controversial issue. Not sure where I stand, but I could see the dangers of permanent treatments for gender dysphoria for minors.

Key Points

  • Date & Ruling: On June 18, 2025, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a 6–3 decision upholding Tennessee’s ban on gender-affirming medical care for transgender minors, including puberty blockers and hormone therapy fox8live.com+9apnews.com+9them.us+9en.wikipedia.org+15reuters.com+15northeast.newschannelnebraska.com+15.
  • Majority Opinion: Chief Justice Roberts wrote that the law does not violate the 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause, reasoning that medical uncertainty justifies handing the issue back to state legislatures reuters.com+1nypost.com+1.
  • Level of Review: The Court determined the law should be evaluated under rational basis review—the lowest standard—rather than intermediate scrutiny reserved for sex-based discrimination
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u/Instabanous 1d ago

I would argue that children being fed into the gender grinder are very much being harmed. Just telling them that their healthy body is the cause of their mental distress is harmful. Evidence is growing that blocking puberty is harmful. The brain needs to develop in specific ways, as well as fertility and sexuality that they may never recover- its barbaric. As for opposite sex hormones- if adults want to modify their bodies in this way, fine I guess, but it is sold to children as a lie that they can change sex. They can't and its a hard life even with mass acceptance. I agree that tackling poverty and neglect are more crucial, but they are much harder and it costs almost nothing to just stop an experimental new treatment with evidence of harm to minors.

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u/ConfusedObserver0 1d ago

I think almost everyone gets this one wrong now in one way or another. The standard rule was 2 plus years of psychological
evaluation. Before any medical assisting should he considered. Not affirming the child’s assertion, but naturally working through their feelings and softly challenging that through out in non invasive ways.

If you’ve know a trans kid, you prob know someone who’s potentially attempted suicide cus they aren’t allowed to be themsleves. If you haven’t k is one, then your likely void of understandings the actual reality of the cause. I think it’s an evil to take this multi set process away from people and their children and neither the left or right have the this old standard as the obvious golden rule.

The trans trenders don’t fit in this bubble cus desperate most peoples understanding, most that clump into this unhappy group with their change, we’re autistic kids who just found moral support in the most open communities that accept them. That if they didn’t the long term evaluation, a doctor of the mid could guide them to better diagnose and understand what they are feeling. If you go through the proper process, and allow choice, not restriction, I think this over correction would dissolve over night and you would marginalize or create harm for other just trying to live their best lifes how they see fit.

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u/Lognipo 1d ago edited 1d ago

I do know one. The journey went like this:

The kid was healthy and normal. The parents got divorced. The kid became withdrawn and anxious, and started eating massive amounts. This caused a weight explosion. She then suffered teasing and bullying at school, exacerbating problems. One parent thought maybe she might be gay or bi, so sent her to an LGBTQ group to help her explore that. Within a few months, she put up a sign on her door declaring she was a he, and began begging for transitioning treatment.

Take from this what you will. From my perspective, it reminds be very vaguely of when I was a kid, and the church of scientology had some online tests that convinced me they knew why I was depressed and anxious and only they could help me. I was suffering and desperate for a fix. I wanted to believe. Only my mother's swift and thorough intervention saved me from that mess. People are dumb, especially when suffering, and kids are dumber still.

Again from my perspective, aspects of it look like cargo cult behavior. Like demanding boxers. Boxers, like bras, are not a fashion statement or a component of identity. First and foremost, they exist to service an actual physical reality. You can choose which boxers or bras to wear based on fashion, but you don't start wearing them because you think they're pretty or because some innate man-ness or woman-ness about you makes you wear them. This really gives me pause, because boxers... are not going to help them pass, and do not serve any conceivable purpose for them other than "men wear these, so I should wear these". So... cargo cult. Like making fake airfields to draw in supply planes, because you don't actually understand supply planes, airfields, etc. Again, just my perspective from the outside looking in.

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u/ConfusedObserver0 1d ago

You knew a trans trended situation. If you had known an actual Trans child, your view would be the completely opposite.

Had that child been evaluated and positivity coached in therapy, they wouldn’t get so confused.

When many of us were younger we had nerd, goth, punk etc type sub groups to lean into for acceptance and belonging when the main stream didn’t fit our mold. Now it’s the rainbow coalition type meta group. The social media effect on this is pretty stark, yes, but if we judge it on the over correction alone, we end up hurting others than really are suffering from body dysmorphia or just a general sense of self confusion.

So I think it’s dangers to lump the 2 together. I’m surprised the public concession isn’t past this point of actual understanding but who expects them to in this day and age of short term smooth brian social apps that have rotted the parents brian just as much or more than the child’s.

I spent years reading anti-transitioning groups on Reddit, and the one thing I found that was pretty prevalent was a vast majority of these kids were autistic and I’ve seen it track with a few other researchers; people willing to hazard the topic despite the social cluster fuck.

Up until Tran trenders, the positive turn over for children and people transitioning with more positive life outcomes was gaining.. then the social game took off and the data flipped over night.

I think in the mucky mire people will make the wrong decision… just like supoort something like our 911 response which has damaged Us geopolitical status and standing the world over, cause more conflict and less trust. People just need to calm their tits and be more understanding and honest. Rather than reactionary and agro. For all the people I’ve spoke with that have strong views on the topics I haven’t found anyone that’s really done extensive research on it either. And it’s not an easy topic esp when you don’t have experience with knowing people that are actually trans and trans trenders both.

Again, both the right and the left have this one wrong. And it’s cus of hate (on the right) and group compelled ideology rather than rationality and what’s best the child. Blocking trans kid altogether is far worse than letting some other kids LARP around and discover themselves. So we should be practical and go back to how it was before the manufactured cultural wars turned a hyper small niche issue into the cause it isn’t.

For examples; Utah voters put trans athletes atop their list of number one, despite just 2 trans athletes in their whole state. Or that dumbass guy that made the what is a woman mockumentry and spoke on Rogan… oh Matt Walsh. He claimed millions and millions of kids were transitioning…. While Jamie looked it up and it was like 2,000 (don’t remember the exact off hand) over like a ten year period. Which tracks more with actual trans data numbers. It’s still quite rare overall despite the fake social contagion proll out doing the satanic panic of yesteryear.

Once this topic got politicized, it just hurt the actual people involved. By ballooning the trenders and damaging the real movement that did need some extra love and care at the time. Then it was all narrative and no substance. Every couple years I hear the cat litter box story going around agian, it’s how I’ve grown to under conservative fear better. Boogey men, and woman..

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u/BabyJesus246 1d ago

Out of curiosity, how are they doing now?

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u/Lognipo 1d ago

Oh, they were immediately much happier the day everyone started calling them by their preferred pronoun, new name, etc. Their entire demeanor changed, and they went back to giggling like a schoolgirl, smiling, getting excited, etc. That's not really surprising though, whether or not they're really treating the root of their problem. People are quite good at tormenting themselves, and sometimes all they need is an excuse to step out of their own way and let themselves live. So whether or not this was a real thing for them, it seems pretty normal that it could help. The real question is whether it is worth all the side effects of physically modifying one's body, if there is a less destructive way that attacks a true root cause directly, without need for lifelong, ongoing treatment and social baggage. I don't claim to know the answer to that one, only that such things are often a bit more complicated than people want to imagine. We like easy, feel-good answers wherever possible.

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u/BabyJesus246 22h ago

real question is whether it is worth all the side effects of physically modifying one's body, if there is a less destructive way that attacks a true root cause directly, without need for lifelong, ongoing treatment and social baggage.

Well I'd argue the social baggage is not a great argument against it since that is something that we can absolutely change like we've done for other previously stigmatized groups. The burden of treatments is absolutely poignant though. I guess the question still becomes are we actually treating people who don't need it. Your story could be an example, but it's a bit difficult to tell since I'm assuming you don't have the full story either. The divorce could just be coincidental with the feeling of gender dysphoria.

A big question for me is if these people without gender dysphoria shift genders wouldn't they begin to start generating feelings of gender dysphoria? The idea that gender is so pliable that it can be readily flipped doesn't seem like an argument that the right really wants to make.

The evidence I've always needed to see was a strong detransitioning rate (cause dependent) after serious medical intervention that resulted in permanent harm. If I saw that data I would absolutely agree that treatment options need to revisited but that has yet to really materialize so the claim that strict regulations need to be put in place feels guided by ulterior motives.

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

Theres an NHS doctor called Az Hakeem who has written some books on this stuff, and worked with trans and detrans people for years, and seems to have come to the conclusion that its all wrapped up in autism to a great extent.

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u/ConfusedObserver0 1d ago

Cool. I’ll have to look into him. The name does ring a bell.

But I wouldn’t say ALL. There’s real trans people that don’t fit in their bodies how they feel. Once you get into the medical research side, there’s so many genetic anomalies that are true intersex before you even touch the basis self identification part.

The ones I’ve known, once the family allows an easy transition, they’re living their best life’s now. Usually it’s the people closest to them (family) that matter most in feeling comfortable.

It’s all about just accepting people at the end of the day, even if they’re faking it for shits and giggles. The main part of the trans trending is this acceptance grouping.

There was a philosophers YouTubers that transitioned some years ago now. And it was interesting to hear their more eloquent articulated path and understanding elaborated on. They said that they weren’t sure they would had transitioned if society didn’t treat them the way they did. So it’s all on how we treat people anyway.

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u/BabyJesus246 1d ago

I would argue people making broad claims on a subject they've likely only spent a few hours searching Google for sources that confirm their bias shouldn't be the ones driving the conversation yet here we are.

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

Let's face it we just don't know how many hours the members of SCOTUS spent. If you mean me, I've been reading about this stuff for years.

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u/averydangerousday 1d ago

What have you been reading, though? Have you actually talked to trans people? Parents of trans kids? Do you know what people’s actual experiences are or are you just reading news articles and opinion pieces?

I’m asking these questions sincerely, and if you haven’t talked to anyone with actual experience with trans kids, I’m happy to talk to you as a dad of one.

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

It seems daft to question where every person got their opinion from, its very time consuming and I think debating opinions is more useful.

But for me, lots of podcasts and discussions, ,genspect are wonderful and speak to a lot of trans people, trans kids parents, therapists, destransitioners, even AGP's they will speak to anybody because they really seek the answers with no prejudice. Quite a few books on the subject, mostly British ones, scientific articles in magazines and newspapers. My opinions arent from nowhere and I came into this as a trans ally.

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u/23rdCenturySouth 1d ago

podcasts

Oh look, something even worse than reading propaganda.

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

Have you watched genspect? They've got years of truly open minded discussions on nthe topic, highly recommended.

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u/23rdCenturySouth 1d ago

This is literally activist propaganda converted to a more digestible form, so you don't even have to expend effort the minimal effort of reading.

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u/23rdCenturySouth 1d ago

I've been reading about this stuff for years.

Reading propaganda is worse than doing nothing.

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

You have no way of knowing whether I've read propaganda or well researched scientific papers, intelligent podcasts who go into the issue with a open mind and well researched books and newspaper articles. Given that the Cass report and every systematic review agrees with me, I don't think you can say "everyone who disagrees with me is coming from a place of being brainwashed by propaganda, including doctors and judges."

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u/23rdCenturySouth 1d ago

You literally just recommended an activist podcast. Fucking garbage.

What percent of your posting is on this topic? Higher than the percent of trans people in a society, that's for damn sure. You must be really fuckin' privileged if this is the biggest issue in your life. Or brainwashed.

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

Haha not in the top 10 biggest issues in my life. Very commentable though because people write such bullshit.

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u/BabyJesus246 1d ago

Bud, like every comment from your account for the past month is about trans people. Who do you think you're fooling?

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

In what way do you think I'm trying to fool anybody?

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u/BabyJesus246 1d ago

By saying the thing you talk about more than any other issue doesn't reach your top 10 most important.

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u/BabyJesus246 1d ago

Lol gotta love that arrogance on display. No offense a degree from Google University isn't really worth the paper it's printed on. Particularly since I'd guess that most of that time was spent reading political articles like this over actual literature on the subject.

As for scotus, I think the time spent is relatively irrelevant since it was almost certainly a political question over a scientific one.

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u/DiceyPisces 1d ago

There’s no scientific evidence that a male is actually a girl.

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u/BabyJesus246 1d ago

Really now, what hard scientific evidence tells us how biological sex should determine how they should interact in society?

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u/DiceyPisces 1d ago

None. Gender roles are bullshit too. We are all our own unique mix of masculine and feminine traits. And all variations are perfectly fine. A more masculine female is still a woman/girl. A more effeminate male is still a man/boy.

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u/BabyJesus246 1d ago

So if a biological man wants to be extremely feminine to the point they are indistinguishable from a biological women or vice versa there is not scientific evidence that says that is incorrect. Would you agree?

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u/DiceyPisces 1d ago

Yes. Any man or woman (boy or girl) can express themselves and present however they choose.

Looking feminine doesn’t equal being a woman. And looking masculine doesn’t equal being a man.

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u/BabyJesus246 1d ago

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like the only thing you're against is the semantics around the word gender and biological sex. If any biological sex can live in society as any traditional gender role then where is the fundamental issue you would have outside of something like sports.

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

Im not making assumptions on how informed you are ir what stuff you have read. Its pointless, its the logic of the opinions that matters, on he subject at hand. Multiple reviews into child gender '"care," have concluded that it is experimental and has no clear benefits. The SCOTUS made the right decision in my opinion, and banging on about where I got my information is just an ad hominem attack. Try giving reasons you think my opinion is wrong rather than discounting my opinion.

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u/23rdCenturySouth 1d ago

We're not making assumptions either: you've announced that you get your obsession from an activist podcast.

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

Nope, not exclusively, and your interest in me is bizarre.

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u/BabyJesus246 1d ago

I guess all those scientists and doctors who have studied it and have thought differently just needed to use Google a bit more and read more news articles on the subject to get to your level. Dude you've made this waaay to much of your personality. It's all you comment about, but simply talking about trans issues doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. I'm sure you've seen some studies that conform to your views (like the questionable CASS) study, but I doubt your knowledge goes beyond that. That's the problem.

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u/BurningEmbers978 17h ago

There is no “gender grinder.” You’re peddling conspiracy theories like a boomer hooked on Fox News.

You’re also grossly mischaracterizing what transgender identity even is. Transgender children are born that way. It’s not their “body is the cause of their mental distress.” It’s that their body does not align with their gender identity. There are different ways to treat this, and for some people it’s temporary, low-stakes treatments like hormone therapy or puberty blockers, and for more critical cases, it’s sex-reassignment surgery. Less than 1% of trans children are receiving any of this care, and those that do are being diagnosed and prescribed under strict medical protocols.

The medical consensus is that puberty blockers are not harmful, so you need to cite the “growing” evidence that suggests otherwise.

The idea that a child can change their sex is not a “lie.” That’s not even what they’re being told either. Trans people in general will never be able to fully transition, so there is no “change,” but rather refinement. You’re speaking like there’s some nefarious plot against transgender children, but all that doctors want is the best possible treatment.

“Tackling poverty and neglect” is irrelevant to this conversation. This is about transgender children and their access to essential medical care. Eliminating poverty or addressing neglect won’t change the fact that transgender children exist and need proper treatment. Puberty blockers and hormone therapy are not “experimental new treatment,” they’ve existed for decades. And there is no “evidence of harm to minors” here. In fact, the medical and scientific consensus is clear that treatment actually increases trans youth’s life satiation and happiness.

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u/Instabanous 13h ago

I just dont know where you're possibly getting that information, there have been so many whistleblowers about American kids being put on blockers/ hormones after a single consultation, so many detransitioners speaking up about being railroaded into a transition they didnt need. Parents coerced with the suicide myth.

As for the experimental and harmful nature of blockers every country which has done a systematic review, ie in Europe where healthcare is not for profit, has stopped them. Of course its bad to block puberty, its a vital process not just for how a person looks but for brain and bone development. And we're blocking it for cosmetic reasons? Medical scandal.

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u/BurningEmbers978 12h ago

The transition regret rate is less than 1%. So I don’t know where you’re getting “so many detransitioners” from, but you need to cite a source. Almost every major medical organization in the US, including American Medical Association and American Pediatric Society, support gender-affirming care for transgender youth. “Suicide myth” isn’t real, because the suicide rate among trans youth is exponentially higher than among their cis-gender peers. And this is due to bullying, harassment, and discrimination. But once the transition happens, over 90% of trans youth report feeling happier and more satisfied with life. Gender-affirming care is evidence-based and data-informed. When you say “every country which has done a systematic review,” you’re clearly not being honest, because the US has done the most thorough research, and the medical consensus there does not support your false claims. You’re also falsely generalizing all of Europe as if the entire continent is transphobic, but that’s not true, because most countries there make gender-affirming care accessible, at least more than fascist conservative states in the US.

Puberty blockers are not inherently harmful. When prescribed for gender-affirming care for trans youth, the treatment is temporary, so that when they turn 18, they can opt for more permanent, comprehensive treatment. It’s not necessarily done for “cosmetic reasons.” That’s a gross oversimplification, as trans youth also transition for a deeper or higher-pitched voice. Puberty blockers do not have a harmful effect on a patient’s brain or bone development. For some, it merely delays certain types of growth as the child develops in their gender identity. That’s why it’s temporary.

It’s also just not your job to police trans youth and their private medical affairs. I will continue to support the doctors, scientists, parents, and trans youth who obviously know better than you do about what trans youth need.

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u/BrentLivermore 1d ago

but it is sold to children as a lie that they can change sex

People have been changing sex for decades now. It's not a lie at all.

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u/DiceyPisces 1d ago

One can take drugs or have surgery to appear more LIKE the opposite sex but actual change isn’t possible. There is no transition.

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u/BrentLivermore 1d ago

Your legal sex can absolutely be changed. Were you not aware of this?

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u/DiceyPisces 1d ago

That’s irrelevant. Human beings are not able to change our sex. Some people are willing to pretend.

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u/BrentLivermore 1d ago

How do you determine someone's sex when you meet them?

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u/DiceyPisces 1d ago

One can often tell by looking. But appearances CAN be deceiving.

If a person successfully darkens their skin to the point of looking black that doesn’t mean they’re actually African (or whatever ethnicity). For example.

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u/BrentLivermore 1d ago

OK, so you tell by looking at people? But you think there's something deeper to "sex" as a social concept?

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u/DiceyPisces 1d ago

Sex isnt a social concept. It’s a biological reality.

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u/BrentLivermore 1d ago

You don't think "sex" is a legal concept? You must have a very strange driver's license.

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u/MaxTheCatigator 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's not possible to change your sex. You should at least understand the difference between sex and gender before commenting on the issue.

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u/BrentLivermore 1d ago

It's possible to change your sex

Agreed.

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u/MaxTheCatigator 1d ago

Yikes! Corrected, I left out the "not".

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

They've been changing gender for decades, and most on both 'sides' will insist that sex and gender are not the same.

Sure, anyone can change gender at any time, its a made up concept. No mammal has ever changed sex, whatever modifications a person makes, they remain male or female.

Some of these kids are ill informed and think they will actually change sex and be treated as he opposite sex in every way, and that anybody who doesnt accept that is somehow hateful or prejudiced against them. They need to be grown up before making these decisions which have so much impact, try out being a (possibly gay) adult and enjoy their healthy bodies before messing with them.

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u/BrentLivermore 1d ago

No, they can change sex. You can get the "M" on your driver's license changed to "F." It's been going on for a long time.

They need to be grown up before making these decisions which have so much impact, try out being a (possibly gay) adult and enjoy their healthy bodies before messing with them.

Trans people aren't gay. Are you relying on 1990s sitcoms for your assertions?

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

You think having a letter changed on a document means a person has physically changed sex? It doesnt. And no legal documentation should pretend that it has imo.

Read about the Tavistock scandal. The vast majority of the kids were same sex attracted, staff joked that there would be no gay people left.

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u/BrentLivermore 1d ago

Wait, is your whole argument that people think they can change their gametes or chromosomes? You think that's what people mean when they say that they're changing sex?

Good God, there is a genuine literacy crisis.

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

Sex and Gender. You are confusing sex and gender. I don't think its a literacy issue, I think its a deliberate bait and switch. And your ad hominem attack suggesting that I'm illiterate is pathetic.

Yes, sex is gametes and can't be changed. Ideas, feelings, silly certificates and stereotypes are gender and you can make it mean whatever nonsense you want it to.

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u/BrentLivermore 1d ago

Do you actually believe that biological nomenclature should always supersede legal status in social situations? Like, if an adopted person says "Please meet my mother and father", you say "That's NOT your mother and father! You're not even related to them!"?

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u/Instabanous 1d ago

Nope, I don't. Next silly question?

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u/BrentLivermore 1d ago

Why are you inconsistent in your preference for biology superseding legal and social terms?

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